Author Topic: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels  (Read 24925 times)


culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 05:59:08 PM »
Honda held out against the European love of Diesel engines for longer than any other manufacturer,  they have been proved correct.   Diesel engines are for trains and lorries.
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monkeydave

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2015, 04:51:58 PM »
and i heard that the honda diesel is an is an Isuzu block so not a real honda engine

RichardA

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2015, 05:02:54 PM »
The engine used in the Civic around 2002-05 is an Isuzu engine, the 1.6 and 2.2-litre engines I understand are entirely Honda's own design.

culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2015, 06:36:49 PM »
The engine used in the Civic around 2002-05 is an Isuzu engine, the 1.6 and 2.2-litre engines I understand are entirely Honda's own design.

When Honda started making Diesels they used a Isuzu bottom end and fitted Honda top end and clever bits,  no point in re-inventing the wheel as the Isuzu bits were well proven and bulletproof.
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Jazzdriver

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2015, 08:28:19 PM »
I often see diesels belching out black clouds-nasty carcinogens. Even newish cars.

culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2015, 09:55:24 PM »
Diesels in cars were supported and even I think subsidised through favorable company car tax rates by European governments, the Japs and Americans and rest of world were never keen on diesel cars and made them for European market ( I never saw a diesel car in Australia when we lived there) - Europeans pushed them because they were going to save the world because they were lower CO2 emissions than petrol cars,  what they failed to mention is that they are much higher in nasty smog causing NOx (nitrous oxide) and carcinogenic particulates.   A few years ago EU even supported a scheme to buy 'bio-diesel' from third world countries who then proceeded to cut down rainforest to grow palm oil plants etc to refine into oil when they should have been growing food.  EU is now having to do a 'U-turn' on diesels because the cat is well and truly out of the bag about diesel fumes causing smog in cities like Paris.  Diesel engines are also becoming horrendously complicated and expensive to repair.

The future for cars is petrol-electric  hybrids until they they come up with an electric car with at least 300 mile range and 10 minute recharge.
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culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2015, 04:35:14 PM »
More bad news for clean Diesels LOL- who would suspect German car makers of exaggerating their cars capabilities ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34324772
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culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2015, 09:40:25 AM »
another downside of diesel engines is their tendency to destroy their transmissions due to higher torque (delivered in pulses) at low revs (but diesels only do low revs anyway) - the answer was the notorious 'dual-mass' flywheel given a write up in this article - trouble is dual mass flywheels have a nasty habit of regularly falling apart (sometimes at low mileage) with very expensive results.  Basically a dual mass flywheel replaces a conventional solid flywheel with collection of springs and plates held together with a wing and a prayer, but without them diesel gearboxes and transmission would have to be a lot more heavily designed, noisy, rough and well 'heavy'.

diesel lovers will say that the fact that diesels rev lower means they last longer - not true as diesel engines have longer strokes and revs are limited by piston speed to about 4K,  a petrol with shorter stroke  can rev to 7K and not exceed piston speed limit.  Never buy a modern diesel over 3 years old as the repair bills will make your eyes water (turbos, dual mass flywheel,  DPF, injectors).  company car driver = diesel,  my own money=petrol

Diesels are rapidly becoming too complex and high maintenance and hard to justify lower fuel consumption vs higher maintenance costs unless you do mega yearly mileage and don't mind causing a bit of cancerous smog here and there. 

http://www.coxmotorparts.co.uk/genuine-honda-civic-22-diesel-clutch-kit-luk-flywheel-p-1394.html?zenid=efcb2c03556e8c916924372b324ced8e

honest john - why are dual mass flywheels so much trouble -----

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/dual-mass-flywheels/
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 11:38:50 AM by culzean »
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TonyS

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2015, 01:38:10 PM »
Totally agree with culzean regarding modern day diesels, very complex and an expensive bill waiting to happen.
I did briefly consider a diesel a couple of years ago but the (expensive) horror stories of dual mass flywheels, turbos and DPF problems persuaded me otherwise.

The diesel engine was originally a relatively simple piece of engineering which has become more and more complex over the years in order to improve performance and to satisfy ever more stringent emissions regulations.

Even some petrol engines are getting to be ever more complex such as VW/Audi group TFSI engines incorporating both a turbocharger and a supercharger which will no doubt result in big bills for owners in the future.

Thankfully Honda have avoided going down this route so whilst they might not match the TFSI engines in terms of outright performance they are fairly bullet proof as long as they get a regular oil and filter change just like their motorbikes.

culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2015, 12:09:52 PM »
Another damning article on dirty diesels and how politicians as well as manufacturers are guilty of 'fudging the figures'

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/30/emissions-scandal-how-the-drive-for-diesel-ran-out-of-gas

The link below shows that Europe took the wrong turning by going diesel, and Japanese were cleverer and more environmentally friendly (so what's new)

http://www.enveurope.com/content/25/1/15

excerpt from above report

The European-Japanese powertrain debate

The European diesel versus Japanese hybrid technology debate produced strange effects. In 2003, Toyota was excluded from talks between ACEA and the European Commission over Euro 5 emission laws due in 2010 [104]. The stance of Japanese carmakers was not appreciated with their European counterparts since they considered diesels to be a dead-end technology environmentally: ‘When equipped with all future after-treatment equipment, diesel cars will become as expensive as hybrid cars’, says Katsuhiko Hirose, hybrid project general manager for Toyota [103]. European Union emission legislation however remained more lenient and did not require or simply postponed the need for after-treatment equipment. Dated technology could therefore be artificially kept alive. We believe that this conduct contradicted the self-imposed ‘best available technology’ legislation laid down by the EU stating that ‘emission limit values, parameters or equivalent technical measures should be based on the best available techniques’ [105].


EU authorities adopted different NOx emission thresholds for diesel than for petrol cars. NOx represents the sum of NO plus NO2. Since Euro 3 and up to now (Euro 5), NOx emission thresholds for diesel cars have been about three times higher than for petrol cars. Noticeably, this legal threshold limit between petrol and diesel cars (factor of 3) is mistakenly used as a basis for emission comparison even in high-quality scientific reports
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 04:39:18 PM by culzean »
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RichardA

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guest5079

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2015, 03:28:51 PM »
Absolutely nothing to do with scientific  analysis of diesels but purely a personal observation.
I do not like diesels, anybody that lives or lived in an area of traffic concentration would know of the choking sensation of diesel fumes especially on cold mornings.
Back in the 1960's I drove a BMC LD Mothers Pride bread van, if the beast broke down, it meant quite a wait whilst the mechanics came out, One day, being only a couple of miles form the depot, the pipe from the lift pump to the injector pump cracked. As the engine was still running, I drove back to the depot and the pipe was fixed. In just a couple of miles the fumes were quite nasty. That evening, I was taken ill, very ill. Dr came to In laws where we were for the evening he was foxed. It seems despite his best diagnosis of it being a stroke, he was not happy. The long and short of it was that I was suffering from diesel poisoning. I will admit to being very scared as my brain was fine but nothing would work, I was completely paralysed.  I made the vow, never a diesel. It seems now that the lovefest with the diesel might be over.

guest5669

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2015, 11:06:11 PM »
Absolutely nothing to do with scientific  analysis of diesels but purely a personal observation.
I do not like diesels, anybody that lives or lived in an area of traffic concentration would know of the choking sensation of diesel fumes especially on cold mornings.
Back in the 1960's I drove a BMC LD Mothers Pride bread van, if the beast broke down, it meant quite a wait whilst the mechanics came out, One day, being only a couple of miles form the depot, the pipe from the lift pump to the injector pump cracked. As the engine was still running, I drove back to the depot and the pipe was fixed. In just a couple of miles the fumes were quite nasty. That evening, I was taken ill, very ill. Dr came to In laws where we were for the evening he was foxed. It seems despite his best diagnosis of it being a stroke, he was not happy. The long and short of it was that I was suffering from diesel poisoning. I will admit to being very scared as my brain was fine but nothing would work, I was completely paralysed.  I made the vow, never a diesel. It seems now that the lovefest with the diesel might be over.

Bus's are the worst culprits especially in London , I hate being stuck behind a bus, as it does choke the life out of me.

culzean

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Re: VW emissions scandel / French fall out of love with diesels
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2015, 10:23:05 AM »
With diesels well and truly 'outed' for high real world emissions and everyone touting plug in electric cars as the next thing to save the world where is all the extra electricity coming from - with government rapidly closing down coal fired power stations (Germans are building new coal fired stations by the way) we already have a shortfall of capacity in UK and if we have a cold day with hardly any wind (or too much wind which turbines can't cope with either) industry will have to shut down to relieve load on national grid.   Frightening thing is that the second largest wind farm in Europe off Sussex coast with over 140   turbines can only generate 8% of the power of one normal coal fired station.  We already have to import nuclear generated electricity from France to top-up our system.

The governments answer is to build gas powered electrical generating plants as being more sustainable,  don't know why as a lot of our gas has to come from Russia or in frozen tanks on ships all the way from far east (Malaysia) to Milford Haven in Wales.
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