Green Party Manifesto

[Basil]

But you are missing the point, they don't need to consume that much meat, it's not sustainable and is destroying the planet.

[Jocko]

Personally, I will continue to eat meat until prevented from doing so, either by law, price, or the flood water preventing me getting to the butchers.

[madasafish]

But you are missing the point, they don't need to consume that much meat, it's not sustainable and is destroying the planet.

And what influence  do we -the viewers of a BBC program deigned for UK viewers - have on the US and their meat eating?
None.

So all the entire program was a virtue signalling exercise with zero constructive output and of no use except to sneer at US farming practices..
Now as a hobby beekeeper, I would agree some of Us commercial bee farming is pretty poor - and the best is very good- but it's up to the Amercians to sort that out. No way would I - or other UK beekeepers - attempt  to tell teh US what to do.

[Basil]

I don't think anyone is suggesting we should all stop eating meat, like I will no longer eat meat, it's a personal choice we all have to make.

The program was just showing how excessive meat consumption is another contributing factor to the damage humans are doing to the planet and it's not confined to the USA, a lot of land in South America is being cleared for animal feed destined for Europe. 

Meat consumption has gone up massively over the last 20 years or so and reducing our meat consumption would be another way we could help reduce this damage.

My main reason for not eating meat is that I don't want animals to be killed for my plate, I'm quite happy with my current diet and I wish I'd stopped years ago.

I realise it's a sensitive subject and I don't want to keep going on about it so sorry if I've offended anyone.

[culzean]

I hope science never discovers that plants have feelings - some people may starve...

[sparky Paul]

My main reason for not eating meat is that I don't want animals to be killed for my plate, I'm quite happy with my current diet and I wish I'd stopped years ago.

I realise it's a sensitive subject and I don't want to keep going on about it so sorry if I've offended anyone.

I find it an interesting discussion, and I think we can all respect your personal decision not to eat meat for moral reasons.

I still eat meat, and although we enjoy both vegetarian and meat dishes, we eat quite a bit less than we did a few years ago. I used to buy all my meat from an excellent mobile butcher who could tell you exactly which Lincolnshire farm the meat came from, sadly closed down as the owner passed away last year. It is difficult to source meat with a known provenance, unless you are prepared to pay premium prices.

I have reared and killed poultry for our own consumption, but I can understand that it's not an option for everybody. Contrary to what was said earlier in the thread, it is perfectly legal to kill and prepare your own animals for food on your own property, so long as it's for your own consumption and you use a legal method of dispatch.

If people feel that they should eat less meat, but are conflicted, I would say to look for higher welfare, locally produced meat. It's going to be more expensive, but some of the mass produced stuff out there is just rubbish. Go for something better quality, and eat less of it.

[Jocko]

My main reason for not eating meat is that I don't want animals to be killed for my plate

I would happily stop eating meat, for the very same reason, but I do like vegetables. I don't even like quorn or the like, that is meant to taste like meat. However, once scientists are able to grow meat in the laboratory, I will happily eat that instead.

[sparky Paul]

once scientists are able to grow meat in the laboratory, I will happily eat that instead.

I'm pretty sure that will be coming soon. If you could see how complex and time consuming the process is to produce tofu or quorn, it's not hard to imagine the processes being used in labs to 'grow' meat being scaled up to mass production.

[culzean]

https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/eating-soy-increase-estrogen-production-2870.html

Problem with eating Soya products is that they are full of phytoeostrogen ( female hormone, opposite of testosterone) and just like men who worked in chicken factories used to grow boobs ( because of female hormones fed to chickens to promote growth ),  men who eat soya are liable to get a squeaky voice and have bigger boobs than their wife / girlfriend..... People like to talk about hormones in American beef but a teaspoon of tofu has more hormones than a 20 ounce steak.   It is recommended that women going through menopause increase their consumption of soya to replace lost hormones.   

Soya beans are processed to remove the oil to make bio-diesel and Soya milk etc  and then the remaining waste bean paste is made into foodstuffs like tofu and cattle food.  People like to say that land is cleared to grow for soya beans to feed cattle - but the cattle only get the waste 'cake' after the valuable oil has been removed - without cattle to eat it the cake may be thrown away.

[Basil]

Soy has been a major staple in Asian cultures for centuries, and their incidence of coronary artery disease, hypertension, ischemic stroke, hormone-dependent cancers, osteoporosis, postmenopausal hip fracture, diabetes, and obesity are all markedly lower than what is in the Western world.

Soy contains a form of plant estrogen called isoflavones, but these phytochemicals aren’t the same thing as human estrogen. They’re natural, nonsteroidal compounds sometimes called phytoestrogens, which are also found in flax seeds, sesame seeds, garlic, peanuts, beer, and more.

Even though soy isoflavones have properties similar to human estrogen, evidence suggests that they actually have beneficial anti-estrogenic effects in breast tissue, while also having beneficial estrogen-mimicking effects in bone tissue.

Soy cultivation is a major driver of deforestation in the Amazon basin. Seeds from the soybean plant provide high protein animal feed for livestock, and 80% of Amazon soy is destined for animal feed; smaller percentages are used for oil or eaten directly. Today Brazil has 24-25 million hectares devoted to the growth of this crop, and is currently the second largest producer of soybeans in the world.

[Jocko]

Just a question that popped into my head. If the entire world was to turn vegetarian, would we have enough land (never mind fertile land) to grow all the foodstuffs we would require to feed 7.7 billion souls?

[Jocko]

Answered my own question. It takes a minimum of 5 acres to feed a vegetarian.

https://www.primalsurvivor.net/much-land-need-self-sufficient/

With 7.7 billion vegetarians that would require 38.5 billion acres of quality land, having adequate rainfall, and a long growing season.
The TOTAL acreage of the earth is 36.8 billion acres, so something would have to give!

[Basil]

That's a bad sign that is Jocko, answering your own questions !

Out of interest, how many acres does it take to feed a meat eater ?

[Basil]

I'm starting to do it myself now !

I haven't found the answer to my question but found an article in The Independent about a study by Cambridge University:

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/veganism-environmental-impact-planet-reduced-plant-based-diet-humans-study-a8378631.html

This bit mentions electric cars and sustainable farming:

“A vegan diet is probably the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth, not just greenhouse gases, but global acidification, eutrophication, land use and water use.
“It is far bigger than cutting down on your flights or buying an electric car,” he explained, which would only reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

“Avoiding consumption of animal products delivers far better environmental benefits than trying to purchase sustainable meat and dairy,” he added.

[Jocko]

Out of interest, how many acres does it take to feed a meat eater ?

The average US consumer today requires more than 2.5 acres of land each year to sustain his or her current diet.