Author Topic: MOT failure  (Read 3198 times)

u587162

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MOT failure
« on: November 06, 2020, 10:30:30 PM »
My MOT has failed on my Honda Jazz 56 plate CRV.

Service break efficiency below requirement [1.2.2 (a) (i)]
Parking break efficiency below requirement [1.4.2 (a) (i)]
Headlamp aim projected beam image is obviously incorrect Nearside [4.1.2 (c)]
Headlamp aim projected beam image is obviously incorrect Offside [4.1.2 (c)]


I think the last 2 could be corrected by a polish of the headlight lens as a different MOT test centre kindly rubbed it a little 2 years ago rather than failing it.  I have a polisher machine which I bought a few weeks ago for another purpose, would this be good to use, if so, what with any special cleaner?

How much is the first two items likely to cost me to get sorted on this car?  I'm based in NW London.  product cost and labour that is?

Thanks.

sparky Paul

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2020, 11:03:12 AM »
You can use a buffer on the headlamps, but I prefer to do them by hand. There's a few threads on here with ideas and the products to use.

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=9706.0

As the parking brake gets a mention, I suspect your problem is with the rear brakes. Below requirement, but no imbalance mentioned probably means that the rear calipers are seizing, this will most likely be rectified by a strip down and a good clean up, and the slider pins lubricating. Probably a new set of brake pads required too. There may be other problems found when the brakes are stripped down, but as discs are not mention on the MOT, hopefully the problems will be sorted by a good fettle of the calipers.

Should be no more than a couple of hours labour and a set of pads (£20 from a motor factor). Labour rates vary, but in NW London, I'm guessing they will be more than the £40 per hour charged by a good independent up here.

Always worth asking the MOT garage for a quote, they will have a good idea of the work required - it can a bit of a guessing game trying to work out what's wrong with the limited information given on the MOT failure.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2020, 11:06:40 AM by sparky Paul »

u587162

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2020, 11:58:19 AM »
You certainly know what you're talking about Paul.

Yes, without me saying so, the MOT guy said it would cost me about £20 to take off the wheel and strip down the rear near side break.  He said it could be the calipers as the near side rear break pad is worn down to the minimum whilst the right offside rear still looks relatively new.  He also said that the wheel (and I might not be explaining it properly here) break was slightly engaged when on the rollers during the MOT indicating that rear break is being applied whilst driving.  He said he would get me a quote.

Interestingly my mechanic said to me exactly a year ago that the callipers on the Jazz are notorious for seizing due to brakes binding and that there was some orange dots on mine.

Will have to get this checked this week.  Out of curiosity, could this also be linked to or affect the same wheel speed sensor because my ABS kicks in far too easily when I break or go over a road him (I've talked about that on here before).

Thanks again.

Jocko

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2020, 12:07:44 PM »
Out of curiosity, could this also be linked to or affect the same wheel speed sensor because my ABS kicks in far too easily when I break or go over a road him (I've talked about that on here before).
The wheel speed sensors look at the difference in speed between wheels on the same axle so if one rear brake is working and one is not that could be seen as an imbalance and trigger the ABS.

sparky Paul

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2020, 12:33:06 PM »
Yes, without me saying so, the MOT guy said it would cost me about £20 to take off the wheel and strip down the rear near side break.  He said it could be the calipers as the near side rear break pad is worn down to the minimum whilst the right offside rear still looks relatively new.  He also said that the wheel (and I might not be explaining it properly here) break was slightly engaged when on the rollers during the MOT indicating that rear break is being applied whilst driving.  He said he would get me a quote.

Sounds like you definitely have the nearside rear brake binding due to seizing, the other side may or may not need work too. £20 for each side, plus the cost of fitting a set of pads sounds very fair indeed, I would let him get on with it.

These Jazz calipers are indeed prone to seizing, particularly the rear ones. You have to make sure they are absolutely free of rust scale before reassembling, or the new pads stick in the carrier.

Out of curiosity, could this also be linked to or affect the same wheel speed sensor because my ABS kicks in far too easily when I break or go over a road him (I've talked about that on here before).

As Jocko says, a binding brake can definitely trigger the ABS. It can sense the imbalance in wheel speeds when traction is lost on the wheel with the binding brake, especially when going over road humps etc..

Westy36

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2020, 12:35:34 PM »
£20 a side? I would let him carry on provided you think he is competent!  :)

u587162

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2020, 01:14:34 AM »
So a local garage agreed to replace both callipers as there was an issue with the right side pads/discs/callipers not coming off or something, break disc and pads for £350 cash all in.  I saw the parts arrive from Euro Parts.

Kwik Fit and F1 Autos were quoting me anywhere between £500 and £800, with the average about £530 for the same thing.

I have one problem however, the handbrake is now very loose and and the car still rolls when the hard break is up and the automatic gear in neutral.   I'll have to take it back.  We have accidently driven the car (long before it was repaired) with the hand break up a few miles, garage owner thinks it might have damaged the cable (I informed him of the loose handbrake before I drove off he said he would need to open the centre console around the automatic gear stick.

Any suggestion what is making the car roll when the handbrake is applied?

springswood

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2020, 08:10:42 AM »
I had the rear calipers and pads replaced recently. My independent garage, who are excellent, explained the handbrake would need to be adjusted again after the pads had bedded in. Come back after a few hundred miles, no extra charge. Sure enough it was rubbish at first. Now it's been adjusted it's very good.
"Indecision is a terrible thing"
Or is it? What do you think?

sparky Paul

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2020, 08:40:24 AM »
Well, that soon escalated from £20 a side!

I suppose £350 for discs, pads and new calipers isn't too bad, the calipers are not the cheapest from ECP.

The handbrake is not fantastic on the Jazz at the best of times, and as springwood says, the new friction and discs will need to bed in. The handbrake obviously needs adjusting up, I would expect that in with the job, so press for it FOC.

Westy36

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2020, 10:42:28 AM »
Honda "Fixed Price Essential Repairs" quote £317 for discs and pads alone. So if you use that price as a baseline, an extra £33 for new calipers is a bargain!

sparky Paul

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2020, 10:57:14 AM »
Honda "Fixed Price Essential Repairs" quote £317 for discs and pads alone. So if you use that price as a baseline, an extra £33 for new calipers is a bargain!

Ah, but they won't be using 'super duper genuine Honda' parts.

Which is a good job really, as the list price for a pair of genuine rear calipers is... are you sitting down...  over £900 including VAT
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 11:04:19 AM by sparky Paul »

u587162

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2020, 02:03:47 PM »
lol £900 would be just a little lass value than the car.

The independent garage spoke with me this morning and has asked me to bring the car back tomorrow am.  He also said he will try adjusting the hand break without charge but he said that the cable might need replacing because it might have weakened after the few times we've driven around with the handbrake up.

He says that it might have worked before the repair work was done because one of the callipers were seized against the brake therefore not making the car roll when parked. 

Does all this make sense what he's claiming?

sparky Paul

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2020, 04:40:37 PM »
He says that it might have worked before the repair work was done because one of the callipers were seized against the brake therefore not making the car roll when parked. 

Does all this make sense what he's claiming?

It's not beyond the realms of possibility. The handbrake lever will feel 'spongy' with new discs and pads, but should improve once the pads have bedded in. If you're having to pull the lever right up, you're not going to get the full action on the calipers anyway, not until the cable has been adjusted.

What usually stretches the cable when the calipers seize is having to yank the handbrake on all the time, to get it to hold. Hopefully, he will be able to take up the slack in the adjuster.

u587162

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2020, 11:12:19 PM »
My MOT failed the retest.  It gave a parking break reading on the rollers of the MOT centre as 115 on left rear wheel and 77 on right rear wheel.  Took it back to my mechanic who suggested changing both hand brake cables for new ones and a old carrier (what does that do?) but with a second hand one from a scrap yard unless I wanted to spend silly money.  In total £108 inc labour.  He tested the rear wheels again on his roller this time and it gave a reading of about 90 on the right first time and after a few more times and the reading went up to about 115.  Not

I drove away from the mechanic thinking that I could smell a burning smell but I may need to drive it around a bit more.  It also feels when I've released the accelerator the car is decelerating more quickly than I'm used to.  When parked on my sloping drive and in neutral with then with hand brake up, the car is does roll a little.  It doesn't offer too much resistance (but better after the 2nd MOT failure) when I try to drive off with the handbrake up.

What could be going on here as Ive now spent £460 on an old car with 110k miles for a 56 plate.

Thanks.

sparky Paul

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Re: MOT failure
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2020, 12:07:00 AM »
I presume he's had it on the rollers and is happy that it's braking evenly and no binding with the handbrake off? If so, it should be good for a retest - assuming your mechanic knows what he's doing.

The caliper carrier holds the pads, and contains the caliper slider pins that allow the single piston caliper to move laterally. Not sure why he would change it, unless he thought there was a problem with the slider pins... which, you would have thought, would show up on the service brake test too.

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