Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Saucebox on March 15, 2023, 04:47:16 PM

Title: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Saucebox on March 15, 2023, 04:47:16 PM
I'm about to order the 2023 facelifted iteration. It wouid appear that the Elegance version has exactly the same spec list goodies on it as the Advance model, the ONLY difference being the size of the wheels. My question: WHICH SIZE COPES BETTER WITH POTHOLES, THE SMALLER  OR THE LARGER SIZE WHEEL?
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: PaultheManc on March 15, 2023, 05:39:16 PM
Definitely prefer the 15" on my Mk4 compared with 16" on my Mk2. Softer ride, less jarring, soaks up bumps much better - but I am not a boy racer.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Marco1979 on March 15, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
I have 16 inch on my Crosstar. Mk4 has quite a comfy suspension compared to Mk1, 2 and 3. So it copes well with potholes etc. 15 inch will be even more comfy though.
I would prefer 16, because of the way it looks.

Maybe you could give it a try during a test drive?
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Kremmen on March 16, 2023, 04:52:43 AM
Both the 15" and 16" have the same rolling circumference so the 15" tyres have a slightly deeper tyre wall = more flex = a more pliant ride.

If I had a choice it would be 15"
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: shufty on March 16, 2023, 06:56:00 AM
...It's weird that you say two models are identical spec wise with the only difference being wheel size  :-X
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Jocko on March 16, 2023, 01:59:51 PM
...It's weird that you say two models are identical spec wise with the only difference being wheel size  :-X
It is actually quite common among manufacturers.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: shufty on March 16, 2023, 02:24:32 PM
...Why bother with the different designations then? just say which wheel size you want upon ordering.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Deejay on March 16, 2023, 05:45:24 PM
A quick look at the specs on the Listers site suggests to me that the Elegance doesn’t get the heated steering wheel, blind spot monitoring or privacy glass.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Expatman on March 16, 2023, 10:08:38 PM
A quick look at the specs on the Listers site suggests to me that the Elegance doesn’t get the heated steering wheel, blind spot monitoring or privacy glass.
I can never understand why many manufacturers let you opt, at added price, for larger wheels with lower profile tyres but they never provide the option to go for smaller wheels with higher profile tyres. Why not?
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Kremmen on March 17, 2023, 02:55:37 AM
Also, you pay for different wheels at what looks like full price even though they get to keep the standard wheels ?
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Lord Voltermore on March 17, 2023, 11:15:11 AM
I have two sets of wheels, 15" on all season tyres and 16" on summer tyres.  TBH I dont notice that much difference  on rough roads that cant be explained by different brands of tyre, rather than side wall height etc.  I dont rely on my tyres to 'cope' with potholes. I either avoid them, or drive through them extremely carefully and slowly.

15" wheels have tyres with higher side walls, which may give more resilience and a better  ride  on rougher roads. Maybe a slight advantage if you push your luck with potholes. It could be argued that this better ride may be deceptive, and encourage you to take potholes less seriously and drive a bit faster. Which soon cancels out any advantage.  I have noticed that in India and Eastern Europe its often the off road vehicles, and luxury vehicles that suffer tyre and suspension damage more often than modest hatchbacks.And much more expensive to repair.  Their drivers assume they are immune from potholes  and drive too fast.  Impact damage  increases by the square of velocity.    You hit  a pothole 4 x as hard at 10mph than you do at 5mph. 

Forget any notion that 16" wheels are  larger diameter  , and can span or exit a pothole more easily.  The overall rolling circumference  is near enough the same on 14",15" 16" ,17" inch  or 18".due to tyre profile changes.  17 and 18" wheels  require increasingly  low profile tyres that makes the tyre and wheel more susceptible to sharp strike damage,  but the problem is less on 16".

If I could chose  one size it would be 15", the tyres can be significantly  cheaper if one does get damaged.  16" wouldnt entice me to upgrade trim level unless it was a significant improvment in appearence. 
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Nicksey on March 17, 2023, 02:22:58 PM
I initially took out the SR as a demo car. I had it for two days, and used it on all the roads I knew to be my regular runs. This was fitted with 15".

I bought the EX Style, which is fitted with 16" wheels. I preferred the look of the car and the extras were what I was accustomed to with my previous Renaults.. so I wasn't prepared to go backwards in spec.

My honest opinion is I noticed no difference in drive, comfort or handling whatsoever from the 15" to the 16". The diamond cut alloys look a million miles better than the plastic top loading washer mangle fan thing that is fitted to 15".
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Jazzik on March 17, 2023, 02:57:19 PM
The diamond cut alloys look a million miles better than the plastic top loading washer mangle fan thing

I think the plastic top loading washer mangle fan things sets our Jazz apart from all those 'ordinary' cars with their common (even when they are diamond cut) alloys.
The Jazz EX: a special car with an EXclusive wheel design.  ;D
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Nicksey on March 17, 2023, 04:24:21 PM
The diamond cut alloys look a million miles better than the plastic top loading washer mangle fan thing

I think the plastic top loading washer mangle fan things sets our Jazz apart from all those 'ordinary' cars with their common (even when they are diamond cut) alloys.
The Jazz EX: a special car with an EXclusive wheel design.  ;D

I wonder why so many are removing them, and going for the all black naked look then?  8)
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Jazzik on March 17, 2023, 06:35:22 PM
So many...? How many did you see with the all black "naked" look? Me here not one.
And yes, you are right, undressing the wheels makes the Jazz look "naked", like without (https://em-content.zobj.net/thumbs/120/sony/336/briefs_1fa72.png)...

Naked:(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMETTISjwfaxezNVVo3knyEf-ngIbCUR352A&usqp=CAU)(https://em-content.zobj.net/thumbs/120/sony/336/thumbs-down_dark-skin-tone_1f44e-1f3ff_1f3ff.png)   and:   neatly dressed(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUxdPIE9de-7XRxPbwo6xNOxGRYpatsYX7xvM24wz5h_-6P2BRS6KtvE9mbnr5NUw-bBg&usqp=CAU)(https://em-content.zobj.net/thumbs/120/sony/336/thumbs-up_1f44d.png)

(https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a068.gif)
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: shufty on March 17, 2023, 09:09:22 PM
...Naked?, maybe. Better? definitely  ;D
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Jazzik on March 17, 2023, 09:42:21 PM
So you've removed the "clothes" from your wheels and are driving around embarrassingly naked?:-[
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: shufty on March 18, 2023, 07:24:07 AM
...As it happens I don't feel embarrassed. You should though with your incessant harping on about it  :-*
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Jazzik on March 18, 2023, 10:24:28 AM
Maybe you missed one  ;D ;) (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/froehlich/a068.gif) here and there?
By the way... for those who are so annoyed by those 'plastic top loading washer mangle fan things' and are incessantly harping on about it (that's what I react on, I don't start about their beauty myself): why didn't you opt for the optional (even 'diamond cut'!!!) alloys? ;)
(https://em-content.zobj.net/thumbs/120/sony/336/down-arrow_2b07-fe0f.png)
(https://www.honda.pl/content/dam/central/cars/jazz-hybrid/Honda-Jazz-Hybrid-16Inch-ALLOY-WHEEL.png/_jcr_content/renditions/c4.png)
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: 5thcivic on March 18, 2023, 07:39:56 PM
I especially paid for the 15in alloys on the EX. Virtually every review of the Jazz I read or saw said the 15in coped better on the poor state of UK roads.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Expatman on March 18, 2023, 10:03:28 PM
I especially paid for the 15in alloys on the EX. Virtually every review of the Jazz I read or saw said the 15in coped better on the poor state of UK roads.
It seems that the UK are obsessed with larger wheels and low profile tyres despite the state of our roads. It is a mystery to me why generally when you spec a car you are often given an option for larger wheels but rarely, if ever, an option for smaller wheels. Go figure!
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Nicksey on March 19, 2023, 08:05:51 AM
I especially paid for the 15in alloys on the EX. Virtually every review of the Jazz I read or saw said the 15in coped better on the poor state of UK roads.

They nearly all said that the Jazz suffered body roll, a screaming engine/gearbox configuration and wasn't nearly as good a drive as a Fiesta.

If you can sense a difference in 1" diameter of a wheel, then fair play. You're a very sensitive person  :D
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: 5thcivic on March 19, 2023, 01:14:20 PM
I must have had many reviews bookmarked and can't remember one about Mk4 body roll or screaming engine, althought quite a few CRV reviews complained about noise when flooring the throttle. Low profile tyres are a nonsense on British roads where most trips are commuting and shopping.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Kremmen on March 19, 2023, 01:27:44 PM
There was a post ages ago with a video where a Mk4 was being pushed through a slalom course and it fared very well with little body roll.

On the noise side, I've floored mine a couple of times and I've not found the noise intrusive at all. Certainly not as bad as a normal CVT I've driven.

Some reviews are bad plagiarism from other reviews about different year models.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Nicksey on March 19, 2023, 02:14:18 PM
I must have had many reviews bookmarked and can't remember one about Mk4 body roll or screaming engine, althought quite a few CRV reviews complained about noise when flooring the throttle. Low profile tyres are a nonsense on British roads where most trips are commuting and shopping.

There were a few that made a point of the engine noise, and body roll. Like Kremen mentions above though, these are copy/paste lazy journalism reviews and the car was probably not even driven. I think the drive is excellent, better than my previous Capturs by far. I don't think the engine noise is a problem either, the transition between power modes is seamless and motorway driving is very quiet.

When you mention low profile, are you referring to the 16" that are fitted to the Crosstar and EX Style or as an available option?
Mine has the 16" and I would say they are definitely not low profile, having the Yokahama Blue Earth rubber shoes.
Again, I defy anyone to notice a difference in 1" between to the two Jazz option wheels.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Kremmen on March 19, 2023, 02:29:48 PM
The actual difference each side of the wheel will only be 1/2 inch ?
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: IanG on March 19, 2023, 04:30:51 PM
I especially paid for the 15in alloys on the EX. Virtually every review of the Jazz I read or saw said the 15in coped better on the poor state of UK roads.
Had a Jazz SE as a loan car whilst my EX was being serviced and noticed the improved ride quality
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Jazzik on March 19, 2023, 06:00:41 PM
We drive our EX (16", Vredestein Qatrac 185/55R16 all season tyres). Tire pressure: 2.7 bar (39 PSI) front, 2.6 bar (37.7 PSI) rear.
Our Jazz does not act as a kidney stone crusher ;) and is quite comfortable. Only on cobblestones (yes, we have those here in our medieval city center) it becomes less pleasant and a bit too noisy...
All in all, no complaints on Polish, German or Dutch roads.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Bazzzer on March 19, 2023, 06:16:54 PM
The actual difference each side of the wheel will only be 1/2 inch ?

To keep the same tyre outer diameter, that would require a 1/2 in difference in tyre sidewall, perhaps the difference between 2in and 2.5in, which is quite significant.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Kremmen on March 20, 2023, 04:21:25 AM
I'm sure my tyre wall is considerably more than 2" so the % difference would be conderably lower.

I have seen images of other cars where they have switched to 18" or 19" where the tyre wall does look like 2" and wondered why. The ride must be rock hard, what's the point ?
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Lord Voltermore on March 20, 2023, 09:33:17 AM
1/2 " difference in side wall height is an  approximation.  Higher tyre walls make up the 1" difference in diameter between  15" and 16" wheels , ie  1/2" more  height between the wheel and the road, and 1/2"  more at the top of the wheel where it makes no difference to handling etc.

To be more accurate  the profile of the tyre as shown in  tyre size  , eg 185/60/R15,  is a percentage of the tread width.   . Thus 60% of 185 mm is 111m  side wall    while its 16" equivalent  185/55/R16   is 55% of the same 185mm tread width  ie only   101.75 mm   .  10mm less (approx) ,  which is 0.4 " , not quite half an inch.   Not only that but measurement will be of a curved rubber side wall, not just the extra height between wheel rim and road surface.   

Things get more complicated if tread width changes.  For instance  a 195/60/R15 tyre side wall is 60% of 195  =  117 mm not 111mm

 
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Nicksey on March 20, 2023, 11:30:09 AM
1/2 " difference in side wall height is an  approximation.  Higher tyre walls make up the 1" difference in diameter between  15" and 16" wheels , ie  1/2" more  height between the wheel and the road, and 1/2"  more at the top of the wheel where it makes no difference to handling etc.

To be more accurate  the profile of the tyre as shown in  tyre size  , eg 185/60/R15,  is a percentage of the tread width.   . Thus 60% of 185 mm is 111m  side wall    while its 16" equivalent  185/55/R16   is 55% of the same 185mm tread width  ie only   101.75 mm   .  10mm less (approx) ,  which is 0.4 " , not quite half an inch.   Not only that but measurement will be of a curved rubber side wall, not just the extra height between wheel rim and road surface.   

Things get more complicated if tread width changes.  For instance  a 195/60/R15 tyre side wall is 60% of 195  =  117 mm not 111mm

Thats as maybe, but were the Jazz is concerned and the difference between the Honda wheel options available... does it really make that much difference in driveability regarding bumps in the road?  ;)
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Lord Voltermore on March 20, 2023, 12:22:29 PM

Thats as maybe, but were the Jazz is concerned and the difference between the Honda wheel options available... does it really make that much difference in driveability regarding bumps in the road?  ;)
I dont think so. Having a different brand of tyre can make just  as much difference IMO
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: 5thcivic on March 20, 2023, 06:14:17 PM
I test drove both before paying for the diamond cut alloys and definitely felt the smaller wheels were better on our poor surfaces. Did the same with the E and got the 16in option instead of the standard 17in.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Kremmen on March 21, 2023, 04:47:32 AM
If the choice of wheels was a no cost option or minimal cost I would have looked closer but I don't see the logic of paying full price for another set of wheels meaning you are paying for 8 wheels.
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: 5thcivic on March 22, 2023, 12:38:23 PM
Who paid for 8 wheels?
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Kremmen on March 22, 2023, 12:55:06 PM
If you use the configurator and specify different wheels, the prices I've seen look to me like full price ?

When the car arrives all you get is the wheels you've paid extra for, in addition to the car base price that includes 4 wheels.

So using that logic you've paid for 4 standard fit wheels and your 4 chosen wheels ?
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: 5thcivic on March 22, 2023, 01:25:11 PM
If you're stupid enough not to negotiate maybe. Otherwise you pay around £500 for diamond cut wheels which look a lot better than the standard with a more comfortable ride as part of a total deal with the other extras ;)
Title: Re: 15" or 16"?
Post by: Kremmen on March 22, 2023, 01:27:44 PM
I'm quite happy with the plastic covers. My Xantias had similar and they're easier to clean IMO.