Servicing

[JohnAlways]

Hi

I had my 25K miles service yesterday on my 2013 1.2S +AC GE.
It has steel wheels and wheel trims and is completely standard.

I have spent 25 years in the motor trade in cars and commercials as a mechanic but don't really get my hands too dirty anymore as that was a previous life.
At the main dealers yesterday (and don't read this as a complaint) the service technician attended to my car just outside where I was sitting with only a large window between the workshop and the waiting area.
Whilst the safety check and oil change, pollen filter was methodically done one thing that struck me being "Old School" is that whilst wheel bearing play, binding of brakes etc was all done quite thoroughly not one wheel was removed.
The checking of the brake pads on the outside were done with a torch and a squint through the holes in the trims and rims and I suppose visibility is also obtainable from withing the rim dish from under the car whilst on the ramp?
The report came back that all was ok apart from smearing wipers (two years old so I don't doubt it).
I suppose gone are the days of lubing seat runners and doors but to me not removing wheels to do a proper brake component check a little lacking. I do expect my pads to last 60 - 70K miles as I anticipate when driving but the dealer doesn't know that or....  do they they last that long even on the front with strong braking being the norm?
They are friendly enough there but now the weather is warming up I feel inclined at least to drop off one front wheel and have a quick check for peace of mind. With 12.5K servicing I would want a lot of pad to be left so later in the depths of South West France i don't get that horrible grating noise. 

[madasafish]

Removing wheels to check pads went out decades ago: .

And modern pads have wear indicators which make a noise before pads are to the metal..

[JohnAlways]

Hi Madasafish
I did say I was old school. Anyway thanks for that it has put my mind at rest.

Just out of curiosity, what happens these days where cars have drum brakes on the rear?

Regards
John

[culzean]

Removing wheels to check pads went out decades ago: .

And modern pads have wear indicators which make a noise before pads are to the metal..

Audible wear indicator makes a noise at about 1.6mm,  but I never let mine get that low, and I still prefer to take wheels off and check pads (and everything else in there, to see if anything leaking or loose)and check if pads are wearing unevenly, which is a symptom of tight bearings on equalisation pins.

[Jazzdriver]

Some fast-fit type places do brakes and will check them while you wait and let you have a good luck yourself.  A charge would be appropriate if it is just a precaution, but it would not cost much.

[culzean]

Some fast-fit type places do brakes and will check them while you wait and let you have a good luck yourself.  A charge would be appropriate if it is just a precaution, but it would not cost much.

Sorry if I sound cynical about fast fit places,  I took my car to ATS (who actually have one of the better reputations for honesty and skill) to have a couple of new tyres.  The fitter said do you want us to fit new front pads as the other are getting low,  but I knew car had only done about 20K since new.  Now I don't mind getting my hands dirty and finding out how things work first hand so I declined and said I'll see to them.  On the strength of his observations I went to local Honda and bought new pads (something that will get used and has long shelf life) - when I did take the wheels off the pads were fine,  with around 6mm of material,  they actually lasted to over 40K.   Same thing has happened to my wife,  I checked out 'worn' parts and they were fine.   

I have never been to a workshop or garage in last 10 years that will let customers into workshop area,  they are all scared of people getting hurt, insurance, health and safety etc ( but maybe H&S just an excuse for not wanting people to see what they are doing).   

[culzean]

Just out of curiosity, what happens these days where cars have drum brakes on the rear?
Regards
John

The drum brake linings last at least 100K and make a far better handbrake than a rear disc, they don't give a moments trouble and they don't get corroded  and seize up - that's what happens - but that is progress for you.

[JohnAlways]

Hi all

Thanks for the replies and thoughts.

So it looks like it would be a good option once in every three years or so to actually  clean up of brake parts and ensuring nothing is seizing, lubricate were applicable and generally keep on top of things in addition to routine dealer servicing.

Not sure what Culzean means as my Note had squeaky springs in the drums (noticeable when hand brake pulled up and released) and that only stopped when the wheel cylinders leaked so rear drums off to me is a no brainer. But I do understand where he is coming from and much of the essential maintenance items of yesteryear are no longer needed or even part of car design. My last set of pads on the Note lasted 86K miles and I only changed those because the discs were knackered, I am light on brakes! Never buying another Note all the same though it never gave me any real trouble (1.5Dci Renault engine).  Thanks for the advice on the brakes, have it sorted in my old brain now. Regards John

[culzean]

Have had quite a few Honda cars and never had a problem with rear drums.  Plenty of posts on this and other forums about problems with excessive rear brake pad wear (due to discs getting rusty and grinding away pads I guess) and calipers seizing up, handbrakes not holding etc.    Rear discs are notorious for not holding,  the answer for some was the 'electric handbrake' but my brother in law had one on his Ford S Max and was in garage at least 4 times a year with problems,  some premium car makers even fitted drum for handbrake and disc for normal brakes.  Being as rear brakes only do about 20% of braking force drums are more than adequate, and are not exposed to weather - rear brakes tend to get more water on them as it is swept up by car tyres / slipstream.  I noticed that Honda now only fit metal sealing caps over rear wheel bearings but not on front wheels. Noticed the rear discs and calipers on my Civic and my wifes Jazz always look dirty / corroded,  where the front brakes do not.

I'm guessing that with more cars being fitted with 'see through' alloy wheels that rear discs are a style thing, as well as being cheaper and possibly lighter weight than drums.

[madasafish]

Hi Madasafish
I did say I was old school. Anyway thanks for that it has put my mind at rest.

Just out of curiosity, what happens these days where cars have drum brakes on the rear?

Regards
John

I suspect if they work, make no noise and they are ignored. In my experience rear brake shoes last easily 70-80k miles  - or more.

( I personally get more than 50k miles from a set of front pads, so rear brake shoes are not an issue. Three years ago I checked our 2003 Toyota  Yaris which had done 57k miles at the time  - one adjuster had stuck - and the brake shoes were 25%  (or so ) worn.. implying a life of well over 100k miles)

Incidentally my Jazz rear disks are hardly rusted.. despite being three years old - and the front pads being unworn. I put this down to living in hilly country and having to brake going down hill.. plus braking when reversing.. which will do a sort of reverse disk cleaning... Mind you, although an OAP, I don't drive slowly  :-)

[bill ericay]

Same thing has happened to my wife,  I checked out 'worn' parts and they were fine.   

Thanks for the reminder. I took the opportunity to check my wife's 'worn' parts, and they were also fine.

[culzean]

Same thing has happened to my wife,  I checked out 'worn' parts and they were fine.   

Thanks for the reminder. I took the opportunity to check my wife's 'worn' parts, and they were also fine.

When asked what was worn under a kilt the Scotsman replied -  "nothing is worn under my kilt,  its all in perfect condition". 

[lexi]

 Lots of the older rear drum brakes had the self adjusting system which failed or seized after a while.
   My 96 Civic LSI Coupe was like that.  Every 4k miles I would manually adjust the little device, reaching in with a long screwdriver.  Turn to lock the wheel and drum, then just back off. That was Akebono brakes on Ohio built vehicles.

   The leccy handbrakes by ATE are the best handbrake I have had on French Luxobarge. I can lock the vehicle solid on a steep incline.......with a boat and trailer on the back.  They can have issues, but what a handbrake for heavy duty use.

[Ozzie]

144,000 miles and still on the original rear pads, (as far as I know) so maybe its not a high priority inspection.

[culzean]

I've got a feeling that if a car is used frequently (like yours is Ozzie) then the discs stay polished and never get chance to get more than a very light film of rust which cleans off without grinding anything off the pads,  but if car only used every now and then the rust gets harder to shift (ever had that 'scraping' sound when moving off / using brakes after car parked up for a few days ?) and wears the pads away more quickly.