Author Topic: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?  (Read 4007 times)

peteo48

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Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« on: November 25, 2017, 10:29:41 PM »
Genuinely struggling with this one. When my Jazz went in for service, I was given a new Civic with the 3 cylinder turbo 1.0 charged engine as a loan car. I was hugely impressed. Loads of torque, smooth power delivery and low CO2 and high MPG.

Clearly a much better engine than the 1.3 in the current Jazz. More powerful, more ecologically sound and better mpg.

So why isn't this engine rolled out across the range?

I don't get it.

culzean

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2017, 10:10:25 AM »
Genuinely struggling with this one. When my Jazz went in for service, I was given a new Civic with the 3 cylinder turbo 1.0 charged engine as a loan car. I was hugely impressed. Loads of torque, smooth power delivery and low CO2 and high MPG.

Clearly a much better engine than the 1.3 in the current Jazz. More powerful, more ecologically sound and better mpg.

So why isn't this engine rolled out across the range?

I don't get it.

Small turbo engines suffer from high emissions, just like turbo diesels but without the large particulates.

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/eco-engines-are-among-the-most-polluting-according-to-new-emissions-index/

In the same way as diesels were touted as saviour of the planet, small turbos were the motor industry and government legislators clutching at straws that small turbos would be the saviour of the planet - another dead end, where do we go now - oh I know electric cars..................
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 10:41:33 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2017, 10:58:26 AM »
It is basically the power out requires a given amount of fuel burnt, irrespective of how you create that power. And lean burn engines (turbos included) create more NOx for the amount of fuel burnt than non lean burn.

peteo48

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2017, 01:08:35 PM »
In the Civic, though, it seems to have low CO2 emissions.

You might be right about the NOX though.

JazzandJag

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2018, 10:26:24 AM »
For what its worth, I was speaking to the Dealer Principal when I collected my car on Thursday and he said that the only power option in the next generation Jazz (due 2021) will be hybrid. The next move after that would be to a fully electric vehicle.  Hope the infrastructure is all in place for when that happens!

ColinS

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2018, 11:12:11 AM »
I have no idea of hybrids whatsoever but wondered how easy it would be for Honda to fit one to the current model Jazz?  From comments I have seen on this forum, people seem to like them.

guest1372

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2018, 11:31:57 AM »
They do in other territories, the current Hybrid has an i-DCD 7 speed dual clutch gearbox with the electric motor connected directly to the odd gears shaft. Seems to be sold in the far East.

https://paultan.org/2017/12/28/driven-honda-jazz-sport-hybrid-i-dcd/
--
TG

John Ratsey

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 07:02:36 PM »
Honest John's RealMPG data for the 2017 Civic https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/realmpg/honda/civic-2017 shows the 1.0 L engine having significantly worse fuel consumption than the 1.5 L engine. It's clearly capable of gulping fuel and evidently needs to be driven with a very light right foot. It's quite possible that Honda had been planning to offer this engine in the Jazz and then changed course after seeing the real life economy.
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Skyrider

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 08:34:16 PM »
The reason that all small petrol turbo engines will disapear from new cars is they can't meet the new emission tests to be introduced in 2018. Highly stressed, thirsty, dirty, and unreliable, I wouldn't touch one with your bargepole.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/new-uk-real-world-emissions-tests-start-today

Although this article targets diesels the tests also apply to petrol cars.

EDIT - Another link.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autoshow-paris-engines-exclusive-idUSKBN12E11K
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 10:17:21 AM by Deeps »

John Ratsey

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 11:28:30 AM »
However, development of the smaller engines might not be wasted. As the last line of the second link says "“downsizing will mean you take a smaller engine and add an electric motor to it”. I've often wondered whether it would be possible to develop Honda's IMA arrangement to enlarge the motor/generator (which also serves as the flywheel) and combine with the 3 cylinder engine. The motor power would need to be at least 30HP, not the 13HP in the Mk 2 Jazz hybrid (with a decent sized battery as well).
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guest7328

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2018, 06:57:09 AM »
Marketing.

I am sure from the factory the cost difference between a 1.3 litre and a 1.5 litre is next to nothing.

culzean

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 09:59:51 AM »
Marketing.

I am sure from the factory the cost difference between a 1.3 litre and a 1.5 litre is next to nothing.

Car makers have legal obligations to meet on engine sizes and Co2 emissions across their range,  that is why Aston martin did a deal with Toyota to buy their Aygo models and fit them with a bit of bling including the Aston Martin badge (to offset their gas guzzling models).  These regulations are tighter in Europe and Japan than other parts of the world,  in which anything smaller than a 3.8 litre V6 is looked upon as too small.   The truth is people want good MPG (like Jocko gets) but 200BHP,  and these figures are not compatible.  it used to be called 'having your cake and eating it too' -  the highest legal speed limit in UK is 70mph, which you can easily achieve in a 1 litre car. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

DaveBerks

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2018, 10:50:26 AM »
I can't believe the 1.5 has as good fuel economy as the 1.3 (I get average 53 MPG with cvt) and the 1.5's CO2 emissions are higher.  Hence it is badged as a sport model  because it isn't an eco car.  As such the 1.5 fails to compete with small hybrids like the Yaris which the 1.3 just about does on real MPG (although of course CO2 is higher in the Jazz than the Yaris). I understand small turbo charged engines don't deliver much above 40 MPG and that is the price you pay for the extra low down acceleration. The 1.3 is designed to conserve fuel hence the slower acceleration.

So you have a choice....better fuel economy or more power ! Not concerned about fuel economy and CO2 emissions ? ....then buy and enjoy the 1.5.

Skyrider

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Re: Why don't Honda scrap the 1.3 engine in the Jazz?
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2018, 01:43:11 PM »
So you have a choice....better fuel economy or more power ! Not concerned about fuel economy and CO2 emissions ? ....then buy and enjoy the 1.5.

My 1.5 is planned in!

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