Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Jocko on January 28, 2019, 07:23:45 AM
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Interesting article about the dangers of keyless entry.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47023003 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47023003)
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Also see this detailed Which? report https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/01/how-easy-is-your-car-to-steal/ (https://www.which.co.uk/news/2019/01/how-easy-is-your-car-to-steal/) . Which? also asked the manufacturers what they were doing to combat the problem. "Honda declined to comment."
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Another technology which has not been properly thought through. I have keyless on my Rav4 and mostly it is great, but I need to make sure I lelave my keys at the back of the house at night. A colleague at work had hers and her husband's car both stolen in one go a couple of weeks back.
At the moment, I am not too worried as mostly they are targeting high performance or high street cred cars, but the time will come when every scrote under the sun has access to this kit and then all keyless cars will be fair game.
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I wonder why the manufacturers don't just make the remote's with an on/off switch?
On my last holiday abroad I took the batteries out of the two remote's.
Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk
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I wonder why the manufacturers don't just make the remote's with an on/off switch?
That's a far too simple solution for the manufacturers to have thought of it! Perhaps you could patent it?
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I have read forums where the keyless system has caused the car battery to go flat, especially where fob is left too close to car. In any case systems like alarms and keyless entry ( anything that never properly shuts down and is monitoring ) normally draw parasitic current from battery and even 100milliamp constant drain can be the difference between a car that is not used every day starting or not.
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Just one of the reasons I didn't buy a Jazz EX.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47721590
so after decades of falling vehicle thefts due to chip-in-key and immobilisers we are seeing a sharp rise due to 'convenient keyless entry' - well it turns out that what is convenient for the driver is also very convenient for the criminal. The most secure system was the infra-red key fob I had on my original Civic, the beam went straight from keyfob to a receiver by the rear view mirror, just like the remote on your TV, the next generation had a radio signal for the lock and unlock which could be intercepted by anyone with 50 meters of the car, this allowed them to unlock car and mute alarm but still needed the key with chip to start it, now we have a system that is worse than either of those, where crims can unlock and start the car without the fob or a key with a chip in it - progress or what ?
and this is shocking that you can leave car running and walk away, also with hybrid cars the engine can start up after you left the car - madness for the sake of 'convenience'..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44124546
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Makes me realise that my Mk 1 S, that needs the key in the lock to open and lock, is not so bad after all. Mind you, yesterday I locked car and went away for an hour, leaving the front passenger window open. Car had just been washed and they were sparkling! My old Cavalier wound the windows up automatically, when you locked the doors.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47721590
so after decades of falling vehicle thefts due to chip-in-key and immobilisers we are seeing a sharp rise due to 'convenient keyless entry' - well it turns out that what is convenient for the driver is also very convenient for the criminal. The most secure system was the infra-red key fob I had on my original Civic, the beam went straight from keyfob to a receiver by the rear view mirror, just like the remote on your TV, the next generation had a radio signal for the lock and unlock which could be intercepted by anyone with 50 meters of the car, this allowed them to unlock car and mute alarm but still needed the key with chip to start it, now we have a system that is worse than either of those, where crims can unlock and start the car without the fob or a key with a chip in it - progress or what ?
and this is shocking that you can leave car running and walk away, also with hybrid cars the engine can start up after you left the car - madness for the sake of 'convenience'..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44124546
A simple solution would be if these fobs were fitted with an ON/OFF switch, not to much brain power required to design it.Or of course the battery could be removed, but what a faff, alternatively these scrotes should be eliminated one way or the other, within the law of course????? but do not hold your breath.
If any one here reading this can suggest a solution to an ON/OFF solution that would be great.
Other than that sitting crossed leg cradling a sawn off shot gun in your lap all night
could be a permanent solution, but of course this would be illegal?? much like stealing other peoples hard earned items.
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https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/automotive/rfid-ignition-system2.htm
There are two sorts of systems, passive and active RFID ( radio frequency ID ) the passive chips don't need a battery, they are like the tags that shops put on expensive items that cause the alarm to go off if you try to walk out of the shop without paying ( or sometimes you paid but assistant did not remove the tag ). When you press key fob to unlock door etc that uses batteries in the fob to send a signal to the car electronics, but the car electronics are 'always on watch' for the passive chip as as well and when the chip is interrogated by the car electronics a small coil ( like one half of a transformer or the bit in your smartphone that allows contactless charging) provides enough power to the chip to enable it to reply to the car system ( this is often used to track parts in industry, where the RFID chips are passive and are activated when a scanner gets near, like the microchips they insert in the necks of pets to enable scanner to read their ID number ). So maybe the on-off switch is not the answer. Some cars have keyless entry cards like a credit card, and they are definitely passive RFID as there is no battery on the card. Keep the keyfob in a metal tin ( steel or Mu metal are best ) or one of the many 'faraday cage' wallets now on the market for the purpose and this stops radio waves reaching the fob, could also put it upstairs at back of house or in the fridge or microwave ( but if the microwave is turned on with keyfob inside the fob will be destroyed in nano-seconds ) - I know people who just throw their keys on the hall table or hang their coat in hallway with keys in the pocket, the thieves just love these people, makes their job easy-peasy..
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https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/automotive/rfid-ignition-system2.htm
There are two sorts of systems, passive and active RFID ( radio frequency ID ) the passive chips don't need a battery, they are like the tags that shops put on expensive items that cause the alarm to go off if you try to walk out of the shop without paying ( or sometimes you paid but assistant did not remove the tag ). When you press key fob to unlock door etc that uses batteries in the fob to send a signal to the car electronics, but the car electronics are 'always on watch' for the passive chip as as well and when the chip is interrogated by the car electronics a small coil ( like one half of a transformer or the bit in your smartphone that allows contactless charging) provides enough power to the chip to enable it to reply to the car system ( this is often used to track parts in industry, where the RFID chips are passive and are activated when a scanner gets near, like the microchips they insert in the necks of pets to enable scanner to read their ID number ). So maybe the on-off switch is not the answer. Some cars have keyless entry cards like a credit card, and they are definitely passive RFID as there is no battery on the card. Keep the keyfob in a metal tin ( steel or Mu metal are best ) or one of the many 'faraday cage' wallets now on the market for the purpose and this stops radio waves reaching the fob, could also put it upstairs at back of house or in the fridge or microwave ( but if the microwave is turned on with keyfob inside the fob will be destroyed in nano-seconds ) - I know people who just throw their keys on the hall table or hang their coat in hallway with keys in the pocket, the thieves just love these people, makes their job easy-peasy..
Very informative and thank you,
But no battery or a switched off battery would make life a *********** for a thieving little scrotes intent on stealing your car,
So on off switch would have been a SIMPLE THING for Honda Honchos to have incorporated in this annoying key fob. at a very minimal cost to the purchaser.
To eliminate this nuisance of key fob protection etc and as I am a person that likes to beat the system and Amazon etc,
To any one who is interested!!!!
I used an empty cat food satchet washed out naturally,
Wrapped it in several Layers of Foil neatly of Course.
Then Wrapped this all in a Thick Wide Plastic Parcel Tape.
Bingo I stood beside the car no reaction at all,I pressed the container with fob inside Tightly to door handle, no reaction from car.
This a cheap efficient and Neat solution this resulted in a small pouch measuring 4inches by 5inches approx this enabled a small turn over for top of pouch with fob inside,I have been using this at night for at least a year and it is still in good nick.
Let us know how you get on if inclined that is.
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I used an empty cat food satchet washed out naturally,
Wrapped it in several Layers of Foil neatly of Course.
Then Wrapped this all in a Thick Wide Plastic Parcel Tape.
£1.95 + free delivery.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storage-Blocker-Portable-Shielding-Blocking/dp/B07PVJLTTD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2CTA6OXAYTCS3&keywords=rfid+wallet+for+car+keys&qid=1553771583&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid+wallet%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-3 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storage-Blocker-Portable-Shielding-Blocking/dp/B07PVJLTTD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2CTA6OXAYTCS3&keywords=rfid+wallet+for+car+keys&qid=1553771583&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid+wallet%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-3)
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I used an empty cat food satchet washed out naturally,
Wrapped it in several Layers of Foil neatly of Course.
Then Wrapped this all in a Thick Wide Plastic Parcel Tape.
£1.95 + free delivery.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storage-Blocker-Portable-Shielding-Blocking/dp/B07PVJLTTD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2CTA6OXAYTCS3&keywords=rfid+wallet+for+car+keys&qid=1553771583&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid+wallet%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-3 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Storage-Blocker-Portable-Shielding-Blocking/dp/B07PVJLTTD/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2CTA6OXAYTCS3&keywords=rfid+wallet+for+car+keys&qid=1553771583&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid+wallet%2Caps%2C192&sr=8-3)
wow!!!!!
what a bargain direct from CHINA with up to nearly a month delivery dates,and NO Reviews yet?? someone could have stolen your car by then. And nearly £2 as well no thanks rather have the 2 Quid in my wee pocket/sporran
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That was just the cheapest one - though not as cheap as yours. There were a ton of them that you could have next day delivery.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SAMFOLK-Blocker-Blocking-Security-Protector/dp/B07M83YP5B/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2534QS0W3COV0&keywords=rfid+key+pouch&qid=1553779328&refinements=p_76%3A419158031&rnid=419157031&rps=1&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/SAMFOLK-Blocker-Blocking-Security-Protector/dp/B07M83YP5B/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2534QS0W3COV0&keywords=rfid+key+pouch&qid=1553779328&refinements=p_76%3A419158031&rnid=419157031&rps=1&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1)
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That was just the cheapest one - though not as cheap as yours. There were a ton of them that you could have next day delivery.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/SAMFOLK-Blocker-Blocking-Security-Protector/dp/B07M83YP5B/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2534QS0W3COV0&keywords=rfid+key+pouch&qid=1553779328&refinements=p_76%3A419158031&rnid=419157031&rps=1&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/SAMFOLK-Blocker-Blocking-Security-Protector/dp/B07M83YP5B/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2534QS0W3COV0&keywords=rfid+key+pouch&qid=1553779328&refinements=p_76%3A419158031&rnid=419157031&rps=1&s=gateway&sprefix=rfid%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1)
Thanks for feedback but I do find this business of having to PURCHASE using good money to protect a car that should not require this fart a..... about in the first place and unless Honda sort the problem out I will not be purchasing Honda again or indeed any other vehicle 🚗 that provides this ludicrous laziness of touch the door handle etc to open a car door next time it will be a proper key in the ignition.if that is not possible then nowt I will not start on the rest of it as it will be a tirade for hours.
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And tonight's Beeb Ceefax news had an item about the keyless theft saga.
Does one really need to ask the question, who are the pillocks who come up with these?
Like electronic handbrakes, or probably more descriptively - electronic parking brake.
Anyone with one of those, with fwd or manual rwd, could you do the old get out of trouble on ice/snow by declutch and quick tug on the lever?
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And tonight's Beeb Ceefax news had an item about the keyless theft saga.
Does one really need to ask the question, who are the pillocks who come up with these?
Like electronic handbrakes, or probably more descriptively - electronic parking brake.
Anyone with one of those, with fwd or manual rwd, could you do the old get out of trouble on ice/snow by declutch and quick tug on the lever?
I agree, my brother didn't buy a Toyota Avensis estate because they had an electric parking brake, I know a couple of people who had Ford S Max with electric parking brake and it was in the garage every couple of months to get the thing fixed, it stuck on a few times and that was fun :o and all because car makers insisted on using totally unsuitable disc brakes on the rear wheels when drums are all that is required, they are trouble free and last for ever, but hey-ho when cars were rolling away because disc handbrake was letting go and numpties did not leave them in gear I guess they had to do something cheap and nasty to make up for short-sighted decision to use discs as a handbrake.
As for keyless entry, nothing wireless is ever secure - it seems silly that people are having to keep their keyfobs and cards in bulky wallets and fit steering wheel locks in this day and age, and its all because of the 'we do things because we can' that infects everything these days - I wonder how many Alexas have ended up in cupboards gathering dust once the initial novelty has worn off and the shortcomings become apparent ?
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And tonight's Beeb Ceefax news had an item about the keyless theft saga.
Does one really need to ask the question, who are the pillocks who come up with these?
Like electronic handbrakes, or probably more descriptively - electronic parking brake.
Anyone with one of those, with fwd or manual rwd, could you do the old get out of trouble on ice/snow by declutch and quick tug on the lever?
I agree, my brother didn't buy a Toyota Avensis estate because they had an electric parking brake, I know a couple of people who had Ford S Max with electric parking brake and it was in the garage every couple of months to get the thing fixed, it stuck on a few times and that was fun :o and all because car makers insisted on using totally unsuitable disc brakes on the rear wheels when drums are all that is required, they are trouble free and last for ever, but hey-ho when cars were rolling away because disc handbrake was letting go and numpties did not leave them in gear I guess they had to do something cheap and nasty to make up for short-sighted decision to use discs as a handbrake.
As for keyless entry, nothing wireless is ever secure - it seems silly that people are having to keep their keyfobs and cards in bulky wallets and fit steering wheel locks in this day and age, and its all because of the 'we do things because we can' that infects everything these days - I wonder how many Alexas have ended up in cupboards gathering dust once the initial novelty has worn off and the shortcomings become apparent ?
Regarding your comment “I wonder how many Alexas have ended up in cupboards gathering dust once the initial novelty has worn off and the shortcomings become apparent ?” I know this is off topic but just this once
You are absolutely correct I for one I have done just that ,not exactly in a cupboard yet ! but purchased on request by my two grandaughters “Grandad Can You” and the rest I am sure we have all done it.
But seriously you are spot on, as usual.
I do. not like the Alexa thing it is an intrusion to many.
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As for keyless entry, nothing wireless is ever secure - it seems silly that people are having to keep their keyfobs and cards in bulky wallets and fit steering wheel locks in this day and age, and its all because of the 'we do things because we can' that infects everything these days - I wonder how many Alexas have ended up in cupboards gathering dust once the initial novelty has worn off and the shortcomings become apparent ?
Amen to that.