2010 Si lost all power while driving - any ideas why??

[ursusminor]

Hi all - first-time poster and partner of first-time Jazz owner here, with a perplexing and concerning problem.

Short version: my partner's 2010 Jazz Si 1.4 lost all power while driving, and we don't know why.

Long version: My partner recently passed her test (she's in her late 30s, never had the chance to learn until recently), and we bought a 2010 Jazz Si with about 65,000 miles. The car had done less than 200 miles in the year before we bought it, and had a few things (passenger window, mirror motor) that were bunged up because of this.

The other morning, about 1.5 miles into her drive to work, while making a left-turn onto a quiet road, all the lights and electrical systems in the car, including the power steering, went off. And she believes the engine lost power as well (although she is not 100% certain about this, as she was very panicked in the moment). Luckily she was able to pull over immediately and safely and stop the car. She tried turning the key, but couldn't move it in either direction (again, she questions whether she tried properly as she was panicked).

As suddenly as it went off, the electricity came back - this was without her touching the key or anything else (she was on the phone to a friend with car-experience at the time). She was then able to restart the engine and continue with her commute.

At the first opportunity she took it into the independent garage where she bought the car (it's still under their warranty, and they were helpful sorting out the few niggles above shortly after purchase). They did a check of the system, and had a look at everything they could think of (seemingly pretty thorough) - but couldn't find a fault.

So far the problem has not reoccured - but she's now obviously rather worried about driving in case it happens again. She's done nearly 800 miles in the 3-ish weeks she's owned the car, including plenty of motorway driving, and this is the only time it's had any kind of serious issue.

Our collective speculation as to what might have happened includes:

 - A loose or corroded battery connection (we thought the negative terminal was corroded, but it turned out to be grease sprayed over it)
 - A problem with the alternator
 - Gunk in the fuel line, from the car having sat unused for so long
 - Aliens

If anyone has any thoughts on this - or anything else we could check - please do let us know!

(PS - thanks in general to all the useful advice and commentary on this forum - it's been very useful while we've been car-hunting, and now we have the Jazz.)

[culzean]

Hi all - first-time poster and partner of first-time Jazz owner here, with a perplexing and concerning problem.

Short version: my partner's 2010 Jazz Si 1.4 lost all power while driving, and we don't know why.

Long version: My partner recently passed her test (she's in her late 30s, never had the chance to learn until recently), and we bought a 2010 Jazz Si with about 65,000 miles. The car had done less than 200 miles in the year before we bought it, and had a few things (passenger window, mirror motor) that were bunged up because of this.

The other morning, about 1.5 miles into her drive to work, while making a left-turn onto a quiet road, all the lights and electrical systems in the car, including the power steering, went off. And she believes the engine lost power as well (although she is not 100% certain about this, as she was very panicked in the moment). Luckily she was able to pull over immediately and safely and stop the car. She tried turning the key, but couldn't move it in either direction (again, she questions whether she tried properly as she was panicked).

As suddenly as it went off, the electricity came back - this was without her touching the key or anything else (she was on the phone to a friend with car-experience at the time). She was then able to restart the engine and continue with her commute.

At the first opportunity she took it into the independent garage where she bought the car (it's still under their warranty, and they were helpful sorting out the few niggles above shortly after purchase). They did a check of the system, and had a look at everything they could think of (seemingly pretty thorough) - but couldn't find a fault.

So far the problem has not reoccured - but she's now obviously rather worried about driving in case it happens again. She's done nearly 800 miles in the 3-ish weeks she's owned the car, including plenty of motorway driving, and this is the only time it's had any kind of serious issue.

If the alternator stopped charging for a short time the battery should be able to run things till it comes back.

Our collective speculation as to what might have happened includes:

 - A loose or corroded battery connection (we thought the negative terminal was corroded, but it turned out to be grease sprayed over it)
 - A problem with the alternator
 - Gunk in the fuel line, from the car having sat unused for so long
 - Aliens

If anyone has any thoughts on this - or anything else we could check - please do let us know!

(PS - thanks in general to all the useful advice and commentary on this forum - it's been very useful while we've been car-hunting, and now we have the Jazz.)

If the alternator stopped charging for a short time the battery should be able to run things till it comes back online. Having said that the incident happened when she was making a sharp turn,  and the electrical steering does take 60 amps, that is a chunk of power. Do you know how old the battery is,  and is the car starting easily ( I mean spinning over, not grinding away for a while before it starts).   It may just be an old battery that does not perform when needed, also the welded connections inside a battery can fail, giving an intermittent fault, although that is rare.  If you are not sure of battery age that would be my first suspect

https://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/yuasa-ybx5054-silver-12v-40ah-054-car-battery.html

Cheaper from Tayna but they have no stock.   https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx5054/

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/car-batteries/yuasa-hsb154-silver-12v-car-battery-5-year-guarantee-174015.html

IIRC Halfords Silver batteries made by Yuasa but Halfords have their own number on them.

[Jocko]

Sounds like a poor battery connection or the earth cable between the engine and the body. The load of the power steering was just too much for it.

[guest4871]

The car had done less than 200 miles in the year before we bought it, 

I think this battery must be in a very bad state, practically useless and possibly over 5 years old. I would start with a new battery.

I would also look to get at least a minor annual service done independent from the dealer. The engine oil, at least, would have degraded, even without use, over the year. Even if the dealer has done it. 

Perhaps also, a new independent MOT as a safety check. Even if the dealer has done it. 

IIRC - It also needs a coolant change at age 10 years. I would also do that. IIRC - It must be Honda Coolant. Even if the dealer has done it. 

Then you start with a reasonably clean slate.

[culzean]

The car had done less than 200 miles in the year before we bought it, 

I think this battery must be in a very bad state, practically useless and possibly over 5 years old. I would start with a new battery.

I would also look to get at least a minor annual service done independent from the dealer. The engine oil, at least, would have degraded, even without use, over the year. Even if the dealer has done it. 

Perhaps also, a new independent MOT as a safety check. Even if the dealer has done it. 

IIRC - It also needs a coolant change at age 10 years. I would also do that. IIRC - It must be Honda Coolant. Even if the dealer has done it. 

Then you start with a reasonably clean slate.

https://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/honda-shop/genuine-honda-type-2-coolant-5-litre-pre-mixed/

Will also need a brake and clutch fluid flush,  doubt if it has ever been done even with 'main stealer' services,  spark plugs should be good to about 70,000 miles ( Iridium ) and same for gearbox oil ( assuming it is a manual gearbox ).

[ursusminor]

If the alternator stopped charging for a short time the battery should be able to run things till it comes back online. Having said that the incident happened when she was making a sharp turn,  and the electrical steering does take 60 amps, that is a chunk of power. Do you know how old the battery is,  and is the car starting easily ( I mean spinning over, not grinding away for a while before it starts).   It may just be an old battery that does not perform when needed, also the welded connections inside a battery can fail, giving an intermittent fault, although that is rare.  If you are not sure of battery age that would be my first suspect

https://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/yuasa-ybx5054-silver-12v-40ah-054-car-battery.html

Cheaper from Tayna but they have no stock.   https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/yuasa/ybx5054/

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/car-batteries/yuasa-hsb154-silver-12v-car-battery-5-year-guarantee-174015.html

IIRC Halfords Silver batteries made by Yuasa but Halfords have their own number on them.

Thanks - this is a useful line of enquiry.

The current Lion battery was bought in Nov 2018 - but as the car also did just a few hundred miles after it was fitted, I wouldn't be surprised if it had issues.

That said, the car starts quickly without any problems, so it's definitely not an obvious problem. The battery or the connection to it was our first suspect, but even what we thought might have been corrosion is actually grease (see pic).

[ursusminor]

I think this battery must be in a very bad state, practically useless and possibly over 5 years old. I would start with a new battery.

I would also look to get at least a minor annual service done independent from the dealer. The engine oil, at least, would have degraded, even without use, over the year. Even if the dealer has done it. 

Perhaps also, a new independent MOT as a safety check. Even if the dealer has done it. 

IIRC - It also needs a coolant change at age 10 years. I would also do that. IIRC - It must be Honda Coolant. Even if the dealer has done it. 

Then you start with a reasonably clean slate.

Thanks for this - as above, the battery isn't that old, but almost certainly hasn't been maintained enough through regular use. But yes, we might get these things checked out as well!

[olduser1]

If your unhappy take it back & ask the garage to fix the faults put your concerns in writing keep a copy etc. Give them time to rectify say a week.

[madasafish]

My educated guess is:
the battery is probably OK
One of the many battery to earth connections is corroded. OK for normal use but 60amps power steering and other components would be enough to create a high resistance, overheating at the resistance and consequent complete loss of power.

(IF it was the battery, I would assume the battery would show some signs. It does appear to start OK- check the voltage over the terminals. Under 12.4V with ignition off means it is damaged).

I would also check every battery connection to earth at the battery and earth connections and derust/make bare metal visible and then grease with electrical grease  available at car parts shops. (ONLY electrical grease.

[culzean]

My educated guess is:
the battery is probably OK
One of the many battery to earth connections is corroded. OK for normal use but 60amps power steering and other components would be enough to create a high resistance, overheating at the resistance and consequent complete loss of power.

(IF it was the battery, I would assume the battery would show some signs. It does appear to start OK- check the voltage over the terminals. Under 12.4V with ignition off means it is damaged).

I would also check every battery connection to earth at the battery and earth connections and derust/make bare metal visible and then grease with electrical grease  available at car parts shops. (ONLY electrical grease.

If it was a bad joint the starter draws >200 amps, which is why I asked about car starting.  If it is a failing battery it may recover enough to start car once power has been off.

[ursusminor]

Thanks all - we really appreciate your input.

We've spoken to a friendly Honda dealer, and they say this isn't a known issue, but they also suspect a loose ground connection. They're going to have a look at it next week - good to have a third party inspect it in any case, and hopefully they'll have some firmer conclusions.

Will update as we know more...

[ursusminor]

Well - we didn't get as far as the investigation... because today the car failed to start at all (luckily safely and conveniently parked).

Called the RAC out - a helpful chap called Adam checked the battery (fine), checked a lot of other things (also fine), and was close to calling it a day and getting it towed somewhere when he checked the connections to the fuse box.

Lo and behold, the screw for fuse 60 - the main ignition - was loose. He tightened it up - and now all is fine.

So that seems to be what's behind the issue - given a loose connection somewhere was one of the most probable causes, we're calling this one fixed, and leaving it here. Hopefully an easy fix if it happens again as well (although if it does keep happening, we'll probably need to sort it out more thoroughly).

[Jocko]

Great result. Should be fine now. Probably never fully tight, then years of vibration.