Potential buyer questions

[mikebore]

I am very interested in getting a GE Jazz, but undecided between the hybrid and standard (CVT) versions.

I have been reading up a lot about both, but there are a couple of aspects for which info is sketchy, and which I am hoping current owners may be able to help.

1. Cabin noise. One review included an interview which said I think that the hybrid had additional soundproofing compared to the current non-hybrid GE model. Is this noticeable? I have read that at town speeds the electric motor means the noisy petrol engine is doing less, so the hybrid is quieter in town, but at motorway speed maybe the smaller engine in the hybrid is noisier?


2. Performance. The specs show the hybrid is a bit faster 0-60, which I assume is the higher torque provided by the electric motor, but I have also read that the 30-60 figure is better for the non hybrid, which would imply that the hybrid is very lively between 0-30, but not between 30-60.

Any info or comment on these aspects would be very welcome.

[DV]

I don`t have any experience with the Hybrid Jazz but I know the electric motor helps the petrol engine at acceleration only up to a certain speed, above that the extra battery and electric motor is just ballast (extra weight), what the car need to carry.
If I was using my car mainly in town I was buying the hybrid one.

[Ozzie]

I would suggest test drive the two back to back. Which is what I did, and far prefered the Hybrid, so bought one, I thought the sharper acceleration, better mpg, and funky gadgets were worth the extra £1500

So I now own a hybrid and the acceleration to FIFTY mph is pretty quick, however the 50-60 acceleraton isn't quite as rapid, so that affects the 0-60 time, so I guess the torque curve levels out a bit at around 50mph.

The Hybrid I test drove was SILENT up to 5mph moving off on the electric motor, however the car I now own, does not move off on the electric motor, it seems as if the electric motor helps out when the petrol engine needs a boost, like sharp acceleration, or uphill driving.

Bear in mind that the mpg, mph figures are based on lab tests and not on road testing, personally I think the hybrid can easily beat the 11 seconds advised, as I regularly have learners keeping up with the BMWs on dual carriageways, especially now that my car has loosened up a  bit as its reached 32k now, and thats with a non-aerodynamic roof sign too.

Book those test drives . . . .

[John Ratsey]

For me, the most noticeable benefit of the hybrid setup is the easy fuss-free driving on rural roads. Some of that may be down to the CVT gearbox but the torque boost provided by the motor must help. However, a significant proportion of my driving is on motorways and A roads where the hybrid system provides little benefit to performance or economy.

Regarding cabin noise, I doubt if there is a difference in sound-proofing. However, because the hybrid system is able to pull better at lower revs there will tend to be less engine noise. I can't notice any noise difference between running on engine and running on motor (which still means the engine is turning over but not using fuel). One needs to watch the computer display to know when that is happening but it tends to be at moderate speed and favourable slope. Pulling away always uses the petrol engine but, if I understand the hybrid system description correctly, the motor is used to turn the engine over (once warmed up it should be stopped using the autostop provided it is left in gear) and then it's a matter of adding fuel as needed.

John

[mikebore]

Thanks everyone for thoughtful replies.

If the electric motor is not really doing anything at speed, the lower powered petrol engine in the hybrid is going to make the hybrid worse for performance and possibly noise at speeds over say 40/50? Is it possible to say at what road speed the electric motor stops effectively contributing?

For town use the hybrid is a clear winner on both noise and performance, but on motorway and A roads sounds like the non-hybrid would be better.

Surprised to see turning circle is slightly worse on the hybrid, and with loss of space to the battery, and my mix of driving I am veering to the non-hybrid at the moment.

Whichever I get it won't be brand new, so test driving back to back will rely on finding a dealer with both types.

[John Ratsey]

The power difference may not be significant unless you are seeking maximum performance.  I can almost count the number of occasions when I pushed the engine over the ~3500 RPM where all the valves open (and fuel gets drunk faster). Torque probably matters more in everyday driving.

John

[eljuero]

Why to buy a hybrid Jazz?
For economy?
Green car?
Better comfort?

[guest2662]

why not to buy hybrid car, cost to much,rather have a petrol only car, why? weight of battries, extra weight, lost boot space,the petrol jazz will around 50 mpg, what more can you ask.

[mikebore]

John, I agree bhp at high revs is not too important for normal driving. Torque is much more noticeable.

The electric motor peak torque is at 1000rpm so very much aimed at pulling away, though don't know the shape or what it is at say 2000rpm.

The hybrid petrol engine has peak torque a bit lower than the standard petrol (121 vs 127 Nm) at slightly lower revs (4500 vs 4800rpm), so at typical driving rpm probably the same Nm.

My summary is that it feels like the hybrid is probably much livelier in the 0-50 mph band. It may be a bit less lively that the standard petrol above 50, but not by much.

eljuero,
All three of those are factors for me but I would add performance as it is the liveliest, at least up to 50ish. Economy and green are definitely factors, but my driving style is not to ease up for fuel economy. I have impaired hearing and this is the reason I am particularly interested in the interview with a Honda engineer which said they had put more sound proofing the the hybrid because paying more buyers would expect more refinement.

 

[eljuero]

Ok, I'm just saying that I wouldn't pay more to have a hybrid Jazz.

Regarding soundproofing I read some where that Jazz 1.5 has better than 1.2 and 1.4.
So it is possible that  hybrid one also has better.

[guest3418]

Electric motors have their maximum torque from 0rpm.
If it peaks at 1000 rpm it has to be limited

Verstuurd van mijn Nexus S met Tapatalk

[mikebore]

Thanks again everyone.

I have decided for the petrol version. This is mainly driven by cost. If there were two cars at same right price, I would probably chose the hybrid.

My budget is such that I would have to be looking at the very cheapest available used hybrid.

After watching used model prices carefully, the cheapest hybrid I have seen is still £2k more than the cheapest petrol model I have seen (even after eliminating the cat Ds). The difference is not worth £2k to me.

Thanks again for inputs.

[guest3196]

I'm happy with my hybrid, but accept that the extra cost cannot really be justified on cost grounds for a low mileage user.
Nice to see 60+ mpg on longer trips, though.........

[whoopster]

Over the summer, I made a trip with my Jazz Hybrid from Bern to Duesseldorf (640 km).  The car consumed just about 32 liters...  5.0 liters per 100km...

that comes out to about 47 mpg... almost exclusively on the Autobahn.

[guest1521]

My '59 1.2SE (manual gearbox, non-hybrid) shows 54.7mpg on 'the display' as cumulative consumption. That's from 'mixed' running over 27,000 miles with most miles from long trips. I change up through the gears as early as possible, keep in a higher gear as long as possible, brake as little as possible (ANTICIPATION is key), keep up with traffic flow and exceed 3500rpm only when necessary on overtaking or steep hills.

There must be reasons other than mpg to buy a hybrid, perhaps the way it moves off the mark (quicker) and quieter.