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Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Pine on February 03, 2017, 06:47:02 PM
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If I get a Smart Meter installed by British Gas and sometime in the future move to another energy supplier can my new supplier use the meter installed by British Gas?
I ask because I am considering getting a smart meter but every 12 months I review energy prices and often change supplier.
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There is a Smart Meter website that may answer the question but from what I have read smart meters are not compatible with every supplier at the moment.
Smart meters are not compulsory, they are optional although the way suppliers and the government behave you could be excused for thinking otherwise.
My question about smart meters is regarding the security of your personal information. The contact between your meters and your supplier is via mobile phone lines. Hackers are very clever and getting better at what they do. If you ask the question about security you don't get a straight answer.
Vic.
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https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/smart-technology/smart-meters/can-i-switch-energy-suppliers-with-smart-meter.html (https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/smart-technology/smart-meters/can-i-switch-energy-suppliers-with-smart-meter.html)
I heard a good discussion on the radio last year about these, one expert said there is no reason to introduce smart meters unless suppliers are going to go for variable tariffs (like the old economy 7 with its separate meter) and suppliers did not seem to want to do that, that also said UK had chosen the short range radio version (they communicate with a radio system installed by OVO energy the range of which is affected by weather, they do not use mobile phone masts) instead of the more usable system that uses the electrical supply cables to carry the signal. We have been arf-arzed again same as we were with DAB radio etc.
They had a good system when we lived in Australia, because they wanted to reduce the peak demand on their electrical supply system they had domestic immersion heaters running through special relay, this relay could be turned off and on by a signal down the supply cables to shed load from the system for short periods of high demand from other devices (industry etc.) This kept prices down because they did not have to build expensive extra capacity just to deal with peaks in the system.
I already have a good device that tracks my usage etc. My brother rang me up last year and asked if smart meters were compulsory as his supplier had come on very strong, I told him to tell them to get lost as it is purely a consumer choice. My supplier sends me an email when they want readings and I send one back with 24 hrs, good enough for me.
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You might as well have one fitted.
I have the BG smart meter in one house (elec + gas), a Calor lpg tank remote reader in another, and I've never even seen my meter in London as they all probably live together in a secure area.
Didn't cost me anything, doesn't require me to do anything, and the display provided a modicum of interest for about a week although it is reassuring to see the current tariff/rates are the ones we expect. The likelihood is that BG meters will be the dominant metering style as they comply with UK Smart Metering Equipment Technical Specifications (SMETS), if you switch to Npower next year then it's up to them to read the meter. If their system is incompatible for some reason you can always submit readings or have it read, or they will come round and change it at no cost.
Ours uses two radio transmissions, the primary link to the head-end uses mobile phone data networks, data to the in-home display uses a variant of Zigbee (IEEE 802.15.4 based) running in ISM band. Your data such as MPN, reading, time, sequence & security token are encoded into a packet and sent periodically.
If you are happy to do online banking or purchase from websites then you should have no worries sending usage data.
If Russian hackers can figure out that I used 4.5kW of electricity I don't mind.
If BG suddenly think I've used 4500kW of electricity then it will be out of character, so they will ask the meter for another reading.
If you look online you'll see some disappointment that the in-home metering data is closed and not available to home automation systems, plus quite a lot of fun from the tin foil hat brigade.
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TG
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You might as well have one fitted.
Didn't cost me anything,
Guess what, you will definitely pay through your bill (and unfortunately so will I who does not want one, you can get energy readout / usage tracking devices from pound shop these days, I have an owl one that cost £20 and the batteries have lasted 18 months so far and still going) - energy suppliers are not going to take a hit of £350 per customer lying down, NPower put smart meters at the top of their list for their hike in energy bills just announced. Apparently energy companies are not allowed to charge consumers directly for the cost of the meter so will get money back through 'other avenues' like increasing everyones energy costs (whether you have a meter or not) and selling energy use data to third parties (data is the new oil, its worth a lot of money). These useless meters are a legacy of an EU directive - well good riddance to them.
I have a feeling it wont be long before thieves hack into smart meters to check when people are at home, and no I am not one of the 'tinfoil hat' brigade but anything with a radio signal is easy to hack, wired systems are harder (that is why we continued to use our undersea cable network in both world wars, it was totally secure, we wrecked the smaller German network at beginning of WW1 by dredging their cables up and stuffed them good and proper).
http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/595477/Smart-meter-sign-up-good-idea-energy-water-bills (http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/595477/Smart-meter-sign-up-good-idea-energy-water-bills)
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I heard a good discussion on the radio last year about these, one expert said there is no reason to introduce smart meters unless suppliers are going to go for variable tariffs (like the old economy 7 with its separate meter) and suppliers did not seem to want to do that, that also said UK had chosen the short range radio version (they communicate with a radio system installed by OVO energy the range of which is affected by weather, they do not use mobile phone masts) instead of the more usable system that uses the electrical supply cables to carry the signal. We have been arf-arzed again same as we were with DAB radio etc.
I have an Ovo smart meter and it uses the mobile phone network. I asked the guy who installed it which network and he said that the SIM card would automatically use whichever network has the best signal and, if that network goes down, would automatically switch to the next best signal. The SIM card is in the electricity meter which also broadcasts to the readout in the house (so maybe people could read that but I don't think it would be of much use to them as the energy consumption is very predictable). There is also a short range radio link from the gas meter to the electricity meter.
One advantage is no need for regular meter readings but someone comes once a year to do a manual check. Another advantage is showing how sensitive the gas bill is to the outside temperature. However, while all the suppliers were intended to use the same system from the start, this hasn't happened so there are potential compatibility issues if switching suppliers.
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Good programme last thursday evening on ITV Tonight at 19:30 all about smart meters which is still available on catch up.
Ultimately the consumer pays for the smart meter installations and the energy supply companies save money by needing less meter readers which I'm sure they will pass on the savings to the consumers which is about as likely as pigs becoming airborne!
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Our prior energy company installed a smart meter in 2016 for electricity. Our new supplier EON cannot use it.
My experience is they are a complete waste of money. What is wrong with monthly/weekly/daily readings?
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As usual UK chose worst option for communications, most of Europe uses PLC (power line communication) using cables that are already there and are immune to weather and it does not matter whether your area has a mobile signal or not it still operates. This is just a larger version of the home plugs you can use to distribute internet around your home, we have used them since they first appeared, fast, trouble free and secure.
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When smart meters are compatible with any energy supplier then I might consider having them fitted.
At the moment OVO email me every month requesting meter readings but I can see there may come a time when it would be convenient if I or my wife didn't have to open the garage door to get the readings.
Vic.
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There is a golden opportunity with smart meters to have cheaper off-peak electrical tariff, but from what I have read and heard it is not on the agenda - wonder why energy companies did not want to do it ha ha. If there had been a suggestion for raising tariff from base for peak times they would knock you over in the rush to implement it.
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Here is an interesting article from the Saturday Telegraph reference smart metering.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/bills-and-utilities/gas-electric/paying-11bn-smart-meters-wont-stop-plague-billing-errors/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/bills-and-utilities/gas-electric/paying-11bn-smart-meters-wont-stop-plague-billing-errors/)
Vic.
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There is a golden opportunity with smart meters to have cheaper off-peak electrical tariff, but from what I have read and heard it is not on the agenda
We have been on Economy 7 for many years where you seven hours of off peak electricity roughly between midnight and 8am. It used to be said that you only need to have a freezer to make Economy 7 worth having. All our washing is done at night and our hot water is heated up.
Vic.
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When we all,have smart meters electricity companies will start to charge more if you use electricity at peak time. If you boil a kettle at breakfast time you will pay top price for the privilege.
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When we all,have smart meters electricity companies will start to charge more if you use electricity at peak time. If you boil a kettle at breakfast time you will pay top price for the privilege.
I was kind of hoping that they would have lower pricing for overnight electricity (like economy 7) but due to increasing reliance on solar (definitely does not work at night, works better in summer when you need the power least though DOHHHH) and wind (wind normally drops at night) I think it is a faint hope and I suspect you are correct that they will begin charging more at peak times when we plug in our new low wattage 'Eco' EU toasters that take 10 minutes to make toast and our 1200watt 'EU' kettles that take all day to boil. The reason NPower put prices up (and so will the rest) is to cover the £11BN (yes that is correct ) cost of rolling out smart meters because they are not allowed to charge customers directly for fitting them. I will not be getting a smart meter and when my bill goes up I will be writing to my MP and supplier to ask why I am paying the cost of smart meters but do not have them on my house.
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Forgive me for being a little slow in understanding about smart meters. £11bn to supply and fit? Why can't they just be a plug in into the nearest 13amp socket? I unfortunately buy my electricity from EDF a wholly owned subsidiary of EDF France which in turn is subsidised by the French government, which I understood was against EU rules. Another gripe is because we are ALL electric we get no discounts as the dual fuel people do. However at the last time of discussion friends who have a property in France ( boy are they moaning now) their electircity was considerably cheaper than here in the UK.
Back to the plug in, if EDF can turn my economy 7 on and off by a signal down the power lines why can't the smart meter work the same way????? One can buy all sorts of electrical gizmos on line and a cost of only a few pounds so where in heavens name does the figure £11bn come from? Nice little earner!!!!!!!!!!!!!Perhaps I am being too simplistic as the signal to operate the economy 7 is I believe a pulse so to be more sensible perhaps the smart meter would be just a LITTLE more complicated. However, if it can't just be a plug in where is to be fitted? Our meter is in a box OUTSIDE the bungalow. I believe there is a thought that it is another way of gathering information. So if I do not want one is there going to be a one off rebate???? I think not.
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The UK rejected the opportunity to control these smart meters with signal over the normal power cables (like economy 7) and opted to used short range wi-fi for gas to electric meter and then mobile phone network for the long distance communications LOL. Other countries use power lines for signals, I have a feeling we went for most complicated most expensive least reliable option again, but HS2 will dwarf smart meter cost when the taxpayer gets the £90BN + bill, not a bad price for a white elephant ego project.
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First Utility supplied our smart meter for electricity last year.
I switched to EON - and the smart meter is incompatible.
Wast of money..
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First Utility supplied our smart meter for electricity last year.
I switched to EON - and the smart meter is incompatible.
Wast of money..
I recently moved to a new build where a smart meter was already installed for the electricity, but the gas was just the normal one.
Once in, I found that both gas and electricity was provided by British Gas but I wanted to port over my Utility provider which incidentally was First Utility.
Took a while to get everything transferred over due to British Gas incompetence but I got a call earlier this week from Enpower (?) who said they are ringing on behalf of Siemens and want to arrange a time for an engineer to come out and change out meters to smart meters and will also provide the screen/ unit so I can see how much energy i'm using.
This has been arranged for mid June which is their next availability and apparently at no cost to me
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First Utility supplied our smart meter for electricity last year.
I switched to EON - and the smart meter is incompatible.
Wast of money..
I recently moved to a new build where a smart meter was already installed for the electricity, but the gas was just the normal one.
Once in, I found that both gas and electricity was provided by British Gas but I wanted to port over my Utility provider which incidentally was First Utility.
Took a while to get everything transferred over due to British Gas incompetence but I got a call earlier this week from Enpower (?) who said they are ringing on behalf of Siemens and want to arrange a time for an engineer to come out and change out meters to smart meters and will also provide the screen/ unit so I can see how much energy i'm using.
This has been arranged for mid June which is their next availability and apparently at no cost to me
Energy suppliers are not (unfortunately) allowed to charge for installation, but everyones bills will go up because they are not going to absorb the £11Billion and rising cost of fitting smart meters to every home. So even people like me who don't want one will get hit with higher bills. Without variable tariffs the smart meters are just a pretty display and a saving in meter readers wages for the suppliers.
Seems like with most things, the early adopters have been guinea pigs for the ones who are prepared to wait until they have sorted things out (but that may be after 2020 LOL )
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/oct/01/smart-meter-energy-saving-revolution-cut-bills-gas-electricity (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/oct/01/smart-meter-energy-saving-revolution-cut-bills-gas-electricity)
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Some weeks back I received a letter from EDF who stated that because I owed them £122 my D/D was going up by £35 per month.
I checked my bank statements and looked at payment dates for my D/D. Their claim that I owed this money was based on my account 5 days prior to my monthly D/D payment being made. This payment put me in the black.
Now, they used to have a yearly review and every year they have had a letter from me informing them that any outstanding balance would be settled immediately. Each year they have accepted this. In about 4 yrs I have only had to do this once. This latest caper was a 6 monthly assessment. So I wrote to EDF expressing my displeasure. A week after I received an acknowledgement, still waiting for a proper reply.
Perhaps me sending a copy of the letter to OFGEN who can't intercede might have upset EDF. The reason I am really pigged about all this is I received a letter to tell me they were only going to read the meter every 6 mths. Then I had the letter re the above based on an estimate which was well after the time allotted. Also states in their blurb that no revisions would be done without a meter reading either by them or by me.
Do these people make it up as they go along? As to smart meters no reply to my questions. I know Hinckley Point is going to cost some but I do not see why we should subsidise EDF's parent company in France ( which is subsidised by the French government). The trouble with getting old and having time on our hands is we all become Victor Meldrews. I now understand EDF is increasing their prices again, we have only just had one increase.
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In the past I have had arguments with both NPower and BG about DD payments. About 12 years ago was with BG and out of the blue they raised my DD from £60 to over £100 P/M which would have meant a surplus of many 100's of pounds by end of year - I wrote them emails and letters asking them to check and gave them 3 weeks to get back to me otherwise I was leaving, they did not reply and I changed to NPower, a week later a letter arrived from BG saying their accounts dept had made a mistake and did I want to stay with them - (fat chance). NPower did something similar after I had been with them for a few years so I moved to Cooperative energy about 5 years ago - as well as saving about £400 a year their DD was spot on and needed hardly any adjustment for years, they wrote to me recently to apologise for putting my dual fuel DD up by £3 PM, what a difference in attitude to the members of 'big 6 energy supplier mafia cartel'.
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I am very grateful for the opportunity to rip one off but I did think I had gone too far with this one. I therefore grateful to Culzean for his input.
Yesterday, I went onto U switch to get some idea of what is available. Four attempts and each occasion it told me that EDF did not have a D/D account for my supply. The old conspiracy theory pops into my fuddled brain!!!!
Therefore not only has Culzean made me feel that I am not a two headed monster but has given me an idea re the COOP. Perhaps they might be able to reduce the £30 plus a week I pay EDF for an all electric 600 sq ft bungalow. I know it's not helped by the necessity to have a de humidifier running 24/7 to keep the humidity with very limited parameters.
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I know it's not helped by the necessity to have a de humidifier running 24/7 to keep the humidity with very limited parameters.
Having a dehumidifier can save your heating bills because they keep the air drier (and dry air takes less to heat) keeps the insulation and plasterboard in your home dry (dry insulation is better insulation) , clothes drying bills (put clothes on a drying rack in same room as dehumidifier and a couple of hours they are dry at fraction of cost of a tumble drier energy)and also the de-humidifier puts heat back into the room both from the motor and the energy it gets from condensing moisture. A big bonus is that the whole house feels fresher and no more soggy towels in the bathroom, also bedding stays crisper and nicer feeling. We have had a dehumidifier for about 15 years ( i got one to control allergy to dust mites as the little b#ggers can't breed if house is kept dry) and wouldn't be without one, you can use the collected water in your steam iron or washing the car (it is distilled water).
I have been very happy with Cooperative Energy, a breath of fresh air after the other crooks.
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I've been with Ovo for the past three years and they have given good service and competitive pricing. They also pay interest on any credit balance https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/payments-and-statements/ovo-interest-reward/what-is-the-ovo-interest-reward.html (https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/payments-and-statements/ovo-interest-reward/what-is-the-ovo-interest-reward.html). It's cheap money for them and pays much better than having the money sitting in my bank account so I've been maintaining a credit balance of several hundred £££s as a fund ready for a rise in energy costs. The credit built up during the first year when I was paying the same amount as to my previous supplier.
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I know there has been a slight deviation from smart meters but electricity supply and cost is associated.
I managed to get U switch to respond and quite honestly it gave me a bit of a fright.
According to them EDF's charges for Kwh are going up again to 23p, this is what the PM ( although it hasn't had much reporting) has had a go about. EDF have just increased to nearly 19p so another 3 +p will increase my yearly bill by some £400. This is what U switch came up with. What really pigs me orf is that scrolling down on good old Google was one for a Daily Mirror special deal. Unfortunately it is now closed BUT WHO WAS SUPPLYING THE DEAL EDF.
Perhaps ( pigs might fly) that when the dust settles over BREXIT we can as a nation start kicking all these foreign firms out and return our industry etc to home rule. I also read that there has been a large increase in applications for Irish passports from Northern Island and GB.
There that will start something off.
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I've been with Ovo for the past three years and they have given good service and competitive pricing. They also pay interest on any credit balance https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/payments-and-statements/ovo-interest-reward/what-is-the-ovo-interest-reward.html (https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-answers/topics/payments-and-statements/ovo-interest-reward/what-is-the-ovo-interest-reward.html). It's cheap money for them and pays much better than having the money sitting in my bank account so I've been maintaining a credit balance of several hundred £££s as a fund ready for a rise in energy costs. The credit built up during the first year when I was paying the same amount as to my previous supplier.
Me too John, their service and prices have been very competitive with monthly reminders for meter readings.
Vic.
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Given what I heard this am I am not sorry I have told EDF I do not want a smart meter.
Paul Lewis the Money Box Guru was talking about smart meters on Breakfast TV.
I hope I have this correct, as the result of security issues a central networking hub is being set up and the second generation of smart meters are being prepared/rolled out.
Paul Lewis stated that NOBODY can deny or confirm that the first generation smart meters will work with the new system and he finished with the remark 'of course it can all implode' assuming he means the whole sorry saga will collapse.
If I have it wrong I apologize and look forward to any corrections because it all seems a bit airy fairy.
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Given that there is no real benefit and some potential downsides to having a smart meter I can't see what the attraction is other than not having to walk a few metres and read your meter 4 times a year.
Let the early adopters suffer the teething troubles, as I said before UK chose the least secure option by using radio / phone network, other countries use the power cables to carry the data and these are already going to everyones house that is connected to electricity supply - doooohhhh, what a no brainer.
This is a worry, seems supplier can disconnect your supply via your smart meter.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5607490 (http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5607490)
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Given that there is no real benefit and some potential downsides to having a smart meter I can't see what the attraction is other than not having to walk a few metres and read your meter 4 times a year.
We are with OVO and get monthly reminders for meter readings which we do. That's nearly as good as a Smart Meter which while it may constantly monitor your usage it only bills you at the most monthly.
Apparently of those people who have been conned into having Smart Meters, over 60% have already dumped the indoor usage monitor because it causes arguments and in any case you are going to keep warm and cook food regardless of what the meter says.
Vic.
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We have an Owl energy readout that when you put tariff in will give you readout of cost of your usage and also read out and live graph showing real time energy use, it also takes multiple tariffs and the times those are in use.
it cost £20 and batteries have lasted 2 years so far.
Co-op energy also send you a reminder e-mail 4 times a year for a reading.
Apparently if you change supplier the meters revert back to 'dumb meters'.
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I think that the gov't gave smart meter installation targets to the energy providers so they didn't have much choice but find people willing to have them installed.
I sometimes look at both the meter read out unit and the daily consumption data in my Ovo account. However, while it is interesting to see that my gas bill almost doubled between last Monday and Tuesday (when the weather turned chilly) there's not much I can do about it. On the other hand, the daily electricity consumption is almost constant except when the wife decides to have a cooking session and loves to have pans bubbling away. But there's not much I can do about that either!
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I think that the gov't gave smart meter installation targets to the energy providers so they didn't have much choice but find people willing to have them installed.
When /if electricty shortages happen, smart meters allow the Grid to switch off consumers.. and control a switch back on...
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When /if electricty shortages happen, smart meters allow the Grid to switch off consumers.. and control a switch back on...
Cutting people off is the extreme but there's the option of being able to sign up to a lower tariff subject to being disconnected for agreed maximum periods. Places such as cold stores do that already as they don't need continuous power.
More appropriate at the domestic level is that because smart meters measure consumption by the hour (or less) there is the potential to vary the charging according to the time of day and thereby herd people towards using the energy at times of lower demand (and cost). Not that I would be able to get the wife to do her cooking in the middle of the night but one could put a time delay on a tumble drier (and hope it doesn't catch fire). However, there would need to be a very interactive system to handle a glut of solar energy when the sun shines.
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one could put a time delay on a tumble drier
We already do our washing and heat our hot water at night and have done for many years. It's called Economy 7.
Vic.
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Another failure for smart meters
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/millions-of-smart-meters-may-need-replacing-due-to-it-blunder/ar-BBANnrW?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=MEDDHP (http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/millions-of-smart-meters-may-need-replacing-due-to-it-blunder/ar-BBANnrW?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=MEDDHP)