Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 12381 times)

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2017, 01:00:59 PM »
My next door neighbour in Yorkshire has one - has never plugged it in, and in my London parking structure another i8 and an Audi R8 share three spaces as they are too wide for a standard bay (plus there are no sockets in the reserved spaces); be interesting to see what they fetch at end of lease - new they are 100k. 
True, but if I win the lottery none of that will make a blind bit of difference to me! I'd probably use all three bays, lengthwise!!!

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2017, 01:07:44 PM »
Some good points John. At some stage the decline in tax revenues will force change. I also agree that, as the ICE disappears or certainly gets banned from use in highly populated areas and EVs become the norm then the need for subsidies to attract people to buy them will become less.

In the meantime, I still think hybrids have a role to play in the air quality stakes.

The elephant in the room though, is the advent of fully autonomous vehicles. That might change the whole concept of owning a car if you can just summon one up. Not sure I could make the leap from owning a car but I think I'll be pushing up daisies by the time this takes off completely.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2017, 01:33:16 PM »
but I think I'll be pushing up daisies by the time this takes off completely.

Yes, it is not high on my worry list either. I started driving when petrol was 4/4d a gallon, and MOT's and the breathalyser were well in the future!

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2017, 02:56:42 PM »
The elephant in the room though, is the advent of fully autonomous vehicles. That might change the whole concept of owning a car if you can just summon one up. Not sure I could make the leap from owning a car but I think I'll be pushing up daisies by the time this takes off completely.

IMHO people who haven't left school yet will also be pushing up daisies before fully autonomous cars are ready for the road and can handle everything that both other vehicles and mother nature can throw at them = things that us mere humans take in our stride and even the dumbest driver can handle - the best they can do at the moment if they hit and unexpected situation is stop where they are.  As for car ownership,  our car is a great source of pride to most of us,  do you really want to share a vehicle with thousands of others ??

The legal stuff will need massive sorting out,  for instance do you need a driving licence to 'be in charge' of an AV,  if the car crashes whose fault is it, the maker of the car,  the software supplier, the other vehicle (if one involved).  I have seen videos of present day 'state of the art' AV's on trial even just on test tracks suddenly veer into barriers or cross to the other side of the road for no reason,  and the LIDAR they use does not have the resolution to pick up objects (even car sized ones) that are too far from the car,  drivers report vehicles not even attempting to brake when approaching stationary traffic queues.

There is a roadmap of 5 levels set out for autonomous vehicles #5 being fully autonomous with no one in charge of the vehicle,  level 5 is a distant dream according to most experts.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:18:34 PM by culzean »
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peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2017, 03:18:27 PM »
No I don't and that's why I am secretly relieved it's a longish way down the track. I sense upcoming generations have a different mind set though.

PS

Sorry - just to be clear - I agree I don't fancy sharing a car. Not even keen on anybody driving my car.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 03:20:01 PM by peteo48 »

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2017, 04:05:00 PM »
No I don't and that's why I am secretly relieved it's a longish way down the track. I sense upcoming generations have a different mind set though.

PS

Sorry - just to be clear - I agree I don't fancy sharing a car. Not even keen on anybody driving my car.

It is actually surprising that polls show that many young people don't like electric cars,  and are not keen on autonomous ones either.   Our roads would soon be clogged with driverless cars scooting around, maybe empty on their way to pick up an indian takeaway or to pick kids up from school.

I you missed this BBC Horizon program recently it is worth a watch on i-player  -horizon-2017-dawn-of-the-driverless-car
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 04:16:05 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2017, 05:46:44 PM »
I did see the Horizon programme - it was interesting.

I suppose one thing we have all probably learned over the years - predictions about the future have a habit of being proved wide of the mark - paperless office anyone?!

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 05:52:10 PM »
predictions about the future have a habit of being proved wide of the mark
Anyone who watched "Tomorrows World" can vouch for that.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 08:57:11 PM »
Indeed!

TV didn't kill radio - it didn't even kill cinema or theatre.

Culzean touches on an important point about pride of ownership and there is something else. A lot of us will take some pride and even enjoyment in the skills involved in driving - is automating these skills necessarily a good thing?

We often see the word "artisan" being used to describe anything from cheese to beer if it is made by traditional methods - there is still a desire to do stuff rather than let a machine do it all.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2017, 09:12:54 PM »
Just watched the Horizon programme. Really looking forward to bullying the autonomous cars. A bit like driving a banger and forcing your way in on a 17 reg shiny!

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2017, 09:35:01 PM »
Just watched the Horizon programme. Really looking forward to bullying the autonomous cars. A bit like driving a banger and forcing your way in on a 17 reg shiny!

Looking forward to another source of amusement on the roads as well.

I think roads will have to change before autonomous vehicles can even be considered,  maybe guide wires buried under roads and special transponders or similar built into traffic lights and speed limit signs as a minimum.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

TG

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2017, 12:49:08 AM »
I believe that all manufactures will have drivetrains similar to that of the new Audi A8 fairly soon with a small motor/generator in place of the traditional alternator.  There has been widespread consensus in the automotive supply chain to move to 48V systems as the number of drivetrain electric motors is rapidly increasing (suspension, engine control and even in turbochargers) this will save weight and reduce cable size, but for efficiency the power demands and surplus must be averaged out.  What Audi have done is introduce a continuously engaged belt driven alternator starter motor (BAS) with a small 48V 10Ah Li-ion battery, this extends the idle-stop concept to while the car is moving.  This motor can keep the car coasting for a minute or generate power while decelerating, it's also used to start the engine (except for initial cold starting when a conventional 12V Pb battery and pinion starter is used).  In the Audi it's smart as it also uses the navigation system and road/traffic sensors to predict when to coast/generate/or start the ICE.

This car meets level 3 autonomy when faced with a congested dual carriageway (Tesla Autopilot is level 2; if you only need to get in the back seat it's level 5 of 5).  The car's ability to understand it's environment of approaching cyclists along the kerb or weaving in front, white line motor bikes, cars approaching perpendicularly etc. is quite awesome (and a few bits of it are British).  The variety of ultrasonic, optical, infra red and laser sensors enable the car to build a very detailed picture of kerbs, white lines, vegetation, and lifeforms.

One other factor leading towards autonomy is the recent ratification of the V2x wireless protocol (vehicle to everything), this will enable cars to broadcast data up to 500m.  Listeners may be other cars, traffic control systems etc.  For example if a car performed hard braking, listeners behind can take appropriate action, it would also enable cars to convoy more effectively, plus the vehicle mode could respond to environmental inputs such as air quality zones.
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TG

madasafish

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John Ratsey

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2017, 07:54:03 AM »
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/98964/electric-car-growth-to-ramp-up-pressure-on-energy-providers
That problem can be addressed by having variable tariffs depending on time of day when the power is used which can be easily implemented once everyone has a smart meter.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2017, 08:35:05 AM »
I already have that for my storage heating and water heater.

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