Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: davejazz on April 20, 2023, 08:06:01 AM

Title: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: davejazz on April 20, 2023, 08:06:01 AM: It was in the Daily Mail the other day, (so it must be true), that the Austin Allegro, was the most unreliable, and perhaps ugly car, of the last 60 years or so.

At the other end of the scale, I’m not pretending that you bought your Jazz on looks alone; but perhaps on brand loyalty, or reliability.

So, have we had any breakdowns out there, that caused you to cease rolling along?

Perhaps we could exclude tyres and batteries, (or not, if it’s worthy)!

Safe driving.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: TnTkr on April 20, 2023, 08:28:16 AM: Oh, was Allegro really worse than Leyland Princess? Sorry, off-topic. :)
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Lord Voltermore on April 20, 2023, 09:20:05 AM: And I've been reading articles that say the Allegro was better than its given credit for. Probably written by journalists too young to have ever owned one. As in so many things you can get a completely different view point depending on which publication/propaganda you read. And too many of us only read then ones that consistently say what we want to hear.

With no offence to anyone who worked in the British motor industry it went through a period where it was dominated by influences that were not primarily interested in its long term success. . Car design became outdated and they were assembled very badly , when they could be bothered to make any at all.
At least thats what it says in the publications I usually read.

I have had 'enough is enough' moments with a particular car, but not a particular make. Usually just general dissatisfaction. I have been very lucky regarding breakdowns or major repairs .Or rust. Maybe because I was more hands with maintenance than some owners. Ive just tended to drift towards cars from countries where they are better made.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Karoq on April 20, 2023, 09:47:56 AM: The 'All-Agro' was a current model when I worked for Shell dealing with the retail motor trade. including a few BMC dealers.
I don't think the car was any more unreliable than any other BMC car of the time.
The only joke was that in the hand book it warned you not to jack up the car with the supplied jack with any doors open. They didn't say why, but the reason was because the monocoque was so flimsy, that there was a risk of twisting it to the degree that the doors would not shut.
good job the NCAP safety rating scheme did not exist then!
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: nowster on April 20, 2023, 10:17:12 AM: The only failures that have halted the Mk2 Jazzes we had were radiator leaks. Herself's went when the car was about 8 years old and mine when it was 12 (a couple of months after I'd sold it).

I grew up with my father continuously having to fix the J suffix reg Triumph 1300TC we had.

Then he switched to a Datsun Cherry and stuck with Japanese cars ever since.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: madasafish on April 20, 2023, 10:44:50 AM: Had two Allegros as company cars.
First. Collected Friday new: drove slowly to Scotland. 10 miles outside Montrose, oil warning light started flashing on bends. Stopped.. oil everywhere. Oil drain plug at last thread - not tightened. Tightened by hand (!HOT).. and drove slowly to nearest garage, 3 liters of oil to fill it.

Steering wheel (quartic) peeled, washer motor failed, hydrospastic suspension failed , paint on roof bubbled. All in Year 1.

After two years another..(no choice). 100% reliable.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: davejazz on April 20, 2023, 10:45:10 AM: Quote from: nowster on April 20, 2023, 10:17:12 AM
The only failures that have halted the Mk2 Jazzes we had were radiator leaks. Herself's went when the car was about 8 years old and mine when it was 12 (a couple of months after I'd sold it).

Ah, those indispensable tins of Radweld. Happy days!
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: nowster on April 20, 2023, 12:27:50 PM: Quote from: davejazz on April 20, 2023, 10:45:10 AM
Quote from: nowster on April 20, 2023, 10:17:12 AM
The only failures that have halted the Mk2 Jazzes we had were radiator leaks. Herself's went when the car was about 8 years old and mine when it was 12 (a couple of months after I'd sold it).
Ah, those indispensable tins of Radweld. Happy days!

The smell of Plastic Padding, too.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: 5thcivic on April 20, 2023, 12:31:26 PM: The hydragas suspension on Allegros (and other BLs) was famously unreliable, and became a running joke at the time. A friend at work had an Allegro and was constantly having to fix things to a lot of ribbing from others.

I had my 5th generation Civic for around 8 years until someone came out of a T junction and took the rear end off and it was written off. I don't remember spending any time or money on repairs in all that time. Then had four 8th and 9th gen Civics in a row till their first MOTs and similar. The only problem I ever had was the first 8th gen had a bug in the fusebox microprocessor where it occasionally would not shut down and the battery went flat overnight, it was changed under a recall when Honda found out, no problems after. Jazz and E have been brillaint so far.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: 5thcivic on April 20, 2023, 12:50:26 PM: Quote from: nowster on April 20, 2023, 10:17:12 AM
Then he switched to a Datsun Cherry and stuck with Japanese cars ever since.

Yes, I remember the jokes about Japanese cars at the time, the styling, thin metal and abundance of chrome etc etc. Then as time went on the jokes weren't so funny anymore as we seemed not able to build any reliable cars anymore and the foreign cars became obviously better. I worked on some of the first digital chip electronic fuel injection controllers and was seconded to Rover and Jaguar sometimes on quailty issues, and the mangement solution to almost every problem was to stick another box under the bonnet, the opposite to a "total systems" design approach. The more complex. the more unreliable. Some car unions were led by unashamed communists, and the BL management probably the most ignorant and unqualified in the world as far as I could see. When I went to Bosch in Germany the managers were all professional engineers and professors. When fellow workers looked in the bonnet of that 8th gen Civic they were amazed at how tidy and elegant the design and production engineering was.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Marco1979 on April 20, 2023, 01:28:28 PM: I only broke down once with a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid. It was 1 week old, had not even 500 miles on the clock and the complete dash went dark, all gauges on 0. I could drive on, but only slowly (also you had no idea of how fast you were actually going, but it felt very slow). Of course I was on a holiday in France when it happened; they had never seen a hybrid Honda before and had to call an expert to come over. It turned out there was an error in the instrument cluster. The car got a new instrument cluster and the ODO showed 000000 when I picked it up a few days later :D.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Kremmen on April 20, 2023, 02:29:10 PM: Wasn't the All aggro more aerodynamic going backwards ?

That and the Morris Marina weren't the best of British.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: TnTkr on April 20, 2023, 03:07:09 PM: Here Leyland Princess had the worst reputation regarding the quality of design and manufacturing. But yes, Morris Marina was close to that as well.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: olduser1 on April 20, 2023, 07:08:12 PM: 1750 Allegro in the wet what a test drive, I went back to my SAAB 96 thankfully.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Jocko on April 20, 2023, 07:33:02 PM: We had a 1968 Austin 1800 for many years and it was a reliable, comfortable car. It had Hydrolastic suspension, the forerunner, and way more reliable, than Hydrogas suspension. it was the family car, and then when my dad passed, my mum gave it to me. Easy car to work on and to get spares.
Going back to the original thread, my Jazz never let me down in the six years and 62,500 miles I owned it except for a duff battery a few weeks after buying it. The nearest I came to a breakdown was the rear silencer parting from the middlebox and bouncing along the road. I had to stop on the hard shoulder of the M90 and pull it out of the mounting rubbers.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: coravel on April 20, 2023, 10:18:56 PM: I had my Mk2 Jazz for 10 years and the only time it let me down was when I left it for 7 weeks to go on holiday and the battery went flat. But I also had a few instances where the tyre valves failed and had to have replacements fitted.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Lord Voltermore on April 21, 2023, 09:07:48 AM: A nostalgic thread about how the 'the good old days' were often not so good in reality is never going to be 'a very short thread' ;D
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Jazzik on April 21, 2023, 10:09:51 AM: (https://media.tenor.com/YFBL1PoFQBIAAAAC/the-aesthetic.gif)

:P
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Lord Voltermore on April 21, 2023, 12:17:55 PM: Nah. Oh look a typewriter. I remember those. You could buy twin coloured ribbon, and sometimes you had to clean fluff from the type letters.And do you remember carbon paper .... Sorry Jazzik the possibilities are endless. ;D
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: 5thcivic on April 21, 2023, 01:07:58 PM: One of my bosses had a Leyland Princess, there was so much room inside it was enormous, looked like an airport lounge. Mind you he was 6ft 6in so good for him.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Jocko on April 21, 2023, 01:19:35 PM: Found a photo of my old 1800, just after I had brush-painted it. PBB839F. It must have been taken 1977-78.

(https://i.imgur.com/65ICN96.jpg)
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Kremmen on April 21, 2023, 01:20:16 PM: The Princess predecessor the Austin 1800 was also huge inside with loads of rear legroom. Minicabs loved them.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: nowster on April 21, 2023, 01:41:01 PM: Quote from: Lord Voltermore on April 21, 2023, 12:17:55 PM
Nah. Oh look a typewriter. I remember those. You could buy twin coloured ribbon, and sometimes you had to clean fluff from the type letters.And do you remember carbon paper .... Sorry Jazzik the possibilities are endless. ;D

And those waxed stencil sheets you used with a spirit duplicator?
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: davejazz on April 21, 2023, 01:49:57 PM: As the original poster, I was hoping to read of any “breakdowns “ that had occurred with our MK 4s.

Enjoyed the trips down memory lane though!
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Jazzik on April 21, 2023, 02:18:29 PM: Quote from: davejazz on April 21, 2023, 01:49:57 PM
Enjoyed the trips down memory lane though!

(https://cdn.webshopapp.com/shops/291584/files/406272087/300x250x2/ri-traffic-doodlopende-straat-verkeersbord-l08-60c.jpg)

:-*
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: peteo48 on April 21, 2023, 02:48:23 PM: I had a couple of Morris Marinas. They never let me down in terms of failing to start, they always got me to my destination but minor irritations were plentiful - leaking windscreen, heater controls, shock absorbers.

I gather many of the parts were indeed from the parts bin including the front suspension from the Morris Minor.

One thing I've reflected on over the years is how do you define reliability? For me it's does the car start and does it keep going so I would say the Morris Marina was a reliable car but a pretty irritating ownership experience if that makes sense.

Not had any issues with any of the five Hondas I've owned.

Amendment - I did have a water leak on my Mk2 Jazz - a quick fix though.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: John Ratsey on April 21, 2023, 05:48:27 PM: I bought an Allegro Estate in December 1981 for £4k (I think it was the final clear-out sale). I sold it to a brother in 1984 and he / his wife used it for some years before selling it to a friend so cumulatively it clocked up quite a few years and miles without, as far as I'm aware, seriously disgracing itself. Something I noticed was that it didn't get covered in rust as quickly as many of the vehicles of that era but maybe the red paint disguised it. Its main deficiency was having only two doors (in addition to that on the back).
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Lord Voltermore on April 22, 2023, 09:54:58 AM: Sorry, I misunderstood the initial post and may have taken us down the nostalgia path. It didnt occur to me it could be about breakdowns or other quality control issues in a mk4 Jazz. I've not had any.

All I have had is maybe not understanding or not using some of the electronic gismos correctly. My bad, not the cars. :-[
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: shufty on April 22, 2023, 10:51:34 AM: ...Nearside rear window intermittently doesn't work on the driver's door control. This then tells the app that not all of the windows are closed and stops the key fob from opening or closing the windows.
Sometimes the control in the door itself works and sometimes not. Did have a blown fuse on that window upon delivery so it seems not 100% fixed. Switching car off and on again usually sorts it.

Nearside door mirror doesn't always auto unfold upon unlocking the car. That's either by fob, door handle or boot method.
It's not related to temperature and can happen at any time, usually when first unlocking the car so may be amount of time closed?
Always works from driver's door switch though. Always closes too upon locking.

Did have LKAS not function once. All other safety features were 'green' and appeared to be working. Switching off car and restarting seemed to sort it.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: nowster on April 22, 2023, 10:59:53 AM: My Mk4's wipers are starting to judder. I've cleaned them and wiped them over with silicone oil, but I suspect I may need to replace them soon. ;)
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: swhull on April 22, 2023, 02:47:41 PM: Drive shaft snapped when i attempted to join a roundabout, mk2 jazz. Nothing else other than that painful one.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: madasafish on April 22, 2023, 03:28:48 PM: Quote from: TnTkr on April 20, 2023, 03:07:09 PM
Here Leyland Princess had the worst reputation regarding the quality of design and manufacturing. But yes, Morris Marina was close to that as well.

I remember Longridge full of automatic Princesses with faulty drive shafts (designed out of alignment with the gearbox! They all had to be reworked.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Jocko on April 22, 2023, 04:26:24 PM: I almost bought an immaculate bronze 1974 Wolseley 6 automatic at a car auction. It went for peanuts. I was right into car repairs at that time but I often wonder what nightmares it brought to the new owner. The one in the picture was MOTd up until 2018 but is currently SORNd.

(https://www.wolseleyownersclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Wolseley-six-5.jpg)
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Lord Voltermore on April 22, 2023, 04:39:09 PM: Quote from: swhull on April 22, 2023, 02:47:41 PM
Drive shaft snapped when i attempted to join a roundabout, mk2 jazz. Nothing else other than that painful one.
IIRC driveshafts (or one of them) has an intentional weak point so that under excessive stress it fails first, thus protecting less easily replaced internal gears etc. I have heard of cars (not Jazz) breaking drive shafts when driven off a kerb. One wheel goes airborne for a short time and spins rapidly building up momentum and torque, which is suddenly halted when the wheel lands.
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Westy36 on May 05, 2023, 11:07:14 AM: I began my driving career in a 1979 Morris Marina back in '89. Absolute pile of junk. Starting the thing was a complete lottery. It was swiftly followed by a Mk1 Ford Fiesta 1.1, that covered 25k miles and never missed a beat. Killed by rust in the end.

That said, I did own a Triumph Dolomite 1850 HL for a year in '91. A really reliable car. Had an overdrive gearbox that was fantastic. Fond memories. The only thing that didn't work was the choke lever. The twist and lock function was shot, but easily fixed by a clothes peg to hold it out! There was joy in a cheap fix.

These days, even in the very depths of winter and -10, I can rely on my Jazz to start first time every time. A world away from my Marina!
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Jocko on May 05, 2023, 01:52:57 PM: My experience of a Morris Marina was delightful. It was a brand new hire car I had to drive back from the airport after dropping off a colleague returning to the States. Mind you, at the time my daily driver was a FIAT 126 so I didn't have a lot to improve on!
Title: Re: This may be a very short thread!
Post by: Kremmen on May 05, 2023, 02:02:14 PM: I seem to recall BL implemented raised conveyor belts for the Marina construction so stuff around sill level was easier to work on.

Prior to that all cars sat on the factory floor so low down stuff the mechanics had to bend.