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Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Mr Onion on March 19, 2023, 05:13:35 PM

Title: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Mr Onion on March 19, 2023, 05:13:35 PM
A siren-like alert will be sent to mobile phone users across the UK next month to test a new government public warning system.

It allows the government and emergency services to send urgent messages warning the public of life-threatening situations like flooding or wildfires.

The test is expected to take place in the early evening of 23 April.

Phone users will have to acknowledge the alert before they can use other features on their devices.

A message will appear on the home screens of people's devices during the test, with vibration and a loud warning sound that will ring for about 10 seconds, even if the phone is set to silent.

The system - which became operational on Sunday - is being modelled on similar schemes used in the US, Canada, Japan and The Netherlands.

Messages would only ever come from the government or emergency services and will initially focus on the most serious weather-related events, with the ability to get a message to 90% of mobile users within the relevant area.

Source (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64999417)
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on March 19, 2023, 05:53:53 PM
I saw that.

Even with your phone on silent or do not disturb it can override it.

Depending on the time I may just turn my phone off.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Mr Onion on March 19, 2023, 05:56:08 PM
I would expect that the alert would arrive as soon as you turn it on again, much the same as a text message does
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: IanG on March 19, 2023, 06:09:55 PM
Be useful to provide alerts when tomatoes and peppers are available within the locale!
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Jocko on March 19, 2023, 06:14:18 PM
You know what will happen? They will send it out nationwide then no one will be able to use their mobile phone for the following few days while they sort the snags out.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: embee on March 19, 2023, 06:26:07 PM
Big brother??

So they make your phone do stuff even if you don't want it to. Hmmmm ...........

Each to their own, but my phone gets switched on ONLY when I want to use it, otherwise it is off ............... or at least I think it's off .............
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Lord Voltermore on March 20, 2023, 10:57:09 AM
A cunning plan to weed out those without a smart  phone.  They may get no other warning of an emergency situation such as a flood or forest fire  and be left to  drown or roast  :P.

And how long before hackers  put out false alarms causing panic  because the government has taken the cheapest bid on programming, security,etc or appointed one of their cronys with no experience  or developers controlled  by a hostile foreign state.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: aphybrid on March 20, 2023, 11:21:15 AM
early 1950 theree used to be siren alerts throughout the UK, these were to 'practise' for nuclear attacks. Schools and public information films gave guidence about hiding under tables, away from windows etc.
I have found this re-mastered film Also old nuclear bunkers open to the public run these.

Maybe this new signal is a fore-taste of what is coming??
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Marco1979 on March 20, 2023, 03:23:05 PM
In NL these sirens are also present. They are tested every month on the first Monday at noon for as long as I can remember. Simultaneously you also get a message on your phone which makes a lot of noise. It overrides all other apps, just as a regular iPhone event would do.

You get used to it. Eventually...

Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Bazzzer on March 20, 2023, 04:08:51 PM
There's a siren test at a government establishment near us every Monday at 10am GMT.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on March 20, 2023, 05:26:30 PM
Early evening. What time roughly ?

Some parents trying to get babies to sleep and that racket goes off on maybe 2 phones.

Shift workers.

Their should be an opt out for those who this will inconvenience. Will it keep going till acknowledged or is it timed off ?

Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: nowster on March 21, 2023, 10:38:06 AM
It can be easily turned off.

On Android phones:

Go to Settings, search for "Alerts", select anything in the "Emergency Alerts" category then toggle "Allow Alerts" off.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Mr Onion on March 21, 2023, 10:53:33 AM
Early evening. What time roughly ?

Some parents trying to get babies to sleep and that racket goes off on maybe 2 phones.

Shift workers.

Their should be an opt out for those who this will inconvenience. Will it keep going till acknowledged or is it timed off ?

All very good points, imagine all of the hospitals medical staffs phones going off all together, let alone those of the patients
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: ColinB on March 21, 2023, 12:02:40 PM
These comments seem to be missing the point. This is all about emergency alerts that will be used when there's a danger to life. And you want to turn them off?
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Jocko on March 21, 2023, 12:07:31 PM
These comments seem to be missing the point. This is all about emergency alerts that will be used when there's a danger to life. And you want to turn them off?
And it is only a one-off test.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Wilmo on March 21, 2023, 04:08:59 PM
And how long before hackers  put out false alarms causing panic  because the government has taken the cheapest bid on programming, security,etc or appointed one of their cronys with no experience  or developers controlled  by a hostile foreign state.
What like Capita who seem to bugger up everything they touch?
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: embee on March 21, 2023, 06:28:14 PM
These comments seem to be missing the point. This is all about emergency alerts that will be used when there's a danger to life. And you want to turn them off?
Not wishing to be contrary, but I genuinely can't think of a realistic UK emergency where such a system would be practically useful.
We don't have tsunamis, nor major earthquakes, nor volcanic eruptions, flash floods are rarely unexpected (there's usually decent weather warning or prolonged rainfall beforehand). It wouldn't be any use with terror attacks like London Bridge or the Manchester Arena, and as for nuclear missile attacks ........ what on earth would anyone do anyway?
Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Jocko on March 21, 2023, 07:23:59 PM
Lynmouth Flood of 1952. The North Sea flood of 1953. Boscastle 2004. Whaley Bridge 2019.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: embee on March 21, 2023, 10:49:12 PM
But that's the thing, tidal events are well predicted (North Sea 1953), weather events are well predicted and forewarned (Lynmouth 1952 - quote - Like so many natural disasters the Lynmouth flood was not caused by a single factor or event.  A wide range of things occurred during the previous two weeks and during the night of August 15th – 16th 1952 which combined to cause the tragedy.)
Boscastle was more or less pre-warned by several hours and back in 2004 there wasn't the social media that there is now.
Whaley Bridge dam was warned about in advance (BBC - The collapse of a dam which almost flooded Whaley Bridge was caused by poor design and a lack of maintenance, an official report has found.
An engineer had inspected Toddbrook Reservoir and warned its owners about problems with the auxiliary spillway just months before it collapsed.
However, the owners, the Canal and River Trust, had not done any repair work by the time of the collapse.)

I'm sure social media will do the job today. I still don't really see what a shotgun style emergency alert will achieve, but hey, it makes it look like someone is doing "something", you know the saying, "something must be done, this is something, therefore it must be done".

Maybe I'm just too cynical in my old age. Bring on the sirens.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: ColinB on March 22, 2023, 07:34:42 AM
I don’t think it’s helpful to dismiss this on the hubristic basis that it’ll never be useful. It’s an additional communication channel that may be useful in certain circumstances; if you’re right then it’ll never be used, but it’s there if needed.

In the examples you dismiss, emergency personnel had to risk themselves rescuing people and sadly there was loss of life. If the incidents were as well foreshadowed as your hindsight suggests, why did that happen? I suspect there was complacency, an attitude that the authorities were crying wolf. Perhaps an alert system like this that broadcast something like “It’s happening NOW, head for high ground NOW” would have persuaded the naysayers into action.

I don’t buy the social media argument ... that’s voluntary and not everyone will get timely warnings that way. A big advantage of this new system is that it’s localised, which social media isn’t. Anyone in an area affected by an incident might get an alert advising action they should take; anyone just outside that area might get a different message advising not to travel into it.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Mr Onion on March 22, 2023, 09:04:54 AM
I'm sure social media will do the job today.

What about those of us who are not on, and who will never be on, social media?

(and yes I realise that the same argument can be used for those not having a smart phone)

It’s an additional communication channel that may be useful in certain circumstances; if you’re right then it’ll never be used, but it’s there if needed.

Exactly. The incident it where it will be most helpful is the one that no once has even considered yet
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: embee on March 22, 2023, 10:12:05 AM
OK, I take the points. I never ever dismiss loss of life nor valiant efforts of emergency service personnel. My thoughts were that such instances as referenced were all predicted at the time, it's not just my hindsight, and today the predictions would be far more accurate.

The facts are that people ignore warnings, both chronic (this situation is likely to get worse and you'd be well advised to take precautionary action) and acute (it's happening now and jump to it!). How often have you witnessed a fire alarm go off and people just look at each other and think "is this really happening or is it just a false alarm, I'll just sit here for a bit longer and see if anyone else does anything."

We see numerous examples time and again of people ignoring specific warnings of approaching forest fires and waiting till the last moment before trying to drive through the flames, California for example. People don't even take any notice of red crosses showing closed lanes on motorways.

I know i'm a congenital skeptic, but I'll make a prediction that if it ever gets used in anger, most people will ignore it anyway. I still can't really think of a national emergency situation in which it would actually achieve anything, when it goes off what exactly are we supposed to do? I hope I'm wrong.

At the very least it can't really make things any worse I suppose, and as you say it might just save one life.

A warning sent to mobile phones when a driver tries to use one might be a good idea.

Best wishes to all  :)
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: richardfrost on March 22, 2023, 10:58:47 AM
Here in the Calder Valley we can be subject to vicious, life and property threatening floods, with very little notice. The Boxing Day floods of 2015 arrived over night and caused severe damage to property. Businesses were lost, homes destroyed or damaged forcing the occupants out for up to a year.

Lessons have been learned and flood defences have been improved. Lots of homes and businesses in vulnerable locations have flood barriers that can be put in place. But you need to know when to do that.

It is deemed necessary to have a flood alert system, which uses Air Raid sirens in place from the Cold War. To someone like me who grew up in the 60s and. 70s, the sound of those sirens is chilling to the bone. They are tested regularly but because of the unique geography of our local valley system, they cannot be heard clearly everywhere or indoors.

This system would be ideal for localised warning with the ability to provide specific information. I support this alert technology and welcome the testing scheme.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Lord Voltermore on March 22, 2023, 11:27:20 AM
If you see everyone else heading for the hills follow them.  ;D   I have been in a few nuclear bunkers.  If it ever came to that, or living through the after effects I'd rather just accept my fate.   

Those heading for the hills will often be jabbering on their phones..  No one seems able to think for themselves these days . I used to think of there being a village idiot.   Since  social media and smart phones I now realise every village must have  hundreds of them.     
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: nowster on March 22, 2023, 11:39:07 AM
People don't even take any notice of red crosses showing closed lanes on motorways.

Up until the HADECS camera on the gantry flashes them and they get an automatic 6 points and a fine.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on March 22, 2023, 11:45:25 AM
I know Hadecs3 cameras accurately trap speeders but I wasn't aware they can trap red X infringements.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Wilmo on March 22, 2023, 02:05:37 PM
I think that is part of the upgraded "smart" motorway infrastructure.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on March 22, 2023, 02:12:57 PM
According to Surrey Police the Hadecs cameras don't trap closed lanes.

However, Hadecs are more finely tuned than older cameras and newer Monitrons and Truvelos.

A friend got fined on the M25 for a true speed of 72mph and when he queried  it they said his speedometer, due to legislation at the time, would have been reading 75 or greater so he had no excuse.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Wilmo on March 22, 2023, 06:01:51 PM
Pete, take a look at this

https://hub.1stcentralinsurance.com/rules-of-the-road/new-motorway-cameras-could-fine-you-100-for-ignoring-closed-lanes#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThere's%20no%20eXcuse%20%E2%80%93%20don',and%20could%20incur%20hefty%20fines.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Jocko on March 22, 2023, 06:24:16 PM
It says "Motorway cameras" but doesn't refer to the speed cameras. I know up here we have speed cameras as well as other cameras monitoring traffic flow and lane violations. Plus ANPR cameras.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on March 23, 2023, 04:15:21 AM
On the newly finished M4 the Hadecs are well spaced out but there are more 'grey' cameras that I reckon are probably ANPR. These are probably more suited.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Lord Voltermore on March 23, 2023, 09:50:39 AM
So you never quite know what little box  may be monitoring you .  My advice is always look your best, keep smiling for the camera ,  ,and novel concept here, try not to break the law. ;D  And, getting back to topic. If your phone gives an alert whilst you are driving, only respond to it  if you are on hands free.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: nowster on March 23, 2023, 10:35:03 AM
On the newly finished M4 the Hadecs are well spaced out but there are more 'grey' cameras that I reckon are probably ANPR. These are probably more suited.

Grey cameras are probably for the control room monitoring. Little white cylinders on poles are radar scanners.

The HADECS3 cameras are usually in yellow boxes on the left side of gantries with the variable speed signs on them. There is another camera about 50m before them which takes a photo as proof of the state of the signs at the same time as you're being flashed.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on March 23, 2023, 11:41:58 AM
Yes, I've seen them all and noted between junctions 3 and 10.

For my sins I'm a speed camera verifier over on PocketGPSWorld and I've been keeping their database up to date with the comings and goings of the Specs cameras 50, and 60mph during the roadworks.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on March 23, 2023, 02:49:11 PM
After checking it seems that the RedflexHadecs3 cameras are in line to be converted to capture speeding and redX infringements on Smart Motorways.

At the moment though the majority are not type approved until their software is upgraded and they are tested.

Considering the very few numbers of Hadecs on Smart Motorways not all are going to be caught anyway.

On the 22 mile stretch of the M4 between J3 and J10 there are 8 Westbound and 9 Eastbound.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: richardfrost on March 24, 2023, 03:02:40 PM
Never underestimate the ability of this group to go completely off topic.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on March 24, 2023, 03:09:25 PM
It's what we're good at :)
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: ColinB on March 24, 2023, 04:32:39 PM
Never underestimate the ability of this group to go completely off topic.

Isn't commenting that we're going off topic, actually going off topic?  ;D
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Mr Onion on March 24, 2023, 04:42:14 PM
Never underestimate the ability of this group to go completely off topic.

Isn't commenting that we're going off topic, actually going off topic?  ;D

No that is on topic. You would only be going off topic if you were commenting about the comment about going off topic.

However, if you pointed out that this post was off topic, that would be on topic

......... I think

Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Lord Voltermore on March 24, 2023, 04:52:22 PM
Stop talking about chocolate bars. Topic bars are no longer made.  Now that really is off Topic. :P or is it?
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: RichardA on March 26, 2023, 11:18:02 AM
There's a siren test at a government establishment near us every Monday at 10am GMT.


I lived about five miles as the crow files from Broadmoor back in the 90s. Sometimes you could hear the siren test every Monday at 10am.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Mr Onion on March 26, 2023, 11:38:59 AM
Up until the early 70's we were within 4 miles of Broadmoor, and it was just normal to hear the siren test.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Lord Voltermore on March 26, 2023, 12:15:15 PM
There's a siren test at a government establishment near us every Monday at 10am GMT.


I lived about five miles as the crow files from Broadmoor back in the 90s. Sometimes you could hear the siren test every Monday at 10am.
   Yes thats when I made my escape. Everyone ignored the siren.   ;D  It got like that with unreliable diy fit car alarms. 
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: ColinB on April 23, 2023, 08:03:27 PM
So did anyone else NOT get this exciting emergency message this afternoon? I'm with Smarty, which is part of Three, and by all accounts the Three network failed dismally. Looks like we're all doomed in a real emergency ...
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Jocko on April 23, 2023, 08:20:25 PM
The government has decided they cannot save everybody so you have obviously been chosen to sacrifice your all for the good of the rest od us. Sorry, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on April 24, 2023, 04:34:42 AM
30 secs early for me.

My provider uses O2
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Wilmo on April 24, 2023, 08:06:47 AM
Switched off the alerts.

With all the hype & publicity over the last few weeks I didn't need it to actually happen on my phone.
Alerts now back so on so if the sh1t hits the fan I will find out.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Jocko on April 24, 2023, 09:31:01 AM
Switched off the alerts.

With all the hype & publicity over the last few weeks I didn't need it to actually happen on my phone.
Alerts now back so on so if the sh1t hits the fan I will find out.
Unless of course, you were one of those who didn't get the alert and may not get the real thing!
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on April 24, 2023, 09:32:19 AM
I did consider turning it off but then decided not to so I would know what to expect.

The sound is unique from anything else so even if I don't look I'll know.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Wilmo on April 24, 2023, 11:19:17 AM
Switched off the alerts.

With all the hype & publicity over the last few weeks I didn't need it to actually happen on my phone.
Alerts now back so on so if the sh1t hits the fan I will find out.
Unless of course, you were one of those who didn't get the alert and may not get the real thing!

On Voxi, part of Vodafone.
Not been flagged as failed unlike 3
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Thingy on April 24, 2023, 12:27:32 PM
So did anyone else NOT get this exciting emergency message this afternoon? I'm with Smarty, which is part of Three, and by all accounts the Three network failed dismally. Looks like we're all doomed in a real emergency ...

My wife and I are with Smarty and did not get the alert.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on April 24, 2023, 12:28:28 PM
Smarty uses the 3 network
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: nowster on April 24, 2023, 01:23:01 PM
The sound is unique from anything else so even if I don't look I'll know.

I think it's supposed to be similar to the US Emergency Alert tones on radio and TV.

And I received it (EE Network, Manchester) 45 seconds early, according to the metadata recorded on the phone.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Jocko on April 24, 2023, 01:41:43 PM
My phone allowed me to preview the alert sound in Notifications, but since the alert, I can no longer preview it. I have also had issues with calls since  and my wife was logged out of her Hive account on her iPhone (Vodafone).
Switching my phone off and on made no difference.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: HertsHonda on April 24, 2023, 02:26:38 PM
No Alert received on my 3 year old Sony Xperia XA2 - Android 9.
But then Gov web site hints that I may need Android 11!
I don't feel like throwing out an O.K. phone. Can I get a new one on the NHS? Or set it against Income Tax?
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Lord Voltermore on April 24, 2023, 04:29:27 PM
Can I get a new one on the NHS?
Not a phone  but you can order tablets on the NHS  or 'my gp' apps on your smartphone  ;) ;D  Assuming you have  a new enough smartphone for the apps to work.  In which case you wont need to update anyway   A vicious circle designed to eliminate  those without the latest smartphones.  ;D   

I was a bit annoyed the voice alert element  had an american accent.  Probably AI generated.   But a northern English version "EE by gum lad   theers t' trouble at t'mill"  alert  message wouldn't be suit everyone either .   :P 
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on April 24, 2023, 04:39:27 PM
My alert was just a 'tone' no voice
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Jocko on April 24, 2023, 07:22:48 PM
My alert was just a 'tone' no voice
Me too. My phone is an old "el cheapo" Vodafone V10 running on Android 9 and it worked. I believe it is iPhones that need iOS 11 or above. Currently iOS 16 I believe.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Kremmen on April 25, 2023, 04:53:26 AM
Mine is the latest Samsung S23 but still just a tone !
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: ColinB on April 25, 2023, 07:54:14 AM
My phone is an old "el cheapo" Vodafone V10 running on Android 9 and it worked. I believe it is iPhones that need iOS 11 or above. Currently iOS 16 I believe.

It’s not the model of 4G/5G phone that’s relevant, but the version of the OS.
https://www.gov.uk/alerts/how-alerts-work#compatible-devices
So Android 11 or above (earlier versions may still get it, presumably depending on individual builds), and iOS 14.5 or above.
Plus, of course, a network provider that can actually manage to transmit the alert message properly.
Title: Re: Public emergency alerts to be sent to all UK mobile phones
Post by: Lord Voltermore on April 25, 2023, 09:31:36 AM
Well I got a voice message  as well. My phone was in another room. By the time I reached it the voice message was playing automatically.   I only heard the very end  but I assume it was the same as the written one 
 Maybe its just my network,  or perhaps it was a setting on my phone and it was the phone that transcribed the text into speech. I've never had a speech message before  so such a function is new territory for me :-[