Author Topic: Anti lock break issue?  (Read 3808 times)

u587162

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Anti lock break issue?
« on: November 27, 2017, 07:56:22 AM »
Sometimes when breaking on my 56 plate Honda jazz (96k miles), it sounds like the ABS is kicking in on semi dry road and I have to release the break and reapply it again to improve the break performance.  Only happens at times and its a really soft like ABS sound.  Anyone else have this problem?

guest5079

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2017, 08:52:30 AM »
Had this problem with our old Rover and it was due to a cracked reluctor ring. This was a crenellated machining on the CV joint. The modern car I am informed does not have a reluctor ring but a magnetic ring in the bearing. Are  your hubs front and rear clear of crud? One would assume this would interfere with the magnetic field. If a gaiter on a front CV joint is split or loose it will dump grease all over the place.
TG or Culzean might be able to cast some light on the system as they are the whizz kids on this sort of thing.

sparky Paul

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2017, 01:54:13 PM »
With suspect ABS, I start with a visual check of the reluctor rings, sensor wiring and connectors, and where possible, the sensors themselves.

The mk.1 Jazz has reluctor rings on the front CV joints and on the back of the rear hubs. Front ones should be accessible, but I think access to the rear ones requires removal of the hubs.

Unfortunately, sensors on the Jazz are not easily accessed for a visual check, and usually require driveshaft or hub removal to check for damage. You can remove the sensors, but they can be so well seized in you destroy them getting them out. It's usually easier to get a diagnostic check done first, using Honda HDS or a clone, to narrow the location of the problem down before ripping it to bits.

I believe ABS modulators are known to fail on Jazzes too.  :(

u587162

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2017, 02:16:26 PM »
Sorry a lot of that went straight over me.  Is it dangerous what I have described, should I get it looked at?  What would be typical cost to get it fixed?

guest1372

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2017, 08:54:32 PM »
I would only be guessing, so a diagnostic sounds like your best course of action.  The ABS modulator pump seems to be the first thing removed on the scrapyard cars.....
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TG

sparky Paul

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2017, 11:03:22 AM »
Agree with TG. If you're not into getting your hands mucky, get a diagnostic done at a Honda dealer, or good independent that has experience with Honda.

If it would have an effect on your ability to brake in an emergency, it needs looking at.

u587162

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2017, 12:06:19 PM »
Sorry a lot of that went straight over me.  Is it dangerous what I have described, should I get it looked at?  What would be typical cost to get it fixed?

What do you mean by hub?

Would the ELM237 thing not pick up anything?

u587162

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2017, 12:09:51 PM »
Also what sort of money are we talking about to get this fixed?

guest1372

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2017, 02:22:11 PM »
Unfortunately, you need Honda HDS (dealer's diagnostic kit) to talk to ABS, EPS, immobilizer etc.  Only limited fault codes are passed to the mandatory OBDII port and ELM code reader.
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TG

sparky Paul

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2017, 02:43:11 PM »
As TG says, you need a Honda dealer, Honda independent or someone with Honda HDS diagnostic tool to get any information out of the ABS ECU.

Without actually seeing the diagnostic, you're only guessing what the cost will be. A mechanical issue, replacement sensor, or wiring fault will be at the cheaper end, while a new ABS modulator fitted at Honda runs well into four figures.

You need the diagnostic to see what's going on, or at least narrow it down to one corner. It may even be a mechanical issue causing the ABS to play up, such as a wheel bearing.

The hub is the rotating part that the roadwheel bolts onto, nothing more fancy than that.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 02:45:20 PM by sparky Paul »

u587162

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2018, 06:40:14 PM »
Ok you know what, I dont even think this model car has ABS!  When this intermittent problem that happens, I realise that the break pedal actually goes right down...not quite sure it is to the floor but I have to bounce it a little.  This sounds more like a master cylinder drum issue that I had on a Fiat Panda some 20 years ago, but this only happens on this car maybe once a week or so. 

The break fluid levels are fine and there are no error reports....if this is a master cylinder issue, when the break pedal is pushed far down would it make a ticking type of sound before I have to release the pedal and press it again?

guest1372

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2018, 07:27:52 PM »
It does have ABS.

Clicking is a normal sound for when ABS kicks in but this is not normal braking, more emergency stop when the tyre is on the limit of traction.  If you go to a quiet road and stand on the brakes at 40mph you should be able to engage ABS.  When you initially start the car there should be an ABS witness light briefly illuminated on the dash which should extinguish after a few seconds.  A major fault while driving will illuminate this light although it may extinguish again if the fault clears.
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TG

u587162

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2018, 09:21:01 PM »
But if the break pedal travels far down on a soft manner once in a while and the ticking sound I get does not stop slow down the car, what else could it be?

My Peugeot 5008 has ABS and I am familiar with how it sounds when ABS kicks in, but either this is some other problem/sound with the jazz or the ABS sounds completely different and soft rather than the wheels locking and unlocking.

culzean

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2018, 10:18:43 AM »
you can tell if your car has ABS by looking down behind windscreen washer bottle filler tube on drivers side under the bonnet, there will be a cube of metal there on top of wheel arch with brake pipes coming out of it

If the ECU is not getting good pulses from all four wheels I would imagine the ABS fault light would come on (the ABS light on my new motorbike stays on when you start it until the wheels have rolled round a couple of times).  When you say the pedal is soft do you mean it travels too far sometimes ?  When was the fluid last changed ? If pedal travels too far and does not stop the car maybe system need the air bleeding out of it, or master cylinder seals are deteriorating.   

I think the majority of faults on brake systems are due to fluid being left in too long (the fluid absorbs water and corrosion in the system can cause many problems) - I always buy the best fluid I can get and change every couple of years and ( touch wood ) have never had to replace anything in braking system other than pads and discs.

I have tried the pressure bleeders and couldn't get them to seat on Honda reservoir even with proper adaptor and ended up with fluid everywhere.  Then I bought a MityVac bleeder (which is good on motorbikes as well), you may have to remove nipple and wrap PTFE tape around thread to stop air being sucked in when you slacken nipple,  but after that it is easy - the container capacity on the Mityvac is less than brake reservoir,  so when container is getting full  it prompts you to top up reservoir and avoid sucking air into system.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

u587162

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Re: Anti lock break issue?
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2018, 10:15:14 PM »
Just to update you further, I had the AA run a diagnostic on the car and it came back with the following codes:

Patrol found the following fault code/s:System : ABS 1 - 89T / ABS 9.5.116 - Wheel speed sensor, rear right. Error Message : Test not successful.18 - Wheel speed sensor, rear left. Error Message : Test not successful.61 - Battery charge. Error Message : Test not successful.

Suggestions?  I still get breaking issues which can be replicated when I break whilst going over a speed hump and the pedal travels down and I get the ticking sensation on the break padel and have to release and press again.

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