Author Topic: headlamp warning buzzer  (Read 6782 times)

JazzyB

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headlamp warning buzzer
« on: April 22, 2017, 03:08:07 PM »
On my wife's car a Kia Picanto there isn't a light's on buzzer. So I bought one off ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Car-headlight-lamplight-reminder-LEFT-ON-warning-buzzer-12v/192031863136?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40656%26meid%3Dd629ae590a97408390eca4a29481b17b%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D192150278419

Now there's no instructions with this and searching utube doesn't really make it clear how to wire this.

I was gonna wire one side to the side lights fuse and my question is where to wire the other end?

culzean

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 05:34:45 PM »
I have wired these to a couple of cars in the distant past  - you need to access the door open switch and a live connection from sidelights 'on' supply ( i used to put a diode in circuit so that only drivers door operated buzzer, otherwise any door will sound the buzzer).   You need to get the buzzer live (positive) from side light switched supply (only powered when sidelights are on) and let the door switch earth the other side of buzzer.

http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/12v-universal-lights-on-warning-relaybuzzer-72-db.html

here is a 3 terminal buzzer so that if ignition key turned on the buzzer does not sound - there is a button icon on this site to 'download circuit diagram' which would work with two wire buzzer if you take out the 'silence buzzer feed from ignition.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest1372

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 08:00:20 PM »
Ideally this should operate when the three conditions of lights, key and door are met, but with only a buzzer supply and ground wire this could be tricky. 

In the Jazz the lights on warning logic is contained in the gauges cluster.  Other considerations are the Picanto might be using direct wiring like the Jazz Mk1/GD or a multiplex system with a control unit (MICU) like the Mk2/GE, plus the front/rear position lights are switched by relay.  Drawing this out I can't see a simple way of accounting for lights+key+door with just 2 wires and a simple buzzer, plus there are issues about cross-feeding 12V between different circuits. 
--
TG



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JazzyB

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 12:06:29 AM »
Thanks for the replies guys, ironically I did wire one of these many moons ago on a Mk1 fiesta I think I wired it between the sidelights and the door switch I think.........

culzean

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2017, 08:59:47 AM »
Attached is a circuit I used to use,  the diode (a 5 amp diode from maplin or similar) is to..................

1. make sure buzzer only operates on drivers door switch,
2. stops back feeding of voltage from sidelights to interior light circuit ( The door switches also feed into central locking now, so as TG says you have to be more careful with back feeds etc)

There will be a volt drop across diode (about 1 volt) this means the interior lights will be very slightly dimmer when only driver door is open,  but hardly noticeable. It used to be easier when drivers door switch was on the 'A' pillar,  now they mount them on 'B' pillars - this makes them more sensitive to the door being only slightly open now though (which is a good thing). 

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« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 09:30:19 AM by culzean »
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JazzyB

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2017, 11:18:35 AM »
I see on on utube some guys wiring the earth side to one of the ignition controlled circuits like say the cigar lighter on the basis that when the ignition is off that circuit 'grounds' and so completes the circuit?

So am I right in saying that works if I leave say the lights on and turn the ignition off the buzzer sounds?

culzean

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 11:33:17 AM »
I see on on utube some guys wiring the earth side to one of the ignition controlled circuits like say the cigar lighter on the basis that when the ignition is off that circuit 'grounds' and so completes the circuit?

So am I right in saying that works if I leave say the lights on and turn the ignition off the buzzer sounds?

The power feed (12v+) is removed to cigar lighter on most cars when ignition key is 'off' (or removed), not because the cigar lighter is 'grounded' with ignition off , one side of cigar lighter plug (outer) is always grounded anyway.

Anyway in that case every time you had sidelights on without ignition key turned on the buzzer would sound even if the drivers door was closed.

if you post youtube link we can check what they are doing.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JazzyB

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2017, 11:56:18 AM »
heres the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kQRAc5mcn8

If that works then its a simple job, my only concern would be would there be any battery draining with this setup when say the lights are off?

culzean

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2017, 07:31:06 PM »
heres the link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kQRAc5mcn8

If that works then its a simple job, my only concern would be would there be any battery draining with this setup when say the lights are off?

He is correct that if you put 12v on both wires the buzzer will not sound, but it may put 12 volt from one circuit and cross it over to another.  The only thing I can think of is that if you have say a bulb that is connected to earth (negative) and only lights when 12v is connected to it when ignition is on then when the 12v is removed the bulb filament resistance will form a path to earth and may let enough current flow from sidelight bulb positive through the buzzer down to earth through the bulb filament for buzzer to sound  (if it is a piezo buzzer it will have high resistance and not need much current).  You would have to get wiring diagram for the car and spot an opportunity,  bear in mind that power may also flow the opposite way (even though buzzer may not work connected in reverse) so when power is on the chosen connection power will get through to sidelight even though it is not getting power from the light switch on steering column. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest1372

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2017, 09:56:57 PM »
I did an image search for headlamp warning buzzer
and these two links came up which might help although an additional relay is needed plus the MGA site has a good explanation how a piezo buzzer can be made to work.
 
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et245.htm
http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html   scroll down to Example 2
--
TG

JazzyB

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2017, 12:00:30 AM »
Thanks guys for the replies, what I am gonna do is get a relay and wire it with the buzzer.

Looking to get this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-RELAY-4-PIN-AUTOMOTIVE-30AMP-RY1-CHANGEOVER-12-volt-Car-Van-Boat-Spotlight-/291367066168?hash=item43d6d49a38:m:munRXqOlYclZ8W7fsZwIJdg

Can you confirm this is ok?

My understanding is 4 pin relays are 'switching' and what I need and 5 pin ones are 'changeover'. This one is a 4 pin but has changeover in its description?

culzean

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2017, 09:07:51 AM »
Thanks guys for the replies, what I am gonna do is get a relay and wire it with the buzzer.

Looking to get this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-RELAY-4-PIN-AUTOMOTIVE-30AMP-RY1-CHANGEOVER-12-volt-Car-Van-Boat-Spotlight-/291367066168?hash=item43d6d49a38:m:munRXqOlYclZ8W7fsZwIJdg

Can you confirm this is ok?

My understanding is 4 pin relays are 'switching' and what I need and 5 pin ones are 'changeover'. This one is a 4 pin but has changeover in its description?

A 4 pin relay cannot be changeover as you need 2 pins for coil supply,  1 for common, 1 for normally closed (N/C) and 1 for normally open (N/O).  The circuit TG showed in his latest post would work if you could get a 4 pole N/C relay (the contact is closed when NO power to coil) - but these are far less common than N/O (contact only closes when power is on the coil). 

In the long thin drawing in TG post they are using the voltage from ignition to energise the coil and open the 'normally closed' contact, so relay is energised and the contact is open whenever ignition 'ACC' or higher is on, when ignition is turned off the relay (N/C) pole will close and provide a circuit to earth for buzzer,  if the sidelights are off there will be no voltage on positive leg of buzzer,  if the sidelights are on there will be voltage and the buzzer will sound until you turn lights off (sidelights stay on when headlights come on so this will cover headlights as well).  The only downside I can see is that due to limited logic on this circuit the buzzer will sound when the car door is closed so if you ever need to park your car with sidelights on the buzzer will sit in you car buzzing away to itself,  that is the whole reason the door switch is used (as shown in second square drawing in TG post)..
« Last Edit: April 24, 2017, 09:20:12 AM by culzean »
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JazzyB

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2017, 09:46:06 AM »
Thanks guys, in TG's example

I did an image search for headlamp warning buzzer
and these two links came up which might help although an additional relay is needed plus the MGA site has a good explanation how a piezo buzzer can be made to work.
 
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/electric/et245.htm
http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html   scroll down to Example 2
--
TG

The 12 volt planet one scroll down to example 2, it that relay a normally closed or normally open one?

guest1372

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2017, 11:27:50 AM »
These seem to be the common pin numbers, this shows the relay in it's normal or un-energised state.

Some eBay warning buzzers seem to have a buzzer included in a relay case, there are others which look like your original one with something (probably a diode) under heat shrink sleeve on one of the wires.

I had a quick look but the wire that carries the 'key inserted' signal and illuminates the dashboard witness light does not seem very accessible without dismantling quite a lot of plastic trim; just going for door open + lights on as discussed above seems the way to go unless anyone can figure a simple way to switch when there is a lack of 12V (Ign key off or out).

The relay will energise across  85 & 86  fed from the lights and grounded via the door.  The light power also feeds the buzzer through common pin 30 out through N/O pin 87.

No lights = no power to energise or buzz
Door shut = no ground path to close the relay

Just to add to confusion, discovered this variation but I'm not convinced the light switch is in the right place in the diagram, they're usually on the ground side:

--
TG

guest1372

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Re: headlamp warning buzzer
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2017, 01:12:57 PM »
And as a final thought, my sister's Kia Sorento switches it's lights off after a preset time (guide you home) or after you double lock it, it's all part of the modern auto lights system cars seem to have, so no warning beeps there either.  There is some trick you have to do to make the sidelights/parking lights stay permanently on.
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TG

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