Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: csp on July 04, 2020, 06:24:03 AM
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The Jazz looks great in Platinum White and is very quiet to drive and seems to have much more thrust. The dealer could not supply number plates with a Union Jack in place of the UK flag so I had plates without a flag and fitted gel stickers with a UK flag and GB logo. I have only been on a short trip so far.
I haven't manages to activated the speed limiters yet but need to look at it again today.
More to follow
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Look forward to reviews.
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The Jazz looks great in Platinum White and is very quiet to drive and seems to have much more thrust. The dealer could not supply number plates with a Union Jack in place of the UK flag so I had plates without a flag and fitted gel stickers with a UK flag and GB logo. I have only been on a short trip so far.
I haven't manages to activated the speed limiters yet but need to look at it again today.
More to follow
I thought the union jack (or more acurately union flag, jack only when at sea) was the UK flag. St Georges cross being the English flag.
Enjoy your new car.
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I had the Scottish Saltire and SCO on my Volvo plates but nothing on the Jazz plates.
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Look forward to reviews.
Metoo
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Sounds positive will be good to hear what it’s like
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My dealer is still waiting for a truck loaded with new Honda vehicles to show up. Early next week, perhaps?
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;D The car is really quiet & more comfortable than the Mk3 it has loads of thrust especially in EV mode. I managed to get the speed limiters enabled and last night drove about 8 miles in built up areas, trip recorder indicated 81mpg. Due to go on a longer journey today so that will be more mixed driving including motorway, dual carriageways and in town.
I am not sure about the lane departure mitigation on normal roads it is quite weird to feel the steering being pulled due to a line on the road or on roads with no curb.
At the moment I miss the paddles on down hill roads but the B mode seem to be ok but will take some getting used to. The Brake Hold function is great no more holding my foot on the break pedal at traffic lights.
;D Having not had a test drive hasn't been a problem so far everything seems great.
I thought from the online brochure that the car would come with the My Honda dongle but that is the case, I wish I had released that because I spent ages trying to get the My Honda App to connect to the car.
The on line user manual is different from the printed one, but the manual can also be displayed on the car media screen.
I seem to have Android Auto working so hopefully I should be able to use Google Maps navigation today.
I was lucky, I only ordered the car on Tuesday, it was in the showroom so the sale went through quickly, the car was delivered before 13:00 on Friday.
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Everything I've read confirms what you say csp. This is a step change for Honda and possibly the best Jazz yet.
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Over the last 50 years I have taken delivery of about 23 new cars, many being leased company cars, so far I would say that the Jazz e:HEV is one of the best cars I have driven. I have driven Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 and Mk4 and the Mk4 is the best I have driven, also the most expensive though.
Today I drove my Jazz SR about 60 miles total, 30 miles on A, B or unclassified roads through the New Forest mostly less than 50mph, the trip computer showing 82mpg at the end of that drive. On the way back driving 30 miles along the A31, M27, M3 ending with the return trip showing 72mpg for that journey.
Through the forest the car ran mostly on EV or with the engine generating power to charge the battery or supply the drive motor. On the dual carriageway and motorway the car was running most of the time in EV mode or in charging mode at speeds up to 60, then over 60 the engine seemed to be running most of the time.
I plan to now reset the A trip computer to exclude the pre-delivery and delivery drive so that the trip computer just shows my driving, I will set the A trip computer to reset each time the tank is filled and reset the B trip computer next time I fill up and leave that set for manual resetting.
The non Honda custom carpet mats I bought for my Mk3 Jazz CVT fit ok in the Mk4 Jazz.
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I plan to now reset the A trip computer to exclude the pre-delivery and delivery drive so that the trip computer just shows my driving, I will set the A trip computer to reset each time the tank is filled and reset the B trip computer next time I fill up and leave that set for manual resetting.
Those are impressive numbers although I would assume they might be 5% high given Honda's track record with the car computers invariably over-stating the mpg (my Mk 3 Jazz was 9% high although the HR-V is only 3% high compared to miles driven / fuel into tank).
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I find, with my Mk1, that the larger the mpg figure the nearer the real value is to the Display figure.
Today I topped up and the Display said 63.4 whereas the calculated figure was 61.7 mpg. That is only 2.75% optimistic.
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I find, with my Mk1, that the larger the mpg figure the nearer the real value is to the Display figure.
Today I topped up and the Display said 63.4 whereas the calculated figure was 61.7 mpg. That is only 2.75% optimistic.
When i used to check fuel used against miles traveled I found that the smoother my driving ( no hard acceleration and braking ) the nearer the indicated value was to the actual calculated value. The system uses injector 'on' times from ECU and updates every 10 seconds or so - the display is also more sensitive / responds more quickly ( nearer the instantaneous readout ) after the trip display has just been reset, when the fuel used ( as seen by ECU ) is averaged over a small mileage than after say 50 miles or more is on the trip, when the fuel used is averaged over a bigger mileage and going uphill or downhill hardly seems to affect the display.
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The system uses injector 'on' times from ECU
Yep, ON time and estimated density coming from the fuel temperature when measured by a thermocouple, otherwise this value is an average constant.
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Over the last 50 years I have taken delivery of about 23 new cars, many being leased company cars, so far I would say that the Jazz e:HEV is one of the best cars I have driven. I have driven Mk1, Mk2, Mk3 and Mk4 and the Mk4 is the best I have driven, also the most expensive though.
Today I drove my Jazz SR about 60 miles total, 30 miles on A, B or unclassified roads through the New Forest mostly less than 50mph, the trip computer showing 82mpg at the end of that drive. On the way back driving 30 miles along the A31, M27, M3 ending with the return trip showing 72mpg for that journey.
Through the forest the car ran mostly on EV or with the engine generating power to charge the battery or supply the drive motor. On the dual carriageway and motorway the car was running most of the time in EV mode or in charging mode at speeds up to 60, then over 60 the engine seemed to be running most of the time.
I plan to now reset the A trip computer to exclude the pre-delivery and delivery drive so that the trip computer just shows my driving, I will set the A trip computer to reset each time the tank is filled and reset the B trip computer next time I fill up and leave that set for manual resetting.
The non Honda custom carpet mats I bought for my Mk3 Jazz CVT fit ok in the Mk4 Jazz.
Hi - it sounds all very positive so far. Have you noticed any pre-heating system for the car when it's cold? I expect there is something fitted but it may not activate until the temperature drops, however in case of demisting and needing warm air this wouldn't be provided by running on EV alone. I guess a small electric device is fitted to provide warm air. It might be interesting once frost appears to see what activates to help demist the windscreen.
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Maybe as well to do the old fill to fill over a month or so of mixed driving then check mpg.
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I suspect that the engine will run in cold weather to provide heating, the manual implies that the system may take longer to initialise in very cold weather (see attachment), I also suspect that in cold weather the range in EV mode would be reduced so the engine would run more.
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My dealer sent me a link to this introductory video: Honda UK have prepared it because social distancing requirements prevent the salesman from sitting in the vehicle with the customer and explaining the controls.
At about 2m 55s there's a comment explaining that whether or not the engine starts when the vehicle is first powered up depends on both the state of battery charge (I presume he means the HV battery) and the temperature both inside and outside the vehicle. This, I deduce, means that the engine is needed for both heating and cooling. The handbook explains that enabling Econ mode allows greater temperature fluctuations (ie the vehicle will tolerate a bigger temperature difference between target and actual temperature before the engine gets started).
I'm a little surprised that, given all the technology packed under the bonnet, Honda didn't include an inverter controlled electrical aircon / heat pump. They must have one in the parts store for the Honda e but perhaps they were worried by the prospect of people sitting in the vehicle for sustained periods, going nowhere but draining the battery.
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I suspect that the engine will run in cold weather to provide heating, the manual implies that the system may take longer to initialise in very cold weather (see attachment), I also suspect that in cold weather the range in EV mode would be reduced so the engine would run more.
Thanks for this, an interesting detail. It does say you can't drive off until conditions improve, I wonder for how long? If it is minus 8 and thick ice on the car it may prevent you driving off until certain levels and readings comply. Suppose you can defrost and scrape off the ice whilst the car initialises? I don't think the new Jazz has a heated windscreen.
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My dealer sent me a link to this introductory video: Honda UK have prepared it because social distancing requirements prevent the salesman from sitting in the vehicle with the customer and explaining the controls.
At about 2m 55s there's a comment explaining that whether or not the engine starts when the vehicle is first powered up depends on both the state of battery charge (I presume he means the HV battery) and the temperature both inside and outside the vehicle. This, I deduce, means that the engine is needed for both heating and cooling. The handbook explains that enabling Econ mode allows greater temperature fluctuations (ie the vehicle will tolerate a bigger temperature difference between target and actual temperature before the engine gets started).
I'm a little surprised that, given all the technology packed under the bonnet, Honda didn't include an inverter controlled electrical aircon / heat pump. They must have one in the parts store for the Honda e but perhaps they were worried by the prospect of people sitting in the vehicle for sustained periods, going nowhere but draining the battery.
Thanks for this John, very interesting. There is a lot going on under the bonnet with competing systems and sensors, it does suggest a delay to driving if it is very cold.
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I'm a little surprised that, given all the technology packed under the bonnet, Honda didn't include an inverter controlled electrical aircon / heat pump. They must have one in the parts store for the Honda e but perhaps they were worried by the prospect of people sitting in the vehicle for sustained periods, going nowhere but draining the battery.
The difference in battery capacity is HUGE between the Jazz and the Honda-e (even though the Honda-e is small compared with the Kona, Niro and Tesla). It is not surprising that the engine has to run to provide heating and cooling. If you are happy to suffer, you can use the Econ mode, just as in an EV you can wrap up warm and do without cabin heating (seat heaters appear to be a more energy-efficient means of keeping warm in an EV).
The bit about "the manual implies that the system may take longer to initialise in very cold weather" is worrying, if the car won't start in extremely low temperatures.
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The bit about "the manual implies that the system may take longer to initialise in very cold weather" is worrying, if the car won't start in extremely low temperatures.
How cold is "very cold"? I guess somewhere like -20C as Honda are selling the same vehicle all over Europe and many countries have colder winters than we get. Even if "very cold" is as high as -10C I'm very unlikely to be venturing outside but maybe it's a more common occurrence for you folk who live near the Arctic circle ;D .
A heat pump typically produces 4 x more heat than it uses as energy so a 0.5kW heat pump could provide 2kW of heating. A few minutes fill-in warmth from battery power would avoid the cold engine idling when waiting at traffic lights or junctions and cold engines are bad for the mpg. If the engine only has to run when it's actually delivering power then it will warm up faster (perhaps Honda has configured the vehicle so that the engine does a bit of work topping up the battery). We'll find out next winter.
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A heat pump typically produces 4 x more heat than it uses as energy so a 0.5kW heat pump could provide 2kW of heating.
These figures are for a "Ground Source Heat Pump" so unless you bury the car in the ground, I cannot see how you can get that amount of energy. EV heat pumps use the heat from the battery to heat the cabin. I very much doubt a Hybrid battery would develop enough heat to make a heat pump viable.
However, I am sure Honda has made cabin heating effective. After all, Japan has bitterly cold winters (Winter Olympics).
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An air source heat pump or reverse cycle air conditioning has about a 2:1 gain, but does not perform well at lower temperatures ( below about 5deg C )
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I'm a little surprised that, given all the technology packed under the bonnet, Honda didn't include an inverter controlled electrical aircon / heat pump. They must have one in the parts store for the Honda e but perhaps they were worried by the prospect of people sitting in the vehicle for sustained periods, going nowhere but draining the battery.
Honda-e is a full electric vehicle, so there are two ways to heat the cabin, one is a PTC heater, other is a heat pump; since the PTC resistor is less efficient, they use a heat pump.
Jazz and CR-V are hybrid vehicles, with an about 1,3kw lithium ion battery used to have the petrol engine run in best efficiency range. So they have lots of heat coming from the petrol engine, heat that would be wasted when not used for the cabin.
Why should Honda use a heat pump in its hybrids to heat the cabin, using the petrol engine to generate electricity (and wasting heat that could be easily used) to move the heat pump in a less efficient process?
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Jazz and CR-V are hybrid vehicles, with an about 1,3kw lithium ion battery used to have the petrol engine run in best efficiency range. So they have lots of heat coming from the petrol engine, heat that would be wasted when not used for the cabin.
Why should Honda use a heat pump in its hybrids to heat the cabin, using the petrol engine to generate electricity (and wasting heat that could be easily used) to move the heat pump in a less efficient process?
Using engine heat is fine once the engine has warmed up but running the engine on a cold day just to provide heating is going to make a big hit on the fuel economy, especially during the first few miles when the engine itself is cold and needs extra fuel to run properly. I wait to see what happens in reality. The CR-V has been provided with thermostatically-controlled lourvres on the front of the engine compartment to reduce the inflow of very cold air and help the engine warm up more quickly but this feature isn't provided on the Mk 4 Jazz.
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I suspect that the engine will run in cold weather to provide heating, the manual implies that the system may take longer to initialise in very cold weather (see attachment), I also suspect that in cold weather the range in EV mode would be reduced so the engine would run more.
I had a look at the online manual and the cold weather temperatures it quotes are -30c and -40c. So it's not going to be a problem in the UK.
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The main purpose of mobile louvres is to have a better aerodynamic, Jazz does not have this and other useful features to keep it cheap. A device present on some Honda hybrids is the heat exchanger used to exctract heat from exaust gas, placed after the kat converter; Accord and CR-V hybrid (both with a 2.0l engine) have it, while other hybrids with the 1.5l does not fit it, Insight and probably Jazz. Same reason, Jazz would become too expensive with all this feauters.
About the heat pump... Having it would mean to have a complicated compressor, an inverter and a bigger battery if you want the compressor to run with the petrol engine off and this would hardly prevent the petrol engine to run, because the heat pump need energy; they could use a bigger battery but this bigger battery should be recharged. Is this a good idea for a cheap car, considering that this would be useful only in the first 3-4 minutes of usage?
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I suspect that the engine will run in cold weather to provide heating, the manual implies that the system may take longer to initialise in very cold weather (see attachment),
Surely it will do it, the system is not so different from Toyotas...
I also suspect that in cold weather the range in EV mode would be reduced so the engine would run more.
Also this will happen, even if this is not an EV vehicle so you won't have to force it in EV mode.
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Using engine heat is fine once the engine has warmed up but running the engine on a cold day just to provide heating is going to make a big hit on the fuel economy, especially during the first few miles when the engine itself is cold and needs extra fuel to run properly. I wait to see what happens in reality. The CR-V has been provided with thermostatically-controlled lourvres on the front of the engine compartment to reduce the inflow of very cold air and help the engine warm up more quickly but this feature isn't provided on the Mk 4 Jazz.
With every combustion engine it is advisable and beneficial for fuel economy as well as to reduce engine wear to use mains electric engine pre-heater (block heater or hose type) when temperature drops below freezing point. For sure some type of pre-heater is possible to install to GR Jazz engine.
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Great for your local but not worth the effort here. Last winter we had about 3 or 4 nights where the temperature fell below zero. Add to that, most cars are parked in the street. Nice to have the heater working as soon as you get in though.
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Yes I know it is not suitable for street parking and rather overexaggerating for UK weather, but nevertheless useful if someone wants to keep the fuel consupmtion, emissions and engine wear low and get heater working immediately. Some say that it is worthwhile to pre-heat already in +5 C, only 30-40 minutes is enough.
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In principle I agree that pre-warming is a good idea but one might discover that the cost of the electricity used is more than the value of petrol saved. Keeping the vehicle in a garage is another option (but where would I put all the clutter) and either option doesn't work when away from home.
I'm disappointed, however, that Honda haven't provided special measures to help the engine compartment warm up more quickly given that included something on the CR-V. Perhaps they couldn't squeeze something in.
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In principle I agree that pre-warming is a good idea but one might discover that the cost of the electricity used is more than the value of petrol saved.
That need to be calculated based on local prices and fuel consumption of the car in case of a cold start. Here the cost of one hour pre-heating with standard 500 W block heater equals to cost of 0,1 liter petrol, which can easily be saved when starting a warmish engine instead of a cold one.