Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Bristol_Crosstar on September 20, 2021, 09:03:12 AM
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I travelled on the M5 a few days ago using ACC and LKAS. There was traffic congestion around Taunton and the traffic slowed to a stop at some points. ACC was brilliant and brought the car to a stop, restarted when the queue started moving and kept a good distance between cars. LKAS though stopped working when the speed dropped to somewhere between 10 and 20 mph, there were no steering adjustments and the car started to drift into the hard shoulder. I correccted then left it to see what happened and it did it again. Once the speed of the traffic picked up LKAS started working again. Not a major issue now I know what to expect but surprised me at the time, although since the car was going so slowly didn't really create any danger.
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As per the Owners Manual, LKAS works between 45mph and 112mph, it actually drops off @ 40mph but begins to work @45mph.
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As per the Owners Manual, LKAS works between 45mph and 112mph, it actually drops off @ 40mph but begins to work @45mph.
OK thanks didn't see that, sure it was still working below 40 though
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As standard there is no warning to tell you it has switched on/off - you can set the car to beep when it does though.
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I accidentally hit the LKAS button at the weekend and I noticed the steering did try and keep me central.
It was in the dark and I missed the ACC cancel button.
Dear Honda, please put some raised dots on the ACC cancel button so I can find it without looking :)
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LKAS.?????
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I accidentally hit the LKAS button at the weekend and I noticed the steering did try and keep me central.
It was in the dark and I missed the ACC cancel button.
Dear Honda, please put some raised dots on the ACC cancel button so I can find it without looking :)
You don't cancel LKAS with the ACC cancel button, you use the LKAS button to both turn on and off LKAS.
LKAS is independent from ACC operation.
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i have the impression that LKAS can be dangerous.
What if you are driving at 80mph hands off the steering wheel and suddenly a line is no longer visible? LKAS might take you out of the road and i wonder if you will have enough time to take the control of your vehicle.
You can only have your hands off the wheel for only a short period, around 45 seconds to 1 minute, it is an assist system not automated driving. You still have to be in control of the vehicle and aware of the traffic situations
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I accidentally hit the LKAS button at the weekend and I noticed the steering did try and keep me central.
It was in the dark and I missed the ACC cancel button.
Dear Honda, please put some raised dots on the ACC cancel button so I can find it without looking :)
You don't cancel LKAS with the ACC cancel button, you use the LKAS button to both turn on and off LKAS.
LKAS is independent from ACC operation.
I must have not worded it quite well ......
I was on the M4 eastbound approaching Slough where the roadworks started and they'd shut all lanes. I had been running on ACC but was about to break off the motorway on diversion.
What I meant to do was cancel ACC but I accidentally hit LKAS instead of Cancel
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i have the impression that LKAS can be dangerous.
What if you are driving at 80mph hands off the steering wheel and suddenly a line is no longer visible? LKAS might take you out of the road and i wonder if you will have enough time to take the control of your vehicle.
For the AAC as some other members have pointed out , it does some unpredictable breaking and the driver behind you might hit your car.
ACC is fine, it's not quite so extreme with Eco switched on and I'd only use it on the motorway.
LKAS is fine too on the motorway, not dangerous so long as you understand it's limitations.
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I get the impression that as new models are produced for Europe, by all manufacturers, these systems will be introduced to satisfy NCAP. 5*
They may name it differently but CMBS, RDMS, ACC and LKAS will be across the board.
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Just a shame some of them are on by default.
In my short ownership I've found RDMS to be the major pain so off it goes each journey.
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When driving on a narrow country road and you need to pass an oncoming car.
If you pull in close to the verge, then RDMS will attempt to steer you away from the verge and into the path of the oncoming car, which is not funny! :(
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When driving on a narrow country road and you need to pass an oncoming car.
If you pull in close to the verge, then RDMS will attempt to steer you away from the verge and into the path of the oncoming car, which is not funny! :(
Yup, I've had to persuade the car not to move out towards an oncoming vehicle in those circumstances.
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When driving on a narrow country road and you need to pass an oncoming car.
If you pull in close to the verge, then RDMS will attempt to steer you away from the verge and into the path of the oncoming car, which is not funny! :(
Yup, I've had to persuade the car not to move out towards an oncoming vehicle in those circumstances.
Same here - it's generally good but went crazy once when I was on a narrow winding country road without a white line in the middle.
Was bleeping away and flashing a warning because it thought maybe the whole road was the lane and it thought I was too far left of the lane. Luckily nothing was coming the other way at the time.
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I'm not too sure exactly what RDMS is looking for but when I forgot to turn it off I was getting fairly frequent steering wheel wobbles and the orange steering wheel symbol on the dash.
A fair number of these warnings seemed to be other road markings like the black strips they paint in to seal road repair joins as per an image I posted last week.
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I'm not too sure exactly what RDMS is looking for but when I forgot to turn it off I was getting fairly frequent steering wheel wobbles and the orange steering wheel symbol on the dash.
A fair number of these warnings seemed to be other road markings like the black strips they paint in to seal road repair joins as per an image I posted last week.
I've had it a few times where I get the message "RDMS has temporarily been suspended" on a road where it's getting so many violations it can't cope, then it switches itself back on a few minutes later
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I'm not too sure exactly what RDMS is looking for but when I forgot to turn it off I was getting fairly frequent steering wheel wobbles and the orange steering wheel symbol on the dash.
A fair number of these warnings seemed to be other road markings like the black strips they paint in to seal road repair joins as per an image I posted last week.
I've had it a few times where I get the message "RDMS has temporarily been suspended" on a road where it's getting so many violations it can't cope, then it switches itself back on a few minutes later
That is normal operation, if the system operates several times without detecting driver response the system will beep to alert you and after that the assist is temporarily stopped.
The system is detecting not only white lines, but also identify the road edge and this can be where road repairs and texture changes can cause misdetection. Like Kremmen mentioned the tar line, the camera is detecting what it thinks is a road edge and trying to mitigate a deviation.
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Fortunately there is a solution, if you remember :D
After I pull out of the garage and look up to close the garage door :
(https://i.imgur.com/fcBaaqy.jpg)
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When driving on a narrow country road and you need to pass an oncoming car.
If you pull in close to the verge, then RDMS will attempt to steer you away from the verge and into the path of the oncoming car, which is not funny! :(
Yup, I've had to persuade the car not to move out towards an oncoming vehicle in those circumstances.
My brother has had some fun and games with his auto braking and lane keeping in his Suzuki - none of them seem fit for purpose and can be downright dangerous, he switches off a the rubbish when he gets into car, and only uses ACC on motorway, but I think even the novelty of that is wearing off......
Many of the features are not even beta level and I wonder how many accidents they have caused, if I had a passenger who grabbed the steering wheel or randomly applied the brakes they would either complete the journey in the boot or as a pedestrian...
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I had a scare on a motorway last week. In my case it was Adaptive Cruise Control that caused the problem. I emailed the details and my concerns to the chief exec of Honda UK. No reply so far. I suggest that everyone who feels that these systems are not fit for purpose lets the top man know.
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I had a scare on a motorway last week. In my case it was Adaptive Cruise Control that caused the problem. I emailed the details and my concerns to the chief exec of Honda UK. No reply so far. I suggest that everyone who feels that these systems are not fit for purpose lets the top man know.
Your driving situation is cover in the owners manual and depending on the situations may occur.
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I had a scare on a motorway last week. In my case it was Adaptive Cruise Control that caused the problem. I emailed the details and my concerns to the chief exec of Honda UK. No reply so far. I suggest that everyone who feels that these systems are not fit for purpose lets the top man know.
Your driving situation is cover in the owners manual and depending on the situations may occur.
Well, yes, it does mention it, but it doesn't say: "Warning: Using the automatic safety features on this vehicle may cause serious accidents and endanger life"
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Having experienced ACC in the Jazz and CC in the Civic my vote is for plain old CC.
You know where you are with CC, no nasty surprises like most of these new systems can produce for both the driver and other road users.
Don't blame Honda though, all vehicles will have these in time thanks to NCAP.
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Having experienced ACC in the Jazz and CC in the Civic my vote is for plain old CC.
You know where you are with CC, no nasty surprises like most of these new systems can produce for both the driver and other road users.
Don't blame Honda though, all vehicles will have these in time thanks to NCAP.
My theory about my incident is that the focus of the radar sensor is too wide. It should not be detecting a vehicle in an adjacent lane, especially when lanes are clearly marked.
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There is no radar sensor, it is purely done by the forward facing camera and as you had steered to change lane, for a moment you would have been heading toward the vehicle is the adjacent lane. Do you know how your distance setting is set? If it set at the longest distance it would be even more likely to have slowed your vehicle to keep that gap. To be honest on the M25 that I use on a regular basis, the 1 bar distance is too long and you get constantly slowed with vehicles moving into an inviting gap. Even thou most would say, to be safe you are actually already too close.
But obviously any vehicle traveling behind you would be at fault for not having left enough distance behind you to be able to stop, something may have fallen from that vehicle causing you to brake, the slowing would have been indicated by your brake lights.
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There is no radar sensor, it is purely done by the forward facing camera and as you had steered to change lane, for a moment you would have been heading toward the vehicle is the adjacent lane. Do you know how your distance setting is set? If it set at the longest distance it would be even more likely to have slowed your vehicle to keep that gap. To be honest on the M25 that I use on a regular basis, the 1 bar distance is too long and you get constantly slowed with vehicles moving into an inviting gap. Even thou most would say, to be safe you are actually already too close.
But obviously any vehicle traveling behind you would be at fault for not having left enough distance behind you to be able to stop, something may have fallen from that vehicle causing you to brake, the slowing would have been indicated by your brake lights.
Yes, I understand that a following car should be far enough away to be able to brake but you know how common tailgating is and to be fair, they would not be exlecting me to brake hard after overtaking them.
My angle of return to the middle lane was very slight ; I'm not a driver who swerves in and out of lanes.
I also wondered about shortening the ACC distance but someone else here said it still can happen.
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I drove 15k miles in the year before I bought my Jazz using ACC in a Volvo with no issues at all.
The Jazz system isn’t very good unfortunately- it’s not a case of reading the manual.
The Volvo system was radar based, so it looks like the camera system in the Jazz can’t compare to having a radar sensor on the front of the car. (The new Yaris hybrid has both a camera and a radar sensor and is a direct competitor at a similar price.)
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I drove 15k miles in the year before I bought my Jazz using ACC in a Volvo with no issues at all.
The Jazz system isn’t very good unfortunately- it’s not a case of reading the manual.
The Volvo system was radar based, so it looks like the camera system in the Jazz can’t compare to having a radar sensor on the front of the car. (The new Yaris hybrid has both a camera and a radar sensor and is a direct competitor at a similar price.)
My 2016 Toyota RAV4 uses several cameras and radar. The ACC is perfect and the lane keeping nudge is fine too, it is the gentlest of nudges and turns off with one press of a simple physical button.
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Much as I like my Jazz, the ACC is definitely inferior to my previous car (Golf) with its radar based system. I haven’t experienced any sudden decelerations but even on a clear road the system seems to “hunt”, i.e. you can feel power being applied then released then power again. The Golf was much smoother.
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Probably a silly question but do you have the option of operating the cruise control as a simple cruise control where the driver sets the speed and only the driver can adjust the speed or disconnect it. i.e a manual rather than automatic system. I use the manual system on my current car all the time in towns, rural roads and motorways and have never missed having the car think for me! I am the driver after all and am responsible for the speed, direction and safety of the vehicle. I can’t see a court smiling kindly on you if your defence was that “it wasn’t me m'lord the car was in control" !!
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Probably a silly question but do you have the option of operating the cruise control as a simple cruise control where the driver sets the speed and only the driver can adjust the speed or disconnect it.
No, but you can drive the car on the limiter that way. It does need you to press the accelerator about half way, though.
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Much as I like my Jazz, the ACC is definitely inferior to my previous car (Golf) with its radar based system. I haven’t experienced any sudden decelerations but even on a clear road the system seems to “hunt”, i.e. you can feel power being applied then released then power again. The Golf was much smoother.
I've noticed similar, you can feel it speed up and slow down. My Civic was smoother as well.
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Probably a silly question but do you have the option of operating the cruise control as a simple cruise control where the driver sets the speed and only the driver can adjust the speed or disconnect it. i.e a manual rather than automatic system. I use the manual system on my current car all the time in towns, rural roads and motorways and have never missed having the car think for me! I am the driver after all and am responsible for the speed, direction and safety of the vehicle. I can’t see a court smiling kindly on you if your defence was that “it wasn’t me m'lord the car was in control" !!
Unfortunately not, that would be my option as well.
However, I've driven a few times in the M4 average speed zone using ACC, so I don't accidentally speed up, and I've only had one 'incident' when I passed through a centre lane owners club lorry to overtake. I've never had any issues when I've been in lane 2 overtaking lane 1 vehicles.
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Probably a silly question but do you have the option of operating the cruise control as a simple cruise control where the driver sets the speed and only the driver can adjust the speed or disconnect it. i.e a manual rather than automatic system. I use the manual system on my current car all the time in towns, rural roads and motorways and have never missed having the car think for me! I am the driver after all and am responsible for the speed, direction and safety of the vehicle. I can’t see a court smiling kindly on you if your defence was that “it wasn’t me m'lord the car was in control" !!
In my last car you could easily switch between normal cruise control and ACC but it’s not an option on the Jazz
Actually it might be a defence if someone isn’t expecting the computer controlled steering ‘assist’ and if it drives you head on into oncoming traffic on a narrow country road!
These systems are on most new cars (Dacia has said they’re not interested in adding stuff just to get points towards a safety rating though) so I expect we’ll see adverts for lawyers soon.
Volvo has said that if the car crashes with their ‘self-driving’ active, then it’s the cars fault:
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volvo/93595/volvo-to-accept-liability-if-autonomous-car-tech-fails
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LKAS.?????
Lane keep assist system
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... I've never had any issues when I've been in lane 2 overtaking lane 1 vehicles.
I had a chance to play with ACC yesterday on a motorway, including long sections of speed controlled road works. The ACC behaved as it should, including while passing slower traffic. I have to say though, my right foot was hovering above the accelerator pedal while I was using it so I was ready for unexpected braking. Could it be that the software has been 'tweaked'?
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I don't know.
I've used it enough times now to know it's not for me so LIM it is in Specs zones, LIM works well.
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If traffic is light enough I will use ACC, even through protracted roadworks, taking advantages of its features. (under my overall control) If I think the applicable speed limit is too high for the current circumstances ,such as poor weather or increased traffic I'd probably switch ACC off, or at least set a lower speed.
LIM is useful when ACC is not appropriate but you have to maintain your speed manually. Personally I dislike the stifling sensation on the accelerator when you hit the limit. I usually dial in a couple of extra mph, but drive to the actual limit manually. That way the limiter only intervenes if I am speeding.
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I find ACC and LKAS work well for me, although ACC is a bit sharp on acceleration and braking, even in Eco mode.
However I only use these features selectively depending on conditions. Like His Lordship The Magnificent Voltermore, I use on motorways only.
if conditions are busy, I pull over to truck speed and continue to use ACC and LKAS. What I cant tolerate is RDMS. its just not been properly developed as far as im concerned. ::)