moving off uphill

[jaxabin]

Hi

Really struggling with this car and moving off uphill. It's my first car but it was easier in my instructor car, I feel like it's so easy to stall this one. I used to stall on flat ground but I got better with it, but now if it's a slight hill there's a chance to stall.

I have to handbrake every time to move off from this which is a bit annoying in stop start traffic if on a hill.

I'd rather just use the brake to move off and not need the hand brake but it feels like it stalls very easily. I've been putting more gas as well which helps but I don't want to burn the clutch

Also, I find that just driving on slight uphill with 4th or 5th gear it's really hard to accelerate at all and even loses speed even when I'm trying to push it with my throttle. I'm guessing this is just normal in high gears for any car? I have the 1.4 honda jazz se 2005

Edit to add manual

[Lord Voltermore]

Different cars behave differently to some extent and you may need to use more throttle (more gas) than  you did in your instructors car and it may need to use a lower gear to climb hills.   It takes time to get used to a different car, especially for the first time.  I learned to drive almost entirely in a car that was 15 years old at the time( and from the 1950's  )  I had a few professional lessons in a  brand new driving school car that was so smooth,powerful  and easy to drive in comparison it was a doddle  . I'm proud of the fact i actually passed my test in the old banger

But I'm intrigued that you expect to drive the car without using the handbrake much. Its bad practice not to apply the handbrake,and go into neutral)   every time you stop ,even on level ground, even in stop start traffic. Some drivers might not ,but its a bad habit.    And hill starts most definitely need  you to use the handbrake, apply significantly more gas than  normal and slip the clutch to some extent  to smoothly take up drive. And be in the correct gear for  climbing any given hill.  Your instructor may have avoided such hills as they can be a challenge for novice drivers.   With practice it becomes easier, and shouldnt put much undue strain on the clutch, if you do it properly and the car is running as well as it should.  Its unavoidable that a car used frequently in hilly districts or heavy traffic(or a driving school car driven by novices)  might wear its clutch out sooner than a car that does mostly motorway miles.   
 
 But you should check your  car is indeed running properly and  'pulling' as well as a 1.4 litre jazz  should.  You could ask a mechanic to test drive the car to see if the car is performing as expected, or any experienced driver who is insured to drive the car could probably tell if somethings not right.

[Marco1979]

In many new cars the throttle is digital instead of purely mechanical. So in your driving lessons car it might be that the car itself will slightly raise the rpm when just lifting the clutch. This makes driving off very easy and on an uphill slope you might not need to use the accelerator to compensate for the slope; it detects the slope and does that automatically.
The new Toyota Corolla will even keep your speed steady no matter the slope. This can be easy, but you lose the feeling of the real driving and physics behind it.

The Jazz is not that sophisticated, but indeed you get used to it! You will find that it will do exactly what you want to do!

[Lord Voltermore]

There may be nothing wrong with its performance.  Some cars have better low end torque than others.  This means they can pull more strongly with fewer revs and can slug up hills in a higher gear.   Diesels for instance tend to be low revving, high torque, engines.   Other cars perform better if you use more revs and keep in lower gears for longer. More like a racing car than a Truck  . I believe there are some Jazz models that need plenty of engine revs to perform at their best.    You may just need to adapt your driving technique. 

[richardfrost]

The Mk1 Jazz definitely responds well to putting your foot down. It has very low gearing and likes to rev highly. I suggest…

1. Ask someone else to try it or even take a lesson from your instructor in your own car. They will be able to tell if the car is a,right and give you specific instruction on its nuances.
2. Embrace the handbrake. Holding the car on the clutch is bad practice. My son does it on our 2005 1.4SE and it will be the death of that car if it needs a new clutch.
3. Maybe get a friendly mechanic to give the car a check, it may just need a good service and replacement of all 8 spark plugs.
4. Get a bottle of Redex (petrol version) from Tesco. It’s quite cheap. Put the whole bottle in the fill the tank to the top. Might make it loosen up a bit.

[jaxabin]

Thanks all for the replies. I suppose it is just getting used to it! I'll be sure to just use the handbrake from now on. Also, slight aside but it seems the handbrake is a little bit weak? If I get it serviced will they look at it all and see if it looks right?

[richardfrost]

They should tighten it but it is worth mentioning it specifically, along with anything else you want them to do.

[Jocko]

Also, slight aside but it seems the handbrake is a little bit weak? If I get it serviced will they look at it all and see if it looks right?

The handbrake on the Mk1 Jazz is not great and I was told by the Honda mechanic, when I bought mine, to firmly apply the footbrake and hold it on while I applied the handbrake. I never had any issues doing that.
Regarding stalling. After driving all sorts of vehicles, for 50 years, I found the clutch on my Mk 1 Jazz a pig. It was very easy to stall. After more than 6 years and 62,500 miles of ownership, I never got used to it and unless I gave it big revs I still stalled on an embarrassing number of times.

[Lord Voltermore]

There you go Jaxabin.  Perfect your skills on a mk 1 jazz ,and every car you drive thereafter will be so easy in comparison you will soon be reminiscing about how  these  new drivers  who pass their test in an electric vehicle had it too easy.   Let them try driving  a mk1 Jazz. Except they can't because , they don't have the correct driving  licence      Those who learn to cope with less powerful brakes, dodgy synchromesh on gears, more challenging power delivery etc can  cope with better performance.  Not so easy to adapt if its the other way round.   

[embee]

Never driven a mk.1 but I know some cars are just like that. Unfortunately there's rarely much you can do about it mechanically providing there aren't any actual faults.
I'm guessing the clutch is a cable. Sometimes these can get stiff which doesn't help things, my Dad had a CRV with a cable clutch, it was fine when the car was young but when I drove it after some 10yrs or so the clutch was horribly heavy and stiff, he had just got used to it as it gradually changed.
They are usually auto adjusting but some basic cars (Aygo etc) still have a manual adjuster on the cable, and this can sometimes help the action and biting point etc.

You can try some silicone lubricant on the cable itself, they are usually nylon lined and ideally you wouldn't use mineral type oils though it's not disastrous if you do.

It's often down to how the engine idle speed management is calibrated. Usually if you briefly blip the throttle the idle speed will hang-up a little for a second or two before dropping back down to normal. If this function is calibrated to be very brief it can lead to relatively easy stalling. Similarly once the car is actually moving (above a low threshold speed) the idle speed will normally be at a slightly higher value, generally to improve driveability and refinement. If this function requires the car to be moving slightly faster than ideal then it can also lead to easy stalling, the engine will dip in speed before the car gets up to the required speed for it to be held higher. Not much you can do to re-calibrate these things.

[Jocko]

I'm guessing the clutch is a cable.

Mk1 clutch is hydraulic.

[embee]

Thanks for that, in which case definitely change the fluid and bleed the system. Again I guess the fluid is likely common with the brakes? My Yaris has a hydraulic clutch and definitely benefited from a fluid change and bleed when I got the car (well serviced but 30k miles and may not have ever been changed??)

[jaxabin]

Hi all

Thanks for all the posts! I'm stalling almost never now (sometimes on flat ground I stall because I forget to gas because I assume it will be fine tho oops!) and maybe mcdonalds drivethru when I'm right behind a hump the small steep ones.

Today I had a weird issue. I paid on the clifron suspension bridge and went towards the gate that opens and I tried to move off and it seems like it had no power. I put so much revs and eventually it started to move off. Then it was mostly downhill in 2nd gear and the revs rose a lot (is this normal because of engine braking?) and it felt like the 3rd gear was in a slightly different position than it usually felt (straight up but this time it felt like it was going a little bit of the angle). The higher gears worked fine and then it seemed like I didn't have the same issue again for the rest of the journey. After I got home and parked I put the clutch down with the car off and the gears seemed like normal, third was straight up again and I didn't feel it like it was feeling a little bit earlier

Just confused what happened? is the gearbox okay?

edit: also when i was trying to move off on the bridge, i pressed the throttle quite a bit but in the indicator the rpm didnt really move? buit i could hear the engine making noise?

edit2: i drove again the next day and seems perfectly normal!

[Jocko]

I think you tried to move off in third then when you tried to go into third you were actually going into fifth.
Apart from a possible noisy input shaft bearing the gearbox is bulletproof. The selector mechanism is remote from the gearbox. If a mount broke then the gate position could change (I had it happen on an Austin 1800 many years ago and to select reverse you had to get the lever below your left knee) but it would not be right the following day.

[jaxabin]

I think you tried to move off in third then when you tried to go into third you were actually going into fifth.
Apart from a possible noisy input shaft bearing the gearbox is bulletproof. The selector mechanism is remote from the gearbox. If a mount broke then the gate position could change (I had it happen on an Austin 1800 many years ago and to select reverse you had to get the lever below your left knee) but it would not be right the following day.

hmnm I see, that's strange. I hope I was just selecting the wrong gear. it was late night and I was tired after all... will keep an eye if something like it happens again