Jazz Battery

[guest6373]

I am just borrowing a Honda Jazz at the moment and there is something I am amazed at.

Is it normal to be able to leave this car for weeks without using it and it still starts first time? How does it do this is it magic? Does it have a nuclear reactor or a ZPM?

My previous car a Megane I would be in big trouble if I left it for more than three or four days without driving and allowing the battery to recharge. And this was for a brand new battery!

Is the Honda Jazz normal for most cars that you can leave them for a long time without the battery going flat?

Just curious. I don't know whether my previous car was an abnormality or not? I suspect it may have been. Thankfully it has now been taken away and scrapped.

I am considering getting a Civic as a replacement but just using the Jazz in the meantime until I decide what I go for next.

Have been looking at Civic, Golf, Auris, Mazda 3, Focus, 1 Series.

Cheers,

John.

[guest1372]

Sounds normal for a healthy battery, a dying one won't last overnight.

All your possible car choices sound OK, but the Civic 9th Gen gets the same rear seats as the Jazz if carrying stuff is important to you.
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TG

[longlegpete]

We have to leave one of our Jazz's at the airport for up to 10 weeks sometimes and its starts fine, battery is only a year or so old so still holds it's charge well, ambient temperature will also make a differance, the fact that's its not French may also help 

[culzean]

Main thing that drains batteries when parked is car alarm system, also keyless entry can drain battery as it always has to be on 'duty' to pick up transponder when it gets near car - usually the gimmicky things that put standby drain on battery (even auto lights can or certainly used to drain battery,  as my mate found on his Civic - he had to make sure light switch was in off position or it could flatten his battery in less than 3 days).

[jazzygirl]

I have my Jazz 11 months now and am guilty of many short journeys and of leaving car undriven for over a week at a time on about 8 occasions.  Now my battery is complaining, flashing up warning signs and will not do the stop of engine when idle.  I have just done four runs of over 100 kms each in past two days but still the battery is unhappy and no stop when idle.  I hate thought of winter ahead and all demands on battery the season will demand.  I will be taking in for annual service shortly and wonder if the battery issue can be resolved or will I get a new one?

[culzean]

Standard Lead acid car batteries like to be kept in the top 20% of full charge, if a car battery is kept in a 'low state of charge' (less than 50 to 60%) for extended periods it changes the chemistry and the battery may not (probably will not) recover - so the battery can be considered permanently damaged. 

If I had a car that I did not use very often I would do what I do with motorbike over winter - buy an optimate battery charger (it comes with a plug and lead that stays connected to battery (plug can be tucked into grill when not being used,  they normally come with a click over waterproof cover),  it will trickle charge the battery and keep it in top condition) - you have to remember to unplug before driving off though.  Otherwise  a solar panel on the dash (but you have to connect it direct to battery as the cigarette lighter socket only connects to battery when ignition key  is in 'aux' position).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/OptiMate-4-Battery-charger-conditioner/dp/B000R5936U

[guest6316]

Yes the batteries soon go down probably for a variety of reasons some of which have been mentioned in this thread.
My car was idle for 8 days, started fine but idle stop was out of action for about 10 miles, cured by running with headlights on.

[jazzygirl]

I suppose garage at service will diagnose if beyond point of no return.  I don't suppose this is covered by warranty.
 Can they top up with some charger in a garage over a morning's service time?

No joy with solar as northfacing and overshadowed driveway.  Just disappointed that four long runs in two days and it is still unhappy.... well they were long runs for me.  I don't think I can rig up a trickle charge set up as no electric connection handy.  I suppose one could remove the battery entirely and leave somewhere suitable (which I dont have)  to charge.   If left for a week, how many miles of open road would it need to cheer it up? 

Why would having full beam on help to boost battery?  The garage said to me also not to knock off air conditioning.  I will leave it in to them during the week.

Thanks for replies ... and yes I remember this topic being covered elsewhere. Must go look up and treat next battery better!

[guest6316]

This doesn't solve your unique problem, but you asked why having headlights on helped.(Not full beam just headlights).

My problem was that the idle stop feature wasn't working because there wasn't enough charge in the battery(it wasn't flat). Turning the lights on makes the alternator 'work harder' so after a few miles sufficient charge was there to allow idle stop to start working again. It was a tip from dealership.

[culzean]

The trouble with modern cars they are too smart for their own good,  and turn alternator output down in response to load on electrical system and also load on engine (when engine is under load they want to improve mpg by turning your cars life support down to its lowest setting,  will also turn aircon off for periods of starting and high load,  but that makes sense).  What this means in real life is that unless the electrical system is seeing a load (headlights, rear window heater, or similar) it will tell the alternator to go into snooze mode - even though the battery is low on charge.

I don't know if car system measures the charge going into battery and the power that has been  drawn back out to work out how much charge is in battery (like your mobile phone tries to do LOL) rather than measuring the battery terminal voltage which would not be helpful.

taking battery off is a bit drastic as you will lose settings and keep resetting ECU etc.

If you don't have electrical supply local to car  you can still fit a little solar panel remote from the car (must be somewhere you can face it south) on a long cable and pop the lead under the bonnet (solar panel should have a reverse diode fitted to stop battery discharging when it is dark and the panel output voltage falls below battery voltage).

[John Ratsey]

My problem was that the idle stop feature wasn't working because there wasn't enough charge in the battery(it wasn't flat). Turning the lights on makes the alternator 'work harder' so after a few miles sufficient charge was there to allow idle stop to start working again. It was a tip from dealership.

Going slightly off-topic here but my experience of the auto idle stop on the Mk 3 suggests that it only checks the battery status when the engine is started. Start the car and drive 100 miles or more and auto idle stop won't work if the battery was slightly discharged at the start of the journey. However, if the engine is turned off and on again after a couple of miles (eg a stop at the petrol station) then the auto idle stop will be fine as the battery was topped up in those couple of miles before the restart.

Back on topic, while a solar panel needs sunshine for maximum output, it will give some output if it receives some light. A panel on the dashboard facing the sky is better than nothing and something like this http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/solar-powered-12v-24w-battery-trickle-charger-n59fu should be sufficient.

[jazzygirl]

Interesting points, thank you all for contributions.

 I will look into the solar option but know it will not be optimum especially going into winter with longer shadows from house and neighbours tree that hangs over my drive        I don't have much choice about where to park up the car.

Being lazy here to go check the bible, but can anyone tell me if a solar charger can be connected into the dashboard or will it need to link direct to battery? 

I suppose a Honda replacement battery is the best option if need to go that route or is there a better brand about?  So the garage will not diagnose the power level in battery?  what about one of the specialist outlets that sell batteries? 

The battery is such a vital bit of car!

[culzean]

I would get Yuasa battery,  especially the Calcium or Silver,  which have high power output and low self discharge (every batteries lose power internally,  the lower you can make this internal leakage the better because battery will keep charge longer).

The cigarette / power socket is only normally connected to battery when ignition key is in and turned (as are most things on the car).  TG may know of a suitable connection.

Maybe you could have the 'Optimate' style plug under the bonnet and just connect 'remote' solar charger to that - the solar panels are weather proof so you could mount it in the open in the sunniest place you can find.  I have seen people mount a charger on the dash and run a cable out through the door seal and under the bonnet,  that may be OK where car will not be used for a while but pretty inconvenient if you use car even once or twice a week.

Battery testing machines are notoriously unreliable in their results as they neither draw enough current (can take several hundred amps to start a car) or for long enough to check battery capacity.

[VicW]

This may be of some help in making a decision.
We have a solar powered fish pond aerator that works even on days like today when it is pouring with rain so it is possible that one designed for battery charging may be suitable for your purpose. I will amend this post by saying that the fish pond solar panel is about 12cm square and produces a max of about 5v so one suitable for a car battery would be noticeably bigger to produce about 14v in poor light.

Vic.

[guest1372]

The cigarette / power socket is only normally connected to battery when ignition key is in and turned (as are most things on the car).  TG may know of a suitable connection.

Yes, cigarette lighter socket only connected when key is in ACC or higher.  The only permanent 12v wires inside the cabin that I can remember are fairly well buried behind trim.  All the engine compartment fuses are permanently connected to the battery but losses in the cables could reduce effectiveness.  Most car solar panels also come with clips for a direct battery connection which may be best but less convenient. 

I have a cheap one that had quite a decent output when measured, but only half when behind glass.  Used it to keep the MX5 topped up in the garage but switched to an Oxford intelligent charger.

I would expect a car driven weekly should be able to hold enough battery charge to start, unless there is a fault with the battery, there is some leakage to earth or some accessory is draining it.
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TG