Air con stopped working again

[guest7027]

Had my Jazz for around 4 months, bought it from Honda with a 12 month Honda warranty.

When I first picked the car up I noticed the air con was barely working so they regassed it free of charge and all was fine - working perfectly fine, ice cold.

However after 2 months the air con stopped working again same as when I first got the car. When I press the AC button I hear a noise as though it is going to work but no cold air ever makes it way through.

Took it back to Honda who said they couldn't find any fault with the system so they have regassed it again but this time put a dye in the system to see if they can find any small leaks but they said upon visual inspection no leaks could be found and they pressure checked the system too but nothing found.

After about 3 weeks the air con has stopped working yet again, Honda said they can't find anything so regassed again!

Another 1 month and the air con has stopped again!!!!!!!!!

Going call the dealer tomorrow but this is getting beyond a joke now, I thought these Honda's are meant to be reliable? So far it has been the most unreliable car I've owned haha

Any ideas at all what this could be? My logic was that it must be a leak of some sort if they are having to regas the system with refridgerant right? It doesn't just evaporate in that short of space of time so it must be going somewhere? Honda are insistent that it isn't leaking but can't explain where the refrigerant is going...

obviously once regassed it works perfectly again so this would lead me to believe that all components are working satisfactory again this pin points to a leak?

[guest6946]

Had my Jazz for around 4 months, bought it from Honda with a 12 month Honda warranty.

When I first picked the car up I noticed the air con was barely working so they regassed it free of charge and all was fine - working perfectly fine, ice cold.

However after 2 months the air con stopped working again same as when I first got the car. When I press the AC button I hear a noise as though it is going to work but no cold air ever makes it way through.

Took it back to Honda who said they couldn't find any fault with the system so they have regassed it again but this time put a dye in the system to see if they can find any small leaks but they said upon visual inspection no leaks could be found and they pressure checked the system too but nothing found.

After about 3 weeks the air con has stopped working yet again, Honda said they can't find anything so regassed again!

Another 1 month and the air con has stopped again!!!!!!!!!

Going call the dealer tomorrow but this is getting beyond a joke now, I thought these Honda's are meant to be reliable? So far it has been the most unreliable car I've owned haha

Any ideas at all what this could be? My logic was that it must be a leak of some sort if they are having to regas the system with refridgerant right? It doesn't just evaporate in that short of space of time so it must be going somewhere? Honda are insistent that it isn't leaking but can't explain where the refrigerant is going...

obviously once regassed it works perfectly again so this would lead me to believe that all components are working satisfactory again this pin points to a leak?

There probably a leak in the radiator it is a common fault especially for the Mark 1

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[guest7027]

Mine is a mark 2 - is this still an issue?

[Jocko]

I worked with Polycold systems, which are an extreme cryo refrigeration system that chills down to -203°C, and I can assure you (and Honda), that if the system is losing pressure (needing gas added) then it is definitely leaking. The Freon R12 or R14 gas does not break down. The only way the system can lose pressure is through a leak. It may be well hidden but it is leaking. A refrigeration engineer would have a probe that "sniffs" for leaks, but it is unlikely that a Honda dealer would have such a piece of kit.

[guest7027]

This was my assumption too and I tried to explain this to Honda with the closed central heating system analogy - if your boiler is losing pressure constantly after refilling it with cold water then that cold water has got to be going somewhere but they really seemed to struggle in grasping this concept? They said it is not leaking but they can't understand where the refrigerant is going... to why I replied if you can't confirm for certain were the refrigerant is magically disappearing to then you can't confirm that there is not a leak!

I just keep going round in circles with them and I get the impression they are playing dumb because they don't want to fork out any big money on repairs under the warranty.

Any ideas of what the dye in the refrigerant should look like? I'm going to try and have a good nosey around myself this weekend to see if I can pin point anything.

[Jocko]

We never used dye, so I have no idea what it looks like. Any contaminants in our systems limited the ultimate cryo effect received. We used the Polycolds to replace liquid nitrogen chillers for use in high vacuum systems.
If you scout round, and see something that looks different you may be on to something. Like tyre valves, the fill port can sometimes fail to seal correctly.

[Steve_M]

Any ideas of what the dye in the refrigerant should look like? I'm going to try and have a good nosey around myself this weekend to see if I can pin point anything.

The dye is most likely to be UV reactive, you would need a UV light to show it up.

Its normally a dayglow green colour and can sometime actually be seen with the naked eye and without a UV light.

Otherwise the refrigerant would also cause a oily stain also, so that can normally be seen.

Leak prone areas are the condenser (Front radiator) damaged due to stone chip damage.

Possible areas for leakage that the dealer may not be able to see is the evaporator (radiator/heat exchange unit inside the heater box)

I would agree that there must be a leak and if its stopping working in that short a period, then quite a leak at that.

[John Ratsey]

If it's not leaking then maybe something else in the aircon system is not working? Here's an example https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8496.0.

[sparky Paul]

I would think it's fairly obvious that there is a leak somewhere. If the dealer is unable to locate it with dye in the system, then the next obvious is an evaporator leak, as Steve_M said. The dye is usually bright green/yellow and luminesces in UV light. You often need UV to detect small leaks, sometimes even having to resort to squirting a bit of detergent like Teepol on anything suspect, valves, joints, etc.. It doesn't need much of a leak over a week or two to trip the low pressure switch and make the aircon inoperable.

If they are unable/unwilling to fix it, I think that after giving them a fair chance, I would now be pressing them to take it to an aircon specialist, who will have sniffing equipment.

[guest7027]

spoke to Honda today, it's going back in on Tuesday next week.

I explained to the service manager than when I press the air con button on I still hear a noise as thought it is going to work - you can hear the noise as thought it's kicking in but just never get any cold air through. He says that if the condenser is kicking in (the noise you can hear when pressing air con button on) then it's unlikely to be a leak as the system is designed to not turn the condenser on if the pressure is low to prevent damage to components. He says it is more likely to be a faulty relay?

After reading the workshop manual for the Jazz what he is saying seems to be correct... so what I am now confused about is why Honda felt the need to regas the air con system twice already if this isn't the fault? Conveniently the service manager who I was last dealing with on this issue has now left the business but when I last spoke to him a few weeks back he informed me that when my car last went in for air con problems that it needed regassing as it was empty... and in fairness to him the regassing does temporarily fix the issue!

These appear to be 2 different diagnosis' - one chap saying no leak and the other not admitting there is a leak but admitting that the refrigerant had vanished and needed to be regassed.

[JazzyB]

when you mean 'condenser' i think you mean the compressor. If the gas is low the compressor doesn't kick in to protect the system. In a normal working system you can hear an audible click as the compressor engages and the fans switch on and off at regular intervals.

Reading your issues I think there is a leak somewhere and would take it to somewhere like kwik-fit and the like and ask them to re-gas the system. If the system is leaking then they won't re-gas it. As I suspect yours is leaking then you will know where you stand and as your car is 7 years old I suspect its the condenser that's leaking as this part is right at the front of car exposed to everything that can hit it!

[olduser1]

Recommend you document all your A/C issues send to Honda UK then cc to local dealer, suggest they let you take the Jazz to A/C specialist who will be able to diagnose the fault at their exxpense . The dealer needs to listen to the customer .. Good Luck

[guest7027]

thanks for the replies so far.

I think he may well of said the compressor instead of condenser

I will see what the outcome of next weeks visit is and if they try and fob me off again I will be taking all details from there computer system as to exactly what's been done (or not as the case may well be) along with dates, names of managers and staff involved and all will be going to Honda UK!

[Jocko]

I made a complaint, by letter, to Gemma Corbett, Honda (UK)'s Customer Relations Manager. That was a fortnight ago. I haven't even had the courtesy of a computer generated reply.
If I can possibly avoid it, Honda will never make a penny out of me, if this is an example of their customer relations.

[culzean]

Cannot understand why Honda left the aircon heat exchanger so exposed to stones, they made no attempt to put any mesh in front of it at all, was worse on GD.  The other leak prone place is the pump shaft seals.  Have a look at the heat exchanger through bumper grill,  any large dents in the fins especially if they are in the area of one of the tubes is suspect.