Strange problem when driving backwards

[guest6384]

Hello Jazz owners,

I hope you can help me solve the problem with my Honda.
I own a 2009 Jazz with Manual Transmition.

Sometimes , when I drive backwards, and I don't release the clutch properly, the engine stops, and does not want to start any more.
When I rotate the key the first time the car makes 1/4 of rotation or so and then shuts down all electricity. After that when I rotate the key no effort to start can be heards. The car just shuts down all power.

There are only 2 ways to start it:

1. To wait for 45-60 min and then try again.
2. To push the car with the help of other people, and start it with releasing the clutch

The battery is OK. Does not show any signs of problems, headlights are working bright. Most of all the car often makes this problem, after working for 60 minutes or so.... I don't think it is a battery releated problem at all.
But always happens when I drive backwards.

It seems to me the car acts like there is some unburned fuel in the pistons, and some kind of protection prevents it from starting. Waits for the fuel to evaporate. My model uses iridium spark plugs.
Computer diagnosis shows nothing.

Please advise

Ilian

[guest6264]

Starter motor OK? Does it always start OK when your setting off?
Sounds like an electrical fault to me. Maybe a relay?
Does the check engine light come on?

[guest6384]

Yes, the car starts fine every morning, even in cold weather.
Nothing on the dashboard shows any problem.

I can't bring the car to a car mechanic, or repairs , because I cannot reproduce the problem there. It appears on a random basis.

Perhaps I can try with these bluetooth diagnosis gadgets, they show nothing on my tablet software, but probably I have to try when the problem occurs. ...

[culzean]

when you stall the engine with car going backwards it will kick a different way to when stalling going forward.  If engine starts OK when stalled going forward then it may well be a loose or broken cable that is being disturbed by engine kicking 'the wrong way'

[ColinS]

Sometimes , when I drive backwards, and I don't release the clutch properly, the engine stops, and does not want to start any more.

Does this also happen if you stall the car going forwards?

When I rotate the key the first time the car makes 1/4 of rotation or so and then shuts down all electricity. After that when I rotate the key no effort to start can be heards. The car just shuts down all power.

When you say it shuts down all power.  Do other electrical things work, radio, lights etc. or is everything dead?

There are only 2 ways to start it:
1. To wait for 45-60 min and then try again.

This may be the real clue if anyone knows what could reset after that time.

2. To push the car with the help of other people, and start it with releasing the clutch

And this would indicate that it is just the starter system (either mechanically or electrically) and that everything else is ok.

I don't know the answer but maybe replying to the above may give others pointers

[guest6384]

@culzean - it sounds logical, but if it is a cable, then why the car starts with pushing. After that if I stop it, it starts normally. I also tried just to push the car without trying to start it. It does not start with the key again, situation does not change.

@ColinS -
1. it never happened while driving forwards, only backwards, but still it could be a coincidence

2. When I rotate the key it shuts down everything, sometimes you can't even hear a click. When I get it back power is restored.

3. It seem like accidental fuel in the pistons, but as far as I read, it is very hard to achieve that with injection engine systems

4. A friend of mine had similar problem, a small part of his starter motor was missing brushes. The car works, but when you stop it, if the motor stops in the position where are the missing brushes, no current, no rotation , no start. But in my case it never happened on cold start. Only when parking.

[ColinS]

@culzean - it sounds logical, but if it is a cable, then why the car starts with pushing. After that if I stop it, it starts normally. I also tried just to push the car without trying to start it. It does not start with the key again, situation does not change.

Try pushing it next time and drop the clutch for a split second, not to start it but just to make the engine move slightly (or rocking the car while in gear).  I'm thinking that the starter motor may be locked in the engaged position and this would free it.  Now try it on the key.
It may also be that leaving it for 45-60 minutes allows it to cool down and disengage.

4. A friend of mine had similar problem, a small part of his starter motor was missing brushes. The car works, but when you stop it, if the motor stops in the position where are the missing brushes, no current, no rotation , no start. But in my case it never happened on cold start. Only when parking.

But this would not change after 45-60 minutes without any other factors changing.

[culzean]

There is no difference to the starter motor whether the car stalls while going forward of backwards,  in fact the motor is not engaged once engine is started. 

If the car starts normally after standing say overnight and also from a 'forward' stall (does it ?),  then starter motor cannot be the cause.  We all know the wiring loom is tight on the Jazz and cables sometimes break where it bends through bulkhead,  it may be the cable from the ignition key switch that powers the starter solenoid that is broken internally,  and this only shows when the engine kicks 'the wrong way'.

I don't think there is anything on the car 'cuts out' on a reverse stall and resets after a time of 45 to 60 minutes...

[madasafish]

All this sounds like a loose earth or live supply from the battery. In reverse, the torque through the gearbox is reversed so the engine shifts on its flexible mounts in the opposite direction to normal when going forward. That may be just enough to ensure a dodgy connection stops connecting.

Solution : check both battery connections for tightness and ensure all engine earths are properly tightened.

[guest1372]

I'm mostly agreeing with madasafish, although I think it's a more general wiring fault with an almost broken cable to a sensor rather than primary battery power.  If the ECU is left long enough without further faults maybe it resets the issue.

Definitely worth trying an OBDII code reader to see if there are any historic or logged faults.
--
TG

[guest6384]

Thanks once again for all the replies. My wife said that the car also made this problem once or twice when she was driving forward, not backwards. So I guess it is a coincidence. I don't know how to say it in English, but in my language we say "half-clutch" when you drive slowly balancing with the clutch and throttle pedals. It seems this kind of driving puts the car in this state.

Anyway 2 days ago the car could not start due to low battery, and temperatures just above 0. I took the battery home for some measurements. It was a goner, although it could start the car. That was the original YUASA battery just around 8 years old. I took BOSCH. Now I will see if the problem will disappear with the new battery, and post back here.

Cheers

[madasafish]

If the battery was clapped out and the voltage was low and the alternator is not charging much due to low engine speeds, and you have lights on  and other electrical drains on, the ECU might stop working..