Author Topic: Wheels again... why so confusing?  (Read 4654 times)

JazzyJ

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2019, 08:22:50 PM »
So if I buy 15" alloys (6Jx15ET53) with 185/60/r15 tyres theses should be fine on my 2017 Jazz EX that currently runs 16" alloys with 185/55r16 tyres? Does anyone think or have experience of the Honda warranty being invalidated as they are not 'Honda Factory Fitted"?

jazzaro

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2019, 09:47:47 PM »
Hi Jazzaro. Do you have the details or even better a link to the 16" alloys you bought for your Jazz? Am I correct in assuming then that the EX steering geometry/set up is different to that of the S and SE hence the wheels can't be interchanged, even if the same year of model?
My  rims come from Dezent (a brand by Alcar), the model is TD. 16' OEM Jazz rims are not easy to replace because of the 6' width, quite all 16'rims start from 6,5';  my tire guy suggested me to use a rim with little differences in ET but keeping the same width of OEM wheels.
As I know, there is only one suspension setup of all GK trims, so wheels can be interchanged.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 09:54:20 PM by jazzaro »

jazzaro

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2019, 09:52:19 PM »
185/55 R15 tyre will have an overall diameter less than the 185/55 R16.
Usually you find that the 15" wheels have 185/60 R15 tyres, which to all intent and purpose keeps the rolling radius the same.
The rolling radius is very similar, not the same, there is a small  1,1% difference.
https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1=185-55-16X6ET53&wheel2=185-60-15X6ET53&fcl=50mm&wcl=30mm&scl=50mm&sr=0mm

« Last Edit: December 11, 2019, 09:54:46 PM by jazzaro »

Jocko

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2019, 10:11:46 PM »
The rolling radius is very similar, not the same,
That' why I said "to all intent and purpose". For all the effect it has in the speedometer it is not worth bothering about. Especially when you consider the wheel/tyre diameter changes with tyre wear anyway.

Henryge

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2019, 10:58:35 PM »
Hi There, Swapped mine from 16" rims to 15" and then changed tyres from 185/55/16 to 185/60/15.After my warrenty had run out. speed checked with sat nav and also online with tyre comparsion.Take a look at drivers piller door you will see 2 different sets of tyres for your car.

jazzaro

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2019, 11:11:20 PM »
The rolling radius is very similar, not the same,
That' why I said "to all intent and purpose". For all the effect it has in the speedometer it is not worth bothering about. Especially when you consider the wheel/tyre diameter changes with tyre wear anyway.
1,1% is small for tachos, big for other devices.
ABS ECU, used by the whole car CAN Network to get the speed (data sent to many other ECU such as power steering, door locking, instrument panel, engine ecu, infotainment and others) usually have a parameter to be set when you change your tire size, called Speed Index: in my old Clio I had to update it when I replaced OEM 165/65R15 with  optional 185/60R15, even if the circumference difference was about 1,3%. The circumference affects the tachometer, but also brake power: the max brake efficiency, lowering brake lenght, is obtained by keeping the  wheel speed at about 1% less than the vehicle  real speed (1-1,5%% for dry road, 0,8-1% for wet road), so the ABS ECU must know as better as possible the real diameter of the wheel, also because the time spent by the wheel to re-gain speed after the caliper release is used by the ecu to get  the scratch coefficient (dry, wet, snow, mud,...), and this coefficient will change pressure-increase laws of the ABS hydraulics.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:26:41 AM by jazzaro »

Jocko

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2019, 09:00:06 AM »
Reads like BS to me.

culzean

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2019, 09:23:11 AM »
Reads like BS to me.

+1   nerdy BS
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

springswood

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2019, 09:48:54 AM »
Well I for one am happy to learn something.
"Indecision is a terrible thing"
Or is it? What do you think?

JazzyJ

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2019, 10:27:28 AM »
Just spoke to Honda UK and they said if I put 15" alloys on my 2017 Jazz EX this will be seen as a modification and invalidate the warranty. Just awaiting a call back regarding whether I can fit after market alloys and the exact size required, will keep you posted.........

culzean

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2019, 10:51:42 AM »
Well I for one am happy to learn something.

The difference of 6.5 mm+ of tyre wear from new to replacement on the rolling radius of 295mm  is already over 2% - so if the tyre rolling radius is so ultra-critical to all the systems in the car why don’t we have to delve into the system and change settings ( other than maybe the indirect ABS pulse derived TPMS ) when we replace worn out tyres with new ones ?  Also what happens to the rolling radius between when a car has only the driver and empty fuel tank and when full tank, 5 passengers and luggage + roofrack to squash down the tyres ?  The difference between an unloaded and fully loaded and fueled  Jazz can be nearly 500KG,  or 50% of the weight of the vehicle.

Just spoke to Honda UK and they said if I put 15" alloys on my 2017 Jazz EX this will be seen as a modification and invalidate the warranty. Just awaiting a call back regarding whether I can fit after market alloys and the exact size required, will keep you posted.........

What does it say on the drivers door B pillar on the 'tyre information sticker' - the Jazz normally has two sizes of tyre shown,  a 15" and a 16" - these are the sizes the vehicle was homologated for during testing / approval and you are legally allowed to fit ( as long as all 4 wheels have same size ).
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 12:39:23 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

jazzaro

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2019, 01:51:04 PM »
The difference of 6.5 mm+ of tyre wear from new to replacement on the rolling radius of 295mm  is already over 2% - so if the tyre rolling radius is so ultra-critical to all the systems in the car why don’t we have to delve into the system and change settings ( other than maybe the indirect ABS pulse derived TPMS ) when we replace worn out tyres with new ones ?
You're right, and I don't know the answer. I know that ABS ECU likes to know the precise wheel radius, I don't know if or how they deal with the tire wear.

JazzyJ

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2019, 04:27:42 PM »
Here's the reply I just received from Honda UK:
-------------
Below you will find the specifications (that we were able to find):
Tyre size:  185/55R16   
Rim Size: 16x6J LM
Hub diameter: 56(mm)     
Offset: 53
 
Tyres and wheels that match the specifications of the original one will not invalidate the warranty.
-------------
From this I will probably go with the following wheels with 185/55/r16 tyres that look like an exact match for the Honda factory fitted 16" alloys (any opinions greatly received) -

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/alloy-wheels-brands/oxxo/oberon-4-314/6x16-et53-4x100-56.1-764598?car=16888

Must admit though, it's a pain having such a limited choice, seeing as 15" steel rims or alloys with 185/60/r15 tyres gives much better choice and at a cheaper price. I assume once the car's out of warranty (which for me would be March 2020) 15" wheels wouldn't be a problem. Between you and I, if a warranty issue did arise with the car guess I could just put the factory 16" rims back on before taking it to the garage?

jazzaro

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2019, 05:29:24 PM »
(any opinions greatly received) -

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/alloy-wheels-brands/oxxo/oberon-4-314/6x16-et53-4x100-56.1-764598?car=16888
This is the exact model I was looking for my winter set, unfortunately last autumn they were not in stock, so I had to buy the Dezent.

richardfrost

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Re: Wheels again... why so confusing?
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2019, 10:27:32 PM »
Having read through this thread and considering your needs and concerns, and your comments about living in the South and not seeing too much Winter weather, I would humbly suggest you just a set of 4 all season tyres on and keep them all all year. Given you won’t need to buy rims, you could splash out on a top quality tyre.

I drive a RAV4 and live in the North high on the hills up a steep road. My front tyres are down to 3mm now so I am going to fit 4 top brand all season tyres next week. It should be enough.

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