Author Topic: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating  (Read 5233 times)

pavkata5

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Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« on: March 06, 2021, 05:48:31 PM »
Hello,

I have overheating problem on my Jazz that seems non-standard and the car services toke from me a bucket of money and cannot find what's on.

The problem arise only only when I'm on motorway, above 3000 RPMs and especially when climbing hill for more than few mins (when the load on the engine is higher  for 5-7  mins).

On the motorway I have attached OBD2 and monitoring the engine coolant temperature with Torque lite app it shows temperature is range 105 - 115 degrees, Celsius, when reach to 118 immediately the red lamp for overheating start blinking and I release the gas pedal. This happens with and without the AC on.

So far in the car service they've changed the coolant liquid, radiator cap, coolant temperature sensor, water pump and thermostat and the problem persists.

I have read that there is cooling fan switch that may cause a such problem, but don't know if a such exist on my car (I've found only records for i-DSI engines on Jazz up to 2008, but nothing for 2010 IVTEC )


Do you have any idea for the cooling fan switch  or maybe what may be causing my problem?

p.s. more than 10k km in the city this issue never appear, happens only on higher speeds on motorways




culzean

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2021, 06:55:28 PM »
Hello,

I have overheating problem on my Jazz that seems non-standard and the car services toke from me a bucket of money and cannot find what's on.

The problem arise only only when I'm on motorway, above 3000 RPMs and especially when climbing hill for more than few mins (when the load on the engine is higher  for 5-7  mins).

On the motorway I have attached OBD2 and monitoring the engine coolant temperature with Torque lite app it shows temperature is range 105 - 115 degrees, Celsius, when reach to 118 immediately the red lamp for overheating start blinking and I release the gas pedal. This happens with and without the AC on.

So far in the car service they've changed the coolant liquid, radiator cap, coolant temperature sensor, water pump and thermostat and the problem persists.

I have read that there is cooling fan switch that may cause a such problem, but don't know if a such exist on my car (I've found only records for i-DSI engines on Jazz up to 2008, but nothing for 2010 IVTEC )


Do you have any idea for the cooling fan switch  or maybe what may be causing my problem?

p.s. more than 10k km in the city this issue never appear, happens only on higher speeds on motorways

The one place you don't need the fan is on the motorway, the airflow through the radiator will be plenty at motorway speed.  The fan on any Honda I ever had never really came on, even in heavy traffic, but when you turn aircon both fans ( LH and RH side of car ) come on, the aircon rad runs the full width of car in front of the engine cooling radiator.  Has anyone checked if the radiator airflow is blocked,  sometimes when people use a pressure washer on the radiator the fins get all bent and block the airflow.  the other thing is the EGR valve opens at over 3000 revs to allow exhaust gas into inlet manifold to cool down the combustion ( this reduces nitrous oxide emissions ) maybe EGR is not opening.

There is no way the engine should overheat in winter time,  it is normally in heavy traffic on a really hot day, but Honda sorted the cooling pretty well.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2021, 07:10:12 PM »
Like culzean, the fan on my Mk 1 has never come on in five years motoring. Blocked air flow would cause overheating, but why only on the motorway and not in town I don't understand. An issue with the EGR would show at higher revs, so it would be more likely to be seen on the motorway. Strip and clean the EGR valve and go from there.

sparky Paul

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2021, 07:40:54 PM »
A clogged up EGR can certainly cause overheating under high load, so it's worth checking.

The symptoms could also be caused by a restricted flow around the radiator circuit - rad can be sludged up by mixing coolant types. I always give the block and the radiator a good flushing when changing the coolant the first time after I buy a car, make sure it flows freely.

Jocko

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2021, 07:52:19 PM »
The symptoms could also be caused by a restricted flow around the radiator circuit - rad can be sludged up by mixing coolant types.
It is the fact it only overheats on the motorway and not around town. It looks like it is revs related.

sparky Paul

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2021, 08:32:39 PM »
The symptoms could also be caused by a restricted flow around the radiator circuit - rad can be sludged up by mixing coolant types.
It is the fact it only overheats on the motorway and not around town. It looks like it is revs related.

I've seen exactly the same symptoms with a clogged, but not completely blocked, radiator.

At high revs/load, you are pumping far more heat into the system, and no amount of air blowing through the rad will get it away if the coolant isn't flowing properly through the rad, even if it can cope at lower engine output. When load is low, temperature drops, and the thermostat closes down anyway, the heater matrix dumps much of the heat produced.

If I have any suspicion about the thermostat or rad circuit flow, I now use a infra-red thermometer to watch what's going on when the engine comes up to temperature.

It could still be the EGR though.

pavkata5

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2021, 09:17:57 PM »
The first thing I did was to try washing the radiator at car wash garage, with low water pressure.
We did it twice as much as we could but to be honest maybe the effect wasn't very good.
I admit have to take off the front bumper to achieve better result.

Today I unscrewed the EGR and checking it it looked good without soot /as shown for clogged EGR in Internet/. Anyway I have bought EGT cleaning spay will try to clean it tomorrow.

Thank you for the advises.
Will follow up with the results.

pavkata5

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2021, 08:37:48 AM »
I've cleaned the EGR but there was almost no carbon soot on it.
Potentially the water radiator is bad.
Will keep you posted on the progress.


Jazzmeister

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2021, 01:57:23 PM »
When the temp light comes on is the radiator fan switching on and running?

And what are the ambient temps when it happens?

I've always been very impressed with Honda cooling but on one very hot day towing a heavy trailer I did manage to over heat a Honda, it didn't suffer any ill effects but it can happen.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 01:59:12 PM by Jazzmeister »
Mk I 2007 Honda Jazz 1.5 CVT | Previous car - Mk II 2012 Honda Jazz 1.3 Cvt

pavkata5

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2021, 05:55:38 PM »
Today over heated it even on 3 degrees Celsius outside.
Every time when I stop and open the cover, just after the overheating lamp has come on, the fans are not working.

If I start the AC then the fans start working for some time, then stop, and so on again.

I did the following test:
The car is on neutral and stand.
OBD2 tool reads engine cooler temperature  - 108 degrees Celsius, fans are not working.
I hold the gas pedal for a while, an as soon as the tool shows 110 degrees, they turn on.
...
On 118 red temperature indicator start blinking.
Just 8 degrees between fan start working and overheating is improper if what shows the OBD2 tool is correct.

This is why I'm wondering if my Jaz has cooling fan switch OEM Part number 3776-P00-003. It is said a such issue may arise because of it.




sparky Paul

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2021, 06:21:29 PM »
Something strange going on there. Fans should run at coolant temp of 93°C, and as culzean said earlier, you shouldn't be overheating at motorway speeds with 3°C ambient, or even needing the fan.

Which temperature sensor has been replaced - the one in the head, or the one in the front of the radiator? What's the readings from the two sensors? A low temp reading from the bottom sensor could still be caused by constricted flow, but I would swap anyway.

Cooling system troubleshooting here

http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/en/html_en/index17.html

http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/

Jocko

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2021, 06:27:38 PM »
3776-P00-003 is the sensor for the Civic. Jazz parts don't recognise it.

https://www.parts-honda.uk/honda-cars/JAZZ

sparky Paul

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2021, 06:52:21 PM »
I think the two sensors are the same part no. 37870-RWC-A01

Jazz doesn't have a fan switch like earlier Civic (3776-P00-003), it is switched by the ECU using the two temp senders.

http://hondafitjazz.com/manual3/en/html_en/000000000000032.html
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 06:57:04 PM by sparky Paul »

knobbly

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2021, 09:36:20 PM »
Given the history of the EGR in the Jazz, that has to be the favourite. Otherwise perhaps the water pump impeller or pulley spinning on shaft, I have seen this once before.  Then given your list of efforts so far, try Steel Seal as its not expensive and for water jacket into combustion chamber issues it works well. If not cured by the above you are entering onto the world of pain with the head having to come off or even cracked.

sparky Paul

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Re: Jazz 1339cc, IVTEC, 2010 - overheating
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2021, 10:34:48 PM »
I think the OP has had a new water pump, rad cap, thermostat and temp sender fitted.

Not sure about HGF, these cars with wet valve rad caps have a habit of blowing coolant into the coolant reservoir if they pressurise, and there's no mention of anything untoward there.

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