Author Topic: Keyless entry.  (Read 2937 times)

Jocko

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Keyless entry.
« on: January 28, 2019, 07:23:45 AM »
Interesting article about the dangers of keyless entry.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47023003

John Ratsey

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2019, 08:55:42 AM »
Also see this detailed Which? report https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/01/how-easy-is-your-car-to-steal/ . Which? also asked the manufacturers what they were doing to combat the problem. "Honda declined to comment."
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

richardfrost

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2019, 08:59:03 AM »
Another technology which has not been properly thought through. I have keyless on my Rav4 and mostly it is great, but I need to make sure I lelave my keys at the back of the house at night. A colleague at work had hers and her husband's car both stolen in one go a couple of weeks back.

At the moment, I am not too worried as mostly they are targeting high performance or high street cred cars, but the time will come when every scrote under the sun has access to this kit and then all keyless cars will be fair game.

trebor1652

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2019, 09:52:46 AM »
I wonder why the manufacturers don't just make the remote's with an on/off switch?
On my last holiday abroad I took the batteries out of the two remote's.

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John Ratsey

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2019, 10:38:21 AM »
I wonder why the manufacturers don't just make the remote's with an on/off switch?
That's a far too simple solution for the manufacturers to have thought of it! Perhaps you could patent it?
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

culzean

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2019, 04:02:50 PM »
I have read forums where the keyless system has caused the car battery to go flat,  especially where fob is left too close to car.  In any case systems like alarms and keyless entry ( anything that never properly shuts down and is monitoring ) normally draw parasitic current from battery and even 100milliamp constant drain can be the difference between a car that is not used every day starting or not.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Barky

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2019, 07:06:11 PM »
Just one of the reasons I didn't buy a Jazz EX.

culzean

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2019, 08:22:56 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47721590

so after decades of falling vehicle thefts due to chip-in-key and immobilisers we are seeing a sharp rise due to 'convenient keyless entry' - well it turns out that what is convenient for the driver is also very convenient for the criminal.  The most secure system was the infra-red key fob I had on my original Civic, the beam went straight from keyfob to a receiver by the rear view mirror,  just like the remote on your TV,  the next generation had a radio signal for the lock and unlock which could be intercepted by anyone with 50 meters of the car, this allowed them to unlock car and mute alarm but still needed the key with chip to start it,  now we have a system that is worse than either of those, where crims can unlock and start the car without the fob or a key with a chip in it -   progress or what ?

and this is shocking that you can leave car running and walk away,  also with hybrid cars the engine can start up after you left the car - madness for the sake of 'convenience'..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44124546
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 08:25:35 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2019, 08:31:55 AM »
Makes me realise that my Mk 1 S, that needs the key in the lock to open and lock, is not so bad after all. Mind you, yesterday I locked car and went away for an hour, leaving the front passenger window open. Car had just been washed and they were sparkling! My old Cavalier wound the windows up automatically, when you locked the doors.

guest7494

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2019, 09:10:53 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47721590

so after decades of falling vehicle thefts due to chip-in-key and immobilisers we are seeing a sharp rise due to 'convenient keyless entry' - well it turns out that what is convenient for the driver is also very convenient for the criminal.  The most secure system was the infra-red key fob I had on my original Civic, the beam went straight from keyfob to a receiver by the rear view mirror,  just like the remote on your TV,  the next generation had a radio signal for the lock and unlock which could be intercepted by anyone with 50 meters of the car, this allowed them to unlock car and mute alarm but still needed the key with chip to start it,  now we have a system that is worse than either of those, where crims can unlock and start the car without the fob or a key with a chip in it -   progress or what ?

and this is shocking that you can leave car running and walk away,  also with hybrid cars the engine can start up after you left the car - madness for the sake of 'convenience'..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44124546


A simple solution would be if these fobs were fitted with an ON/OFF switch, not to much brain power required to design it.Or of course the battery could be removed, but what a faff, alternatively these scrotes should be eliminated one way or the other, within the law of course????? but do not hold your breath.
If any one here reading this can suggest a solution to an ON/OFF solution that would be great.
Other than that sitting crossed leg cradling a sawn off shot gun in your lap all night
could be a permanent solution, but of course this would be illegal?? much like stealing other peoples hard earned items.

culzean

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2019, 09:56:33 AM »
https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/automotive/rfid-ignition-system2.htm

There are two sorts of systems,  passive and active RFID ( radio frequency ID ) the passive chips don't need a battery, they are like the tags that shops put on expensive items that cause the alarm to go off if you try to walk out of the shop without paying ( or sometimes you paid but assistant did not remove the tag ).  When you press key fob to unlock door etc that uses batteries in the fob to send a signal to the car electronics,  but the car electronics are 'always on watch' for the passive chip as as well and when the chip is interrogated by the car electronics a small coil ( like one half of a transformer or the bit in your smartphone that allows contactless charging) provides enough power to the chip to enable it to reply to the car system ( this is often used to track parts in industry,  where the RFID chips are passive and are activated when a scanner gets near,  like the microchips they insert in the necks of pets to enable scanner to read their ID number ).  So maybe the on-off switch is not the answer.  Some cars have keyless entry cards like a credit card,  and they are definitely passive RFID as there is no battery on the card.  Keep the keyfob in a metal tin ( steel or Mu metal are best ) or one of the many 'faraday cage' wallets now on the market for the purpose and this stops radio waves reaching the fob, could also put it upstairs at back of house or in the fridge or microwave ( but if the microwave is turned on with keyfob inside the fob will be destroyed in nano-seconds ) -  I know people who just throw their keys on the hall table or hang their coat in hallway with keys in the pocket,  the thieves just love these people,  makes their job easy-peasy..
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 09:58:42 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest7494

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2019, 10:50:22 AM »
https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/automotive/rfid-ignition-system2.htm

There are two sorts of systems,  passive and active RFID ( radio frequency ID ) the passive chips don't need a battery, they are like the tags that shops put on expensive items that cause the alarm to go off if you try to walk out of the shop without paying ( or sometimes you paid but assistant did not remove the tag ).  When you press key fob to unlock door etc that uses batteries in the fob to send a signal to the car electronics,  but the car electronics are 'always on watch' for the passive chip as as well and when the chip is interrogated by the car electronics a small coil ( like one half of a transformer or the bit in your smartphone that allows contactless charging) provides enough power to the chip to enable it to reply to the car system ( this is often used to track parts in industry,  where the RFID chips are passive and are activated when a scanner gets near,  like the microchips they insert in the necks of pets to enable scanner to read their ID number ).  So maybe the on-off switch is not the answer.  Some cars have keyless entry cards like a credit card,  and they are definitely passive RFID as there is no battery on the card.  Keep the keyfob in a metal tin ( steel or Mu metal are best ) or one of the many 'faraday cage' wallets now on the market for the purpose and this stops radio waves reaching the fob, could also put it upstairs at back of house or in the fridge or microwave ( but if the microwave is turned on with keyfob inside the fob will be destroyed in nano-seconds ) -  I know people who just throw their keys on the hall table or hang their coat in hallway with keys in the pocket,  the thieves just love these people,  makes their job easy-peasy..


Very informative and thank you,
 But no battery or a switched off battery would make life a *********** for a thieving little scrotes intent on stealing your car,
So on off switch would have been a SIMPLE THING for Honda Honchos to have incorporated in this annoying key fob. at a very minimal cost  to the purchaser.
To eliminate this nuisance of key fob protection etc and as I am a person that likes to beat the system and Amazon etc,

To any one who is interested!!!!
I used an empty cat food satchet washed out naturally,
Wrapped it in several Layers of Foil neatly of Course.
Then Wrapped this all in a Thick Wide Plastic Parcel Tape.
Bingo I stood beside the car no reaction at all,I pressed the container with fob inside Tightly to door handle, no reaction from car.
This a cheap efficient and Neat solution this resulted in a small pouch measuring 4inches by 5inches approx  this enabled a small turn over for top of pouch with fob inside,I have been using this at night for at least a year and it is still in good nick.
Let us know how you get on if inclined that is.

Jocko

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2019, 11:14:37 AM »
I used an empty cat food satchet washed out naturally,
Wrapped it in several Layers of Foil neatly of Course.
Then Wrapped this all in a Thick Wide Plastic Parcel Tape.
£1.95 + free delivery.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storage-Blocker-Portable-Shielding-Blocking/dp/B07PVJLTTD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2CTA6OXAYTCS3&keywords=rfid+wallet+for+car+keys&qid=1553771583&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid+wallet%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-3

guest7494

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Re: Keyless entry.
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2019, 01:16:05 PM »
I used an empty cat food satchet washed out naturally,
Wrapped it in several Layers of Foil neatly of Course.
Then Wrapped this all in a Thick Wide Plastic Parcel Tape.
£1.95 + free delivery.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storage-Blocker-Portable-Shielding-Blocking/dp/B07PVJLTTD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2CTA6OXAYTCS3&keywords=rfid+wallet+for+car+keys&qid=1553771583&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid+wallet%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-3


wow!!!!!
 what a bargain direct from CHINA with up to nearly a month delivery dates,and NO Reviews yet?? someone could have stolen your  car by then. And nearly £2 as well no thanks rather have the 2 Quid in my wee pocket/sporran

Jocko

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