Battery Life?

[Defender]

On the cold mornings we've had this week I've noticed the battery has struggled a bit to start my Jazz.
It's now four and half years old, the battery is original, but I would expect a bit more life from it than that?
It does get used far more in the winter than the summer, since being serviced at the beginning of May this year it's covered just under 3000 miles since then, not huge or even average, but not minisclue either.
As its warmed up up a bit now I'll see if it improves, but I think a new battery is on the horizon, I keep a jump stater pack charged just in case it's needed.
Anybody else's battery showing signs of aging etc?

[JohnAlways]

Hi. That's about 6,000 miles a year, if it is many small journeys it's not a lot of time to recoup what you have taken out charging. maybe an overnight charge and you would see the difference. Cold nights making for thicker oil and small battery it would be surprising if it was not a tad slower turning over. My battery is 3 years old and 56,000 miles, at least 35 miles a day in to work and back so it gets a chance to recharge. it used to be about 600 amps initial current draw on a battery when engaging the starter but that was 20 odd years ago but still a heavy drain when you turn the key.
I think 3 years for a battery is probably the manufacturers expected life for the battery, it may last several years more but performance will have degraded. At the end of the day, some batteries last 3 years and some 10. Usage and initial quality of battery (maybe a bit of luck as well) all have a bearing on battery life. I think they are classed as a consumable like pads and disks and clutches etc

[Garyman]

I recently had to change my battery but it lasted a good 7 years lol

[Defender]

Thanks for the replies, to be honest I was expecting a another year or so from it, my journeys to and from work tend to be in darkness at this time of year, my commute is 21 miles each way minimum, if I use a different route for any reason it's longer than that.
I should have said that the current mileage is just under 50000 and had about 11,500 miles on it when I bought it four years ago.
Only in the last year and a half has the annual mileage drop to the current level, which is much more in the winter than the spring summer and autumn.
 

[John Ratsey]

Once the battery has struggled to start the engine then it is likely to be fairly well discharged. During winter with more lights and fans etc increasing the demand on the electrics then it will take longer for the battery to get fully charged again.

If you have a charger, make sure that the battery is fully charged. Then, if it still struggles on the next cold morning, you can be more certain that the problem lies with the battery not delivering due to aging rather than not being fully charged. I would have expected another year or more of service from a battery of that age.

[culzean]

Depth of discharge (how low you let charge level get before you charge it) has a profound effect on battery lifetime - if you can keep battery well charged it will last longer,  every time the battery gets below about 60% charge it suffers cumulative permanent damage to battery chemistry.  Keeping this level of charge isn't too hard if the car gets used every day for a decent journey (starting the engine takes less than 4% of capacity normally,  unless you have to crank engine over for a long time).  The normal run of the mill lead / antimony batteries last about 4 years normally.  The newer lead / calcium and lead silver batteries are more expensive to buy but last a lot longer  - get a good battery if you have an auto car (and some jump leads),  remember you cannot 'bump' start an auto - its the battery or a jump start........

Due to better quality control and construction a modern battery will not normally fail catastrophically (they used to die suddenly and completely with very little notice when welded joints between cells failed)- they normally just gradually get 'tired' and slower to turn engine over as the battery ages and will no longer accept a charge as well as a new one,  and don't want to release power as easily  - in other words batteries lose their capacity as they age - and may drop from a a 40a/h when new to nearer 30 a/h,  and the cranking amps (CCA) gets less as well.

A good and easy test is to put headlights on and watch them while someone else starts the car,  with a new battery voltage may drop to about 9 volts under starting load and lights will go a bit dim, but when battery is on the way out voltage may drop to 6 volts or less under starting load and lights will go very dim.  If lights do go very dim  it may be a bad terminal post to battery cable lug connection,  raise the bonnet and feel the terminals -- if one of them is very warm / hot the terminal to lug connection may need cleaning and a good dose of vaseline (it is normally the positive post that corrodes and gives problems,  but even then modern batteries use better alloys in posts to stop corrosion).

Another thing to remember - most batteries today have a little round porthole in the top with a colour chart next to it,  this is just a floating ball (a hydrometer) to measure specific gravity of acid,  this ball is only looking at one cell to show 'general state of battery charge' - (all cells are sealed from each other) so it is possible one of the other 5 cells has a shorted plate or similar problem which will lower battery voltage and capacity while the ball colour is showing green or whatever to say battery is OK.

[peteo48]

I seem to have been lucky but it's several years since I have had to buy a car battery. Nevertheless I think those days might well be over given the drastic change in my pattern of driving since a house move and retirement have reduced my mileage from 12,000 a year with a fair bit of motorway work down to 6,000 on retirement and now down to 3,000 following a move to be nearer our grandkids. I do a lot of stop start stuff these days.

I do try to get a 10 mile run on the motorway in most weeks by going the long way round to the supermarket!

Is this enough to help?

[guest5715]

I changed ours a few weeks back with a Duracell item from Eurocarparts. I normally buy Bosch but this seems good quality. The old battery was original, 09 plate and still working but I figured nearly 8 years was approaching borrowed time, and the car is used a lot. Starter motor spins much faster now than in the 5 years we've had it.

[culzean]

Although everyone has a preference for battery brand, there are only a very few companies in the world who make batteries (just like there are probably only two or three companies who make tv screens). The Bosch battery probably made in malaysia. Having been involved in battery industry a few years ago my favourite is Yuasa, as I know their technology is top class and will always have one on my motorbikes because unlike a couple other well known brands, yuasa have given long reliable service, at the moment our two Honda cars have yuasa silver batteries, got them for a good price at halfords last year and expecting a good few years of service, maybe even outlast me !

[plasma]

Although everyone has a preference for battery brand, there are only a very few companies in the world who make batteries (just like there are probably only two or three companies who make tv screens). The Bosch battery probably made in malaysia. Having been involved in battery industry a few years ago my favourite is Yuasa, as I know their technology is top class and will always have one on my motorbikes because unlike a couple other well known brands, yuasa have given long reliable service, at the moment our two Honda cars have yuasa silver batteries, got them for a good price at halfords last year and expecting a good few years of service, maybe even outlast me !

+1,good post,I find the same with our bikes and car ,you can not go wrong with aYuasa battery.

Plasma.

[madasafish]

I seem to have been lucky but it's several years since I have had to buy a car battery. Nevertheless I think those days might well be over given the drastic change in my pattern of driving since a house move and retirement have reduced my mileage from 12,000 a year with a fair bit of motorway work down to 6,000 on retirement and now down to 3,000 following a move to be nearer our grandkids. I do a lot of stop start stuff these days.

I do try to get a 10 mile run on the motorway in most weeks by going the long way round to the supermarket!

Is this enough to help?

The killer for batteries is winter, : short distances with lights and heaters  and wipers on. These will discharge your battery - and leave it so . Leaving a battery discharged for long periods is a BAD THING... its capacity slowly reduces.

(Our Toyota Yaris - like its predecessors over 30 years is driven like that . It kills batteries.Annual lifespan 2-3 years)

I make a habit of placing the Yaris battery on charge once a month so it is fully charged...  from October to March. It's not needed in the summer. Its last battery lasted 3.5years.

Buy a replacement with a 4 year warranty and keep the receipt... then you get 6 years life!  That's what I now do.

Our Jazz does 6,000 miles a year but average journey is 8 miles so no issues there.

[Garyman]

I recently had to change my battery but it lasted a good 7 years lol

Thought I'd update this as my original battery was replaced in Feb16 according to my dealer as I've been having a few issues.

I've noticed its taken a little longer to start the engine in the morning as if the battery was dying but didn't think anything of it bearing in mine the battery is still relatively new.

However, it was completely dead on Sunday when I tried to start the car up so had to jump start it with my missus car and its been fine, although slightly hesitant.

I took it to the garage this morning and they naturally said the battery is still very good, but just needed recharging so they charged it up for about an hour and said all is good now.

They showed me a print out they had which showed the battery was between 60-70% charged when they first plugged the diagnostic machine thingy in

Found it strange but will be keeping my eye on this over the coming days/ weeks.  If it happens again, i'll insist on them replacing it with a new one

[culzean]

I recently had to change my battery but it lasted a good 7 years lol

Thought I'd update this as my original battery was replaced in Feb16 according to my dealer as I've been having a few issues.

What brand and chemistry of battery did they fit (lead antimony, lead calcium, lead silver ?) and what is your normal driving pattern ?  Has the car ever been left standing for a long time,  and if you you do low mileage do you do as Madasafish advises and boost the battery charge with an external charger in colder months (by the way,  batteries 'self-discharge' faster in warmer weather,  so may be a good thing all year round) - I have had a charging plug lead with fuse inline connected to motorbike for many years now,  and having retired last year and doing fewer miles I have fitted one to car as well to keep battery topped up - a battery kept within the top 10% of its charge will last a lot longer than one that is either allowed to stand in a partially discharged state,  or is regularly deeply discharged (depth of discharge is a very important thing for car batteries).

If a battery was kept around 60% charged it would sulphate up - this coats the plates with a hard white coating that interferes with battery chemistry and basically 'stops the electricity getting in and out' --- reducing batteries ability to accept a charge and to release it when needed.

you can get many types of maintenance chargers (ones that you can leave connected and will vary the charge to basically zero when battery is charged)   Optimate,  CTEK, Battery tender and Oxford are pretty common ones with a good reputation.  They all pretty well use a standard SAE plug and socket nowadays.

I got an 8 metre extension lead from quadbike wales to keep charger in garage and charge both cars on the driveway


https://www.amazon.co.uk/OPTIMATE-PERMENANT-CONNECTION-CHARGERS-ACCESSORIES/dp/B009YJ0QF2/ref=sr_1_184?m=A3T9QHDC3D3PK4&s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1497958764&sr=1-184&keywords=quad+bike+wales

https://www.amazon.co.uk/BATTERY-TENDER-EXTENSION-CABLE-CONNECTOR/dp/B01M03OM9D/ref=sr_1_481?m=A3T9QHDC3D3PK4&s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1497960823&sr=1-481&keywords=quad+bike+wales

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/vis/Battery-OptiMate-Optimate-2-Charger/B0079XVW5S

[Garyman]

Hi @culzean,

thank you for your reply.

I don't know exactly what type or brand my local Honda dealer used, I just assumed it was another OEM one and it sure looks like my previous one lol.

As I live relatively close to work, I only do short journeys - maybe 8 miles return and don't go above 40mph.  I use my car Monday to Fridays and then not used over the weekends as I drive the family car- CRV.

Everything seemed normal and been using the car no differently to any other days/ week but I had to use my car this weekend and that was when I tried to start the car and nothing.  I wouldn't had thought it being the hottest day of the year so far would had caused it but judging from what you said, maybe that was it ?

Will have to look into getting one of those chargers you've suggested.

Many thanks again- invaluable advice per usual 

[culzean]

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/elevating_self_discharge

Other thing to check is that boot light is not stuck on or similar (parasitic load) when ignition is off.  It has been known for the relay contacts for heated mirrors and windows to stick closed and then the battery will be discharged in hours.

Only thing about leaving a charging lead on the car is that you have to remember to unplug before driving off - If you are like me a post-it note on steering wheel may be required LOL