Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: orcadian on December 24, 2018, 06:26:40 PM

Title: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on December 24, 2018, 06:26:40 PM
Hi folks,
Just got our 2015 Jazz SE home (you’ve been tango’d) and so far very impressed, even after having many Civics and more recently a Gen 2 CR-V Premiere.  Lots of other stuff (bikes and cars) still in the cupboard!
Anyway, I have an issue with the service book which is the point of my question.  The book has two dealer stamps, one at 9000 miles after about a year from new, then the service we asked for at purchase with 16000 ish miles last week.
This book looks very new and there is nothing written in the ‘Your Car’ section - no reg number, no vin number, no radio code, no PDI stamp - absolutely nothing! The empty dealer copy part is also still there.

I can’t believe that this is just shoddy paperwork by the supplying  dealer but more like a previously lost book.

The previous owner died and it took some time to sort out his estate so the book could have been misplaced.  All relatively OK, except for the fact that the first service is stamped with the original name of the Honda Dealership, whereas the second, although the same dealership is under their new name.

If this is a replacement, then they still have the old stamp, which is close to fraud or at least deception. 

Has anyone else ever had a service book with no information to tie it to a specific vehicle, which in my eyes renders the service history totally invalid? It could refer to absolutely any car.

I realise Honda keep computerised records of all work done, so we should be able to get the required info but if we ever sold the car, the buyer would not want to do that.

Yes, I should have checked but there was that much to do that day, I only checked the service stamps.

Obviously the holiday will now intervene so I can’t get back to them til NewYear.

Regards,
Ian

Footnote: although quite impressed with the 2012 Hybrid on offer, we think this is a better choice for not much more money.

Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: peteo48 on December 24, 2018, 09:30:32 PM
It does seem a bit odd and no I haven't had the exact set of circumstances you describe. First step would be to see what the seller of the vehicle has to say about this. On top of that, if the services have been done at a main dealer there should be a computer record on Honda's main database.
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on December 24, 2018, 11:35:26 PM
Hi peteo48,
Many thanks for the reply - yes I will speak to them as soon as they reopen after the hols and see what they have to say. We are both really pleased with the car and hadn’t realised just how far things had moved on. I won’t let this spoil our experience of what is an excellent car in all respects.
I’ll post back with their side of the story but you can imagine a bit of wriggling taking place.

Regards,
Ian
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: VicW on December 25, 2018, 09:48:42 AM
I have never had any real problems with service records of Jazz's bought from Honda dealers except the failure to record oil changes on the CVT gearbox. Every time they have checked the records, which I have had shown to me, and the service book has been brought up to date.

Vic.
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on December 25, 2018, 01:29:02 PM
Thanks Vic,
If you get the chance, can you tell me if what has been entered in the ‘Your Car’ page in your service details (not the actual numbers of course!) and if the PDI box has been stamped.

Many thanks and all the very best,
Ian
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: Downsizer on December 26, 2018, 10:23:33 AM
When I bought mine new, the title page was completed and stamped by the dealer, and the salesman talked me through the PDI page, we both signed it and he then stamped and dated it.  I think this is standard practice, but where the original owner has died, locating the service book could obviously be difficult.
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on December 26, 2018, 11:12:13 AM
Thanks Downsizer,
Yes that was my understanding of what the supplying dealer had to do and as I said I fully understand the difficulty following the death of the original owner.  I could accept all this if I had been told before buying (we weren’t) but what I am very dissatisfied with is either the rather underhand way they have made a duplicate with no details or PDI info (if that is what has happened) or a very lax paperwork exercise of an important document in the beginning and not spotted at resale if this is actually the original.  With no tie up of the service book to the actual vehicle, I shall seek a fully documented explanation.  Yes, perhaps I am being pedantic but this is not just a pair of trousers we are talking about and doubt the Dealer or other purchaser would accept a service history from me which is worthless.

On the plus side we are both really pleased with the car which is almost as new in all respects, the car really speaks for itself conditionwise.  We still have our CR-V Premiere in case we didn’t get on with this smaller car but I can see it going in the Spring.

Thanks again,
Ian
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: olduser1 on December 26, 2018, 03:40:38 PM
Talk to your dealer and put your concerns to him in writing - keep a copy- ask to see the HPI/Experian check they carried out & give them a couple of days to rectify matters then take a route which satisfies your peace of mind.
I'm sure they will want to help you out.
Let the forum know how matters pan out.
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on December 26, 2018, 06:59:14 PM
Thanks olduser (me too!)
As I say, as soon as the hols are over, I need answers from them - I have an HPI report and am comfortable with the service stamp dates and mileages but need to know why there is no PDI stamp and nothing written in the vehicle details to connect it to our car - incompetent or verging on the fraudulent? - I’ll find out which soon enough!

I’ll definitely report back with the outcome.

Ian
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: sparky Paul on December 27, 2018, 10:56:06 PM
The only really satisfactory explanation would be if the book had been lost between registration and first service, but you would think the dealer would have completed the relevant entries. Dealers will happily supply blank service record books, for a fee of course, if you happen to misplace yours.

I did have a Vauxhall a long time ago which had all the service stamps in the book, including the PDI, but never had the vehicle particulars filled in. Perhaps this laxity still goes on at some dealers. Come to think of it, I might still have the book somewhere, the car was nicked off the driveway!  >:(
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: Jeangenie on December 28, 2018, 08:20:20 AM
I have been reading this thread with some interest since it is about 6 weeks until I get my new car. It strikes me that maybe the service book could not be found on the previous owners demise. The dealer has therefore populated a new book with the service history from Honda's computer record. Most subsequent owners are only interested in the service history. Not what was or wasn't done at the pre delivery inspection.
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on December 28, 2018, 08:38:34 AM
Hi folks,
Yes I am aware that they can ‘repopulate’ a service book from their computer records if one is lost and the loss in this case is to some extent understandable, however we should have been told this - a small point perhaps?  The issue I have is that if they have made a new book, then what would be the reason for reproducing the first stamp with a different pen and signature using the Dealership stamp with the company’s previous name before takeover, other than intent to deceive?  Then forgetting to put the vehicle details in so it becomes worthless in future.

Still love the car though - they have certainly moved on a bit in some areas.  It should be a pleasure to fill with fuel and check around the engine bay, were it not for the missing top coat of paint in those (and other) areas - I know this has been discussed before though.

Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: ColinS on December 28, 2018, 08:41:03 AM
This has prompted me to look at the service book for my HR-V which was delivered 3 weeks ago.  Nothing filled in anywhere.  I will be discussing it with them.
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on December 28, 2018, 11:06:25 AM
Hi,
Downsizer in reply#5 has it spot on as to what should have happened in both cases and the Dealer has a page to fill in and sign after explaining what the PDI involved.  Some salesmen, certainly not all, only see the commission and forget their legal obligations.  This is after all, part of a contract between buyer and seller.

I should find out later today in my case, let us know how you get on too.
Ian
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: sparky Paul on December 28, 2018, 12:22:40 PM
The issue I have is that if they have made a new book, then what would be the reason for reproducing the first stamp with a different pen and signature using the Dealership stamp with the company’s previous name before takeover, other than intent to deceive?

The only thing you can do is the ask the dealer if the book was indeed a recent replacement in order to complete the paperwork, although it would be easy for them to plead ignorance and suggest that any substitution must have occurred previous to the first service.

It all hinges upon the date the book was replaced, if indeed it was. Do you know if the same dealership was the the original supplying dealer? If not, it gives them another option for them to wash their hands of it all. Any print date tucked away anywhere on the service book?

If the book did indeed turn out to be a recent fabrication by the dealer, then I too would find the use of the two different ink stamps highly suspect.

Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on December 28, 2018, 12:38:29 PM
Hi Paul,
Yes same dealership, even the Head salesman said he had sold the car new to the Gent who passed away, so one owner, just the dealership name changed when they were taken over - same premises though!

Ian
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: sparky Paul on December 28, 2018, 08:35:25 PM
Yes same dealership, even the Head salesman said he had sold the car new to the Gent who passed away, so one owner, just the dealership name changed when they were taken over - same premises though!

I guess they could still say it was either not filled in at the beginning, or it was replaced early on, or maybe they will admit to replacing it when it was sold back to them. If the latter is the case and they have indeed used different stamps, it does smell of fakery, rather than simple replacement.

However, unless you can get an admission, or you can somehow determine the age of the service books, it won't be easy to prove anything either way.
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on December 29, 2018, 11:19:07 AM
Can’t do anything until Monday as the salesman is away,  I don’t think Mother Honda would be pleased with any scenario they could put forward - not filled in from new, then not checked on resale OR replaced and stamped with previous name stamp.
Ian
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on January 01, 2019, 01:38:33 PM
Happy New Year to one and all,
Just a quick update on the service book; finally got to talk to people at the Dealers with my concerns, after speaking to his colleagues, the salesman assured me that it was not a made up copy but definitely the original.  So why is there no vehicle info, PDI stamp and signature in the book?  ‘Must have been overlooked’ says he.  WHAT! TWICE!  was my reply.  Anyway, he wanted me to send it back to them, which I declined and said I would take it in when I next have a trip down there as I couldn’t trust them to make sure sure I got it back safely, they might forget to address the envelope (yes, perhaps a bit sarcastic).  I know I should just let the matter drop but feel like sending it Honda for them to fill in the details from their computer and hopefully play hell with the dealer.

Any thoughts?

Ian
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: sparky Paul on January 01, 2019, 07:19:38 PM
finally got to talk to people at the Dealers with my concerns, after speaking to his colleagues, the salesman assured me that it was not a made up copy but definitely the original.  So why is there no vehicle info, PDI stamp and signature in the book?  ‘Must have been overlooked’ says he.  WHAT! TWICE!  was my reply.

Well, I'm not surprised, although I'm not really sure how the can be so sure that it 'definitely the original'. Although it's most unsatisfactory for you, it's hard to prove otherwise, and probably does happen on a regular basis. That said, service records are also faked on a regular basis too, so it will always look suspect.

If it really bothers you, and I suspect it does, a carefully worded letter to Honda CS might be worthwhile. I would certainly repeat the assurances given to you by the dealership, and the explanation they have given, expressing your disappointment that a Honda dealership can be so lax as to allow a car to be sold new with a completely blank service book, and no evidence of a PDI.

It would be interesting to see if Honda simply instructed the dealership to fill in the missing bits, or say that it can't be altered. The missing PDI should be on the computer record, and I would also like to see the rest of the information recorded against the car, to make sure it all tallies with the incomplete service book you have.
Title: Re: New to us Gen 3 Jazz SE
Post by: orcadian on January 01, 2019, 09:40:57 PM
Hello again Paul,
This situation only confirms my long held opinions of car dealers - even the large franchised ones and I still cannot really see a good outcome.  If I let them enter the details in my book and stamp the PDI page, that stamp will show their present name, whereas the first service has the original name and the service carried before purchase has the new name.  So much for an ‘Approved’ used car.  I always chuckle to myself when I see the term ‘Guaranteed Used Cars’. Yes, they can guarantee they have been used!
Think Honda should pass judgement on this one but I’ll inform the Dealer of my intention.

Ian