Author Topic: Front anti roll bar  (Read 6323 times)

guest5814

  • Guest
Front anti roll bar
« on: June 23, 2017, 08:26:38 PM »
Fitted a 19mm rear anti roll bar, reduced under steer, the turn in is much better.
 Looking now to replace the front one, with a larger diameter.   Any one already done this.
  Honda did on the SI...

guest6946

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 12:49:46 AM »
Fitted a 19mm rear anti roll bar, reduced under steer, the turn in is much better.
 Looking now to replace the front one, with a larger diameter.   Any one already done this.
  Honda did on the SI...
Do you have any pictures u can share i was thinking of doing it cos the handling lacks from the old honda jazz

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk


culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 08:27:31 AM »
Fitted a 19mm rear anti roll bar, reduced under steer, the turn in is much better.
 Looking now to replace the front one, with a larger diameter.   Any one already done this.
  Honda did on the SI...

If you really want to sharpen steering and improve turn-in on Jazz you will need to fit a Civic steering rack LOL

The Jazz seems to have twice as many steering wheel turns from lock-to-lock and this catches me out sometimes when I swap between My wifes Si Jazz and my Civic,  normally on Civic it is just a flick of steerring wheel to navigate an island or bend,  but in the Jazz more turning is required.  Mind you I prefer the Jazz on a car park as the steering lock is great for getting in and out of tight spots - still that's what the Jazz is - a city car and the Civic loves the open road wroom wroom  ;D
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest5079

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2017, 11:37:08 AM »
I am sorry to show my ignorance but given the rear axle is a beam with fixed ends how can an anti roll bar have any effect on the action of the axle. Each end of the beam is fixed via rubber bushes to the body and so if one wheel goes up the other has to follow.It appears a bush in the centre of the beam allows for a little movement but very little. Or am I well off beam ( sorry ) Incidentally these bushes do not appear to be a replacement item, a new beam is required. OUCH.
Unlike the old DeDion axle which was basically a beam axle the 'tube' was split and so the wheels could move up and down independently.
As to changing the front anti roll bar, having looked up the on line manual,for another job, this has all the appearance of being a right pig of a job. The first thing that rang alarm bells was to remove the steering wheel. Why cars have to be complicated in the good old days the anti roll bar was invariably in front of the suspension and so a 'five minute job'.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2017, 02:46:40 PM »
Jazz doesn't have a rear anti roll bar as far as I am aware. Here is the parts schematic.

guest5079

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2017, 03:07:43 PM »
Since posting my question, I have interrogated Google and it seems the beam axle has a degree of flex. The axle is designed to have a small amount of movement built in. Reading on and it seems that the racing boys do use the rear anti roll bar on the Jazz BUT it appears that fitting an anti roll bar to the rear axle can have a detrimental effect on the welds etc as it interferes with the designed flex.
Another has written that body problems have occurred. Bearing in mind these are people that thrash the living daylights out of their cars.
It was also said that coil overs would produce a better effect without any possibility of structural damage.
Don't shoot the messenger I just read this, how accurate it is I know not.
Incidentally, good old Wikipedia reckons these 'torsion' beam axles save the manufacturer about £100 and also time in assembly. If you watch the latest Citroen ad, when they fly out of the car park, the inside rear wheel lifts off the ground, something that Jezza complained of when  testing a VW Golf GT but it seems VW now fit proper rear suspension on the latest Golf GT.

guest1372

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2017, 12:02:34 AM »
I think the beam is a smart solution for a simple build, the thickness and bend of the metal must be highly designed for optimum response.  One of the side effects of this torsion beam and the angles it forms when loaded is a small degree of rear wheel steer without the complexity (remember the 80's Prelude 4WS?)  I have a chart somewhere that Honda produced for assessment that shows the rear passive steering angle under cornering loads.

[Insert chart when found].
--
TG

Garyman

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2009 1.4 ES
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2017, 10:22:45 AM »
I've got a J's racing front strut and a Cusco rear ARB on my GE6

its all in my build thread if you haven't seen it already  ;D

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=1066.0


rogbro

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Country: gb
  • My Honda: 2013 Jazz EX
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2017, 09:23:47 PM »
Jacks,    Your dead right, there isn't an anti roll bar on the rear of a STANDARD Jazz.

       That's why I fitted one...

guest5079

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2017, 09:53:59 AM »
I am sorry to be a bit of a dunce but how can stiffening up the suspension improve the ride? My basics suggest fitting softer springs and different shock absorbers would be the answer BUT that is a specialist job.
Again sorry to disagree,my EX does NOT roll on corners and it certainly doesn't feel as if it's going to fall over.  Now a Citroen 2CV IS a case of looking as if it is going to fall over.
Perhaps looking at the VSA gizmo might be a good place to start if the car is rolling too much.

JohnAlways

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 249
  • Country: england
  • My Honda: Jazz 1.2i-VTEC S (AC) 2013
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2017, 09:56:31 AM »
A Citroen 2CV does look like they will roll over, but they corner like they are on rails even with the skinny tyres. Must be the canvas roof keeping the centre of gravity low  :P

guest5814

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2017, 06:20:26 PM »
Auntyneddy,  sorry but who's talking about soft suspension, the topic is anti roll bars.

My EX rolls on bends/corners/roundabouts.  Perhaps I could slow down, but where is the fun in that.

The Jazz has an top speed that's suitable for the UK roads, acceleration is reasonable, as long as the revs
are kept over 4500rpm. but driving spiritedly, the handling leaves a lot to be desired. I intend to improve it.

Jocko

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9356
  • Country: scotland
  • Fuel economy:
  • My Honda: Died from rust.
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2017, 06:57:04 PM »
as long as the revs are kept over 4500rpm.
In the year or so I have had mine the revs have never been near there. Don't think I have ever had it over 4000 rpm!

culzean

  • Approved Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8017
  • Country: england
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2017, 07:33:57 PM »
as long as the revs are kept over 4500rpm.
In the year or so I have had mine the revs have never been near there. Don't think I have ever had it over 4000 rpm!

Must admit that these days I don't normally very far north of 4K except when overtaking, or occasionally as an 'Italian tune up'.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 07:38:03 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest5079

  • Topic Starter
  • Guest
Re: Front anti roll bar
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2017, 02:34:05 PM »
Yes I appreciate your post was on anti roll bars. I am not an expert but softer springs do not necessarily mean a rolling car, that is what the anti roll bar is for. I believe on the straight the soft springs give a reasonable ride but on cornering the anti roll bar stops excessive roll. I will bow to Culzean and TG who no doubt will put me right.  BUT I reiterate I do not have any problem with rolling on any bend or curve. I have mentioned the VSA somewhere and perhaps if the car is rolling excessively this may be the cause OR your shockers are suspect.
Mine is a EX and what I do find disconcerting is the fact that it does not roll.  I also like to drive it at reasonable speeds. Whilst it is not a sports car it is possible to get it to move quite quickly and after nearly 3 yrs I am still surprised at the reaction caused by overtaking some of the so called luxury/sports marques. If they want to get a move on it's called an accelerator. As far as they are concerned the Jazz is a stodge driven by old farts and MUST NOT be in front. Yes I am one but I still like to have a bit of legal fun.  I try and keep my hand in remembering what I was taught and it makes the little Jazz fun to drive which at my age is a rare commodity. Good brakes,positive steering, pretty comfortable and reasonably economical whats not to like?

Tags:
 

Back to top