Service cheats.

[guest3185]

Hi...just joined and this is my 1st post.
Got a Black 2007 1.4  SE from new.

First of all can someone explain the Jazz GE and GD I keep seeing on here.......

Anyway my reason for posting is that when I put the car in for the 1st year service I got stung for 2 new (front) tyres,brakes and discs.
Total bill was in excess of £950 and I was sold Honda as a reliable cheap to run car !!!
I admit I could have had the tyres from somewhere else but took the word of the experts with the rest.
I contested the need for the changes but they said they were necessary and over time I have raised the question again and been fobbed off by dealers and honda alike.
Has anyone else had to have brakes and discs replaced after such a short time ?
The car is now 5 years old and is still running on the parts that were replaced in 2008 so really they should not have been changed at all.
Surely if they were worn out they should have been changed for free as they must have been below standard.
Thanks
Keith

[JazzyB]

The GE and GD relate to the model jazz.

The GE is the latest model out i.e 2009 onwards

The GD is the old model 2002-2008

Can you tell us the mileage so then I can give you more of an answer.

[guest3185]

Thanks jazzyB for replying.......


O.K. just sorted out the paperwork for this and it seems I have a lot of the details wrong.

It was the 1st big service at 2years (virtually to the day) and 26355 miles.
And also it was brakes all round ...2 tyres and 2 discs. + the full service ..total £921.46.

Sorry I got the details wrong but it's still remarkable as I have never ever had to have discs  changed and I have had older and cheaper cars in the past.
Also if anything my driving is more even than it used to be.

Everytime I book in for services and MOT's I am literally shaking when I contact them to see how it's gone.
Thanks
Keith

[JazzyB]

With brakes its a bit like saying 'how's long a piece of string?' No two people drive the same. Some people may only get just over 10k out of the brakes whereas others may get over 40k.

Also the pad materials these days are a lot harder and tend to wear brake discs a lot more.

[culzean]

There are two types of disc  brake pads commonly used -
 
Abrasive - where pad is hard / abrasive and disc is softer, (Honda use these on Jazz) - disc wears quite quickly but should last at least 60K with normal driving. 
and
Adhesive - where softer pad puts a uniform layer on the disc, the pad wears out more quickly than disc.

It is important that the disc and pad materials are matched up - best way is to buy Honda OEM parts.

I recently bought some third party (ADL Blueprint - good quality but not OEM) discs and pads for my GD Jazz - brakes were juddery and I noticed a layer of some sort on the disc and cleaned it off - brakes better for a couple of days and then juddery again (discs and pads were designed to be Adhesive type, that is why there was a layer on the disc). Turned out one of the discs was warped or badly machined.  Bought genuine Honda parts (should have done in the first place) and brakes were wonderful again.

[DV]

I`ve changed my front brake set (disks and pads, £67.54) around 40k miles (Oct. 2009), now 95k miles in the clock and still going strong, ~30k mainly driven on the motorway, 25k city driving. The pads ~60% worn.
So it really depends on the driving style.

[chrisc]

I notice on the Jazz there is absolutely no brake dust on the wheels, whereas on the wife's BMW I have to clean them every week with a brush and car-wash liquid.

[guest3185]

Thanks.........

So are we saying that when the car was new they fitted discs/brakes that wear quickly and then fitted ones that now wear slower....as I managed to do 26000 on the 1st set and they were bad enough to need changing and have done another 37000 and they do not.
I have driven the same with both and as I said before have always driven the same and it's only a Honda set that have needed changing.
I had an escort in the 90's and did over 90000 and no sign of disc wear.

Keith

[guest2898]

I`ve changed my front brake set (disks and pads, £67.54) around 40k miles (Oct. 2009), now 95k miles in the clock and still going strong, ~30k mainly driven on the motorway, 25k city driving. The pads ~60% worn.
So it really depends on the driving style.

True.. the wifes 02 jazz only had the front discs changed at 100k (original set)

[guest1521]

"I had an escort in the 90's and did over 90000 and no sign of disc wear." Since non-asbestos brake pads were legislated mandatory early 2005 (I think), the new harder material substitute for asbestos puts more wear on the discs. And perhaps disc materials have changed, too. Brake pads and discs are expensive items these days, that's for sure.

To entertain myself while driving a low-powered car, for reasons of brake life, mechanical empathy and fuel economy I try to drive my Jazz as a 'momentum' car with as little braking as possible. The idea being to, as far as possible, keep a steady speed while at least keeping up with traffic flow. Requires lots of observation and anticipation. Sad, I know. If my rear discs rust and pit it'll serve me right!

[caseyjones]

To entertain myself while driving a low-powered car, for reasons of brake life, mechanical empathy and fuel economy I try to drive my Jazz as a 'momentum' car with as little braking as possible. The idea being to, as far as possible, keep a steady speed while at least keeping up with traffic flow. Requires lots of observation and anticipation. Sad, I know. If my rear discs rust and pit it'll serve me right!

Bravo!! I love all of that! Not sad at all! A car is a means of getting safely, smoothly and economically from A to B. It is not a means of self-expression. If you want to express yourself, write poetry. There is great pleasure and satisfaction to be gained from driving in the manner you describe - using anticipation, intelligence and the terrain to slow the car down, rather than driving on the brakes all the time. As a rule of thumb, if I have to touch the brakes above 40 mph (other than for an emergency or something impossible to anticipate) I get very cross with myself.

[guest907]

I notice on the Jazz there is absolutely no brake dust on the wheels, whereas on the wife's BMW I have to clean them every week with a brush and car-wash liquid.

Are you pressing the brake...it's the middle pedal! All my Jazz's have had lots of brake dust and I'm easy on brakes, front pads 40K or so...not replaced rears yet...got rid of the car before that.

[guest3170]

To entertain myself while driving a low-powered car, for reasons of brake life, mechanical empathy and fuel economy I try to drive my Jazz as a 'momentum' car with as little braking as possible. The idea being to, as far as possible, keep a steady speed while at least keeping up with traffic flow. Requires lots of observation and anticipation. Sad, I know. If my rear discs rust and pit it'll serve me right!

Bravo!! I love all of that! Not sad at all! A car is a means of getting safely, smoothly and economically from A to B. It is not a means of self-expression. If you want to express yourself, write poetry. There is great pleasure and satisfaction to be gained from driving in the manner you describe - using anticipation, intelligence and the terrain to slow the car down, rather than driving on the brakes all the time. As a rule of thumb, if I have to touch the brakes above 40 mph (other than for an emergency or something impossible to anticipate) I get very cross with myself.

I did precisely this with my old Civic for a while. And yep, failed inspection due to corroded rear brake disks

[caseyjones]

I did precisely this with my old Civic for a while. And yep, failed inspection due to corroded rear brake disks

You seem to be implying that driving in the manner that I and IvyTek recommend leads to corroded rear brake discs. I don't accept that at all.

Even if you drive our way you have to use the brakes sometimes, and that is more than enough to polish off any incipient rust from the discs. Even if you don't use the brakes at all, there is naturally enough light contact between the pads and the disc to keep them pretty clean. The most likely cause of significant corrosion of the discs is not driving the car for long periods, especially in a damp or otherwise corrosive atmosphere. Another possibility might be sticking callipers, leading to one or more of the pads not making proper contact with the disc. Of course, a third possibility is a hypercritical MOT inspector, the cure for which is obvious.

I have been driving in the way I described for over 40 years and have never had the slightest problem with disc corrosion. The idea that one should have to overuse the brakes and drive insensitively in order to prevent disc corrosion is plainly untrue, and together with other similar myths, tends to discourage thoughtful and conscientious driving, which in my humble view is a bad thing.

End of sermon.....

[guest3170]

Not suggesting it's the only cause, and in my case your 3rd option (a picky inspector) was a factor also, but I do think it increases the levels of corrosion all other things being equal.

Anyway, I'm in complete agreement regarding the importance of thoughtful driving. And I never did learn my lesson. Being sad enough to gather data on these sorts of things I can say that in the last 4 years of ownership my CTR returned 7.3l/100km on average. Best was 6.3. Official figure was 8.2. So I'm by no means a brake stomper