Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: guest6586 on April 04, 2017, 06:21:28 AM
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It seems that there is kind of design flaw at least mk2 Jazz/Fit. And maybe thet mk3 suffers from same flaw. The begining of the rear wheel archs, just front of the rear wheel, has some odd slot where all stones, sand, tar...etc can gather up and start to rust the whole arch.
Has anybody done any development how to block that spot?
And why the heck there is no wheel well lining at the back? Is there any aftermarket linings out there?
Few photos will help to know what I mean.
This is from mk2. The arrow points directly to the flaw.
(http://i.imgur.com/5UtsH1bs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/5UtsH1b.jpg)
This is from mk3, it's not the same, but similar. And potential risk also.
(http://i.imgur.com/rYOWMnGs.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/rYOWMnG.jpg)
This is also from mk3.
(http://i.imgur.com/Amx4dH1s.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/Amx4dH1.jpg)
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I hose out the rear wheel arches whenever I wash the car...No signs of rust in 5 years)
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I assume you don't have any snow or temperature under zero :) We have that in scandinavia and it is just impossible to hose during winter when it can be -20 celcius :D
Ideal is to have whole wheel arch covered with that rubberized mass (tectyl eg) and then have plastic wheel liners, like in front. It would also reduce sound which would be very welcome...
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I remember my father using this on his Volvo 340 years ago.
Seemed to work well..
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hammerite-5092953-Underbody-Seal-2-5Ltr/dp/B002HMOIE8 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hammerite-5092953-Underbody-Seal-2-5Ltr/dp/B002HMOIE8)
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It may just be very similar than this: https://www.stokker.com/pohjakaitse-tectyl-bodysafe-varvipurk-1l-tectyl/303044635 (https://www.stokker.com/pohjakaitse-tectyl-bodysafe-varvipurk-1l-tectyl/303044635)
Well this is under 6€ 1l bucket. Cheap as soap. https://www.karkkainen.com/verkkokauppa/tectyl-1l-siveltava-alustamssa (https://www.karkkainen.com/verkkokauppa/tectyl-1l-siveltava-alustamssa)
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Waxoil offers good protection, as it soaks into all the parts you cant see between welded seam's of the panels. They did a test with rust profers, and anything that goes hard can also chip, and let the water behind. A problem with extreme low temps in winter is the use of salt to clear the ice from roads and offer some traction. but salt is very corrosive.
The good thing with waxoil is the oil drys away leaving a nice coating of wax, which dosnt chip away like hard underseals do, and in its liquid form when applied it runs to all the little places where thick heavy underseals cant get to.
http://www.autosessive.com/products/102826/carplan-tetroseal-easy-sprayer?fo_c=1195&fo_k=83fa1b8e392979dd2f34c5f4bc9ef570&fo_s=gplauk&gclid=CNT2npuoi9MCFcsp0wodkxgMNg (http://www.autosessive.com/products/102826/carplan-tetroseal-easy-sprayer?fo_c=1195&fo_k=83fa1b8e392979dd2f34c5f4bc9ef570&fo_s=gplauk&gclid=CNT2npuoi9MCFcsp0wodkxgMNg)
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I am pretty sure in our Jazz there's wheel arch lining at the back.
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Something like this on a Mk1 / GD, liner plus lower trim although mud still builds up behind the fold.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2it4x0j.jpg)
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TG
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I spotted that potential rust trap. As I was washing my brand new Jazz, for the first time.....
The following day, when all was completely dried out. I thoroughly soaked the area, with Waxoyl. ;)
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I have to snap a photo of our 2011. I just changed winter to summer tyres and had a good look at the arches. There's a little plastic lining at the back of the rear wheel arch. Nothing at the front. As we also use small stonea/chips and sand to get more friction during winter, it's basicly sand blasting the wheel arch drugin winter. Combine that with salt and the mixture is ready.
(http://images.cdn.yle.fi/image/upload//w_1198,h_674,q_70/13-3-8657600.jpg)
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I noticed some rust in the same place on the rear wheel arch of the 2011 Jazz Mk2 that I've just purchased. As the weather is so wet at the moment I'll just wash it with the hosepipe each week then soak it in WD40. When the weather is better (probably in Spring) I'll treat it with Waxoil and maybe stonechip spray.
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Your correct in getting the debris away at regular intervals. Once spring arrives & dries out this tricky area then apply your choice of rust prevention . Enjoy your Jazz.
Most cars have 7 year life , but why worry I still have my 30 yr old Subaru.
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Something like this on a Mk1 / GD, liner plus lower trim although mud still builds up behind the fold.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2it4x0j.jpg)
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TG
Yes. This is something I have been meaning to do. Is it as straightforward as it looks to unscrew and remove the plastic liner and then refit or is it one of these jobs with a hidden catch?
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Most cars have 7 year life ,
Most cars go 15 years without rust on bodywork, and certainly in any important ( structural ) areas in normal UK inland conditions. This may be reduced in very humid salty areas on the coast. In winter if salt has been spread on roads a wash underneath with a garden hose is a good thing, I would not be using a pressure washer as if you get it too close it could damage underseal.
Attached is a PDF from a vehicle corrosion treatment company, they seem to favor Waxoyl but often dilute it with white spirit to penetrate better, and say waxoyl seems to disperse moisture better. They did some tests on bare steel with brine. The guy is a bit scathing about those rust converters as he says they always leave untreated rust under the treated layer.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Our 2003 CRV was the same and I had to hose out the debris. It did need some welding to the sill area in 2019, it was in an area under the plastic trim which didn't fit the same afterwards.
I note it passed the mot without issue in August and is still taxed.
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Thank you for the PDF culzean, I was interested to see the tests on the rust converters having used them on previous cars. As rust has started under the wheel arch I'm going to try using WD40 which I'm hoping will penetrate down to the good metal then spray over with waxoyl. I've used the waxoyl aerosol cans and goes on well if it's first warmed up in a bowl of hot water.
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Dinitrol far better than Waxoyl. Waxoyl abrades easily.
I would not treat car under 15C ambient - cold metal will stop flow of sealant.
And car will be damp.
Sealing damp into seams is not good.
Warm dry day with dry car - after thorough washdown underneath and time left to dry.
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This is the star for creeping into small spaces and displacing moisture, many bikers coat almost their whole bike before winter ( aluminium forks, engine casings etc really suffer when exposed to road salt) and wash it off come summer to leave a clean bike underneath. Can also be safely used on rubber and plastic and electrical connections. It has active corrosion inhibitors in it. Have used it under our cars on brake pipes and unions, as well as on nuts on track rod ends, anti-roll bars etc ) to stop threads corroding up. It worked as well, when I had to change a couple of track-rod ends ( rubber gaiter had split ) the nuts came off no problem, no sign at all of thread corrosion.
http://www.acf-50.co.uk/acf-50.htm
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Having own 3 previous jazzes, and now owning a Japanese imported ‘fit’ I know all about the rust problem. I live in Scotland where the roads are salted 6 months a year. I coated my last jazz (mk1) with waxoyl but I didn’t remove the rear arch liner first. It rotted out under the rear sill end behind the liner. When I bought my mk2 fit I noticed that it did not have a full arch liner. I removed the small one at the front of the arch and the rear one, and sprayed Dinitrol right round the arch. The whole underside has been sprayed including all the suspension, the engine bay and front arches all with Dinitrol. After the winter I will redo any areas where is worn off. The undercoating on all Honda Jazz/fit is minimal and very poor compared to other manufacturers. The Japanese cars are no worse, as I’ve compared them side by side. They all need a coating. Without it in Scotland they will rot through in 13 years no problem. A particular bad area is the area around the petrol filler pipe. It’s completely exposed to the salt. I cleaned it all out and sprayed all round the filler. Inevitably salt will build up round it so it will need hosed out every spring when I switch the wheels back to summer tyres. Worth the hassle to avoid the rust.
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Photo of the rust that I found this summer. And photos of the extensive rustproofing of my new imported Fit.
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Thanks for the advice, I've washed off and sprayed WD40 on the rusting area under the rear wheel arch as an interim measure and ordered a can of ACF-50 from Amazon. Will have a more thorough check when the weather gets better next year
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Did notice that ledge when fitting mud flaps last month and wondered if it could be a problem.
Reading the link about ACF-50 it looks as if it needs to be reapplied annually. Probably O.K. if there is already rust but personally I would prefer to only have to do it once.
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I would treat any rust with hydrate 80, then coat with dinitrol. Dinitrol will only come off areas exposed to regular pounding like the rear wheel arches. Other areas should last years.
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I do use ACF50 on some things, it's very good used as intended, but not ideal for car bodywork, it doesn't last in exposed places.
For car bodywork/underside I prefer Bilt Hamber UC or UB or S50
https://bilthamber.com/product-category/anti-corrosion/
I recently got a 10yr old Yaris which has a bit of "frilly edges" underneath. Treated them with Hydrate 80, then Electrox (very high zinc content, a 1 Lt tin weighs 3kg!!!), a coat of silver grey stonechip where appropriate, then finally UB/S50
............. alternatively you can get a life! ;D
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I do use ACF50 on some things, it's very good used as intended, but not ideal for car bodywork, it doesn't last in exposed places.
For car bodywork/underside I prefer Bilt Hamber UC or UB or S50
https://bilthamber.com/product-category/anti-corrosion/
I recently got a 10yr old Yaris which has a bit of "frilly edges" underneath. Treated them with Hydrate 80, then Electrox (very high zinc content, a 1 Lt tin weighs 3kg!!!), a coat of silver grey stonechip where appropriate, then finally UB/S50
............. alternatively you can get a life! ;D
You sound perfectly sane to me. After I coated the underneath of the car, I undid the original exhaust bolts including the cat nuts, and copper greased them before refitting. I know from previous experiences that I would regret not doing it ;D
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I've a lot to learn as always :D but great advice on the Bilthamber products. Now just wondering what lurks behind those plastic inner wheel arch protectors and how easy they are to remove.
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I've a lot to learn as always :D but great advice on the Bilthamber products. Now just wondering what lurks behind those plastic inner wheel arch protectors and how easy they are to remove.
I removed the rear bumper and rear mudguards this year. No sign of rust.
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I would treat any rust with hydrate 80, then coat with dinitrol. Dinitrol will only come off areas exposed to regular pounding like the rear wheel arches. Other areas should last years.
You didn't specify which Dinitrol, but I assume you mean Dinitrol ML. There is a product called Dinitrol Metallic, which is intended to spray on top of ML for exposed areas.
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I would treat any rust with hydrate 80, then coat with dinitrol. Dinitrol will only come off areas exposed to regular pounding like the rear wheel arches. Other areas should last years.
You didn't specify which Dinitrol, but I assume you mean Dinitrol ML. There is a product called Dinitrol Metallic, which is intended to spray on top of ML for exposed areas.
No, I use this on the underside
https://www.dinitroldirect.com/product/dinitrol-4941-car-underbody-protection-oem/
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That one protects paint from water spray and other mechanical threats as a top layer. It does not help to prevent any existing corrosion beneath it. I would strongly suggest something oily, high-penetration and water repellent agent such as Dinitrol ML or bare linseed oil under the underbody protection.
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That one protects paint from water spray and other mechanical threats as a top layer. It does not help to prevent any existing corrosion beneath it. I would strongly suggest something oily, high-penetration and water repellent agent such as Dinitrol ML or bare linseed oil under the underbody protection.
Each to there own. My car has no existing corrosion, which is why I bought it. Personally, if I had a corrosion issue, I would treat it with hydrate 80 first before painting and then covering with the black coating. The black coating is harder wearing and lasts longer. I’ve been using these products for 27 years, so I’m content with my approach. But if you prefer to use ML then fair enough.
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I'm not trying to argue or tell anyone's method is wrong. And I tried to say that Dinitrol 4941 is a good hard wearing top layer. I was just presenting alternative solutions for fixing rust spots based on my experiences from about the same time you mentioned. I have had difficulties to remove all existing rust so carefully that it would be good with just paint and hard black protection on underbody areas. But I admit I haven't tried hydrate 80,
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I'm not trying to argue or tell anyone's method is wrong. And I tried to say that Dinitrol 4941 is a good hard wearing top layer. I was just presenting alternative solutions for fixing rust spots based on my experiences from about the same time you mentioned. I have had difficulties to remove all existing rust so carefully that it would be good with just paint and hard black protection on underbody areas. But I admit I haven't tried hydrate 80,
Dinitrol 4941 is what we used on our 2003 Yaris. It works very well over 10 years or so since applied.
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I'm not trying to argue or tell anyone's method is wrong. And I tried to say that Dinitrol 4941 is a good hard wearing top layer. I was just presenting alternative solutions for fixing rust spots based on my experiences from about the same time you mentioned. I have had difficulties to remove all existing rust so carefully that it would be good with just paint and hard black protection on underbody areas. But I admit I haven't tried hydrate 80,
Dinitrol 4941 is what we used on our 2003 Yaris. It works very well over 10 years or so since applied.
Did you have some rust issues before that? There is big difference in protecting intact surfaces or surfaces where there has already been some corrosion.
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I applied on surface rust - after wire brushing and treating with a rust proofer . And on painted surfaces where the paint had worn but the galvanised steel beneath was not rusty.
I agree: applying on untreated rusty panels is a waster of time
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I applied on surface rust - after wire brushing and treating with a rust proofer . And on painted surfaces where the paint had worn but the galvanised steel beneath was not rusty.
I agree: applying on untreated rusty panels is a waster of time
I similarly agree. Any wax based under seal is pointless over rust. It just flakes off. Hydrate 80 is an excellent rust converter and I’ve had great results with it. I’ve tried various ones over the years but this one has worked best.
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Just joined the forum after buying 2012 Jazz with 12k miles, from south coast of England in mint condition.
As I’m in Fife, l’m keen to ward off rust starting.
How easy is it to DIY treat ?
Are the companies others have used?
Thanks
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Just joined the forum after buying 2012 Jazz with 12k miles, from south coast of England in mint condition.
As I’m in Fife, l’m keen to ward off rust starting.
How easy is it to DIY treat ?
Are the companies others have used?
Thanks
If you can jack up a car, secure it safely, wash a car and paint: it's a DIY job
As you will be near the sea in Fife:
1. wash out all wheel arches/sills to remove all mud and salt
2. Leave to dry.
3. Treat any rusty patches by wire brushing, treat with rust preventer.. and then a Rustproofer/sealant (I use Dinitrol 4941)
Vulnerable points: rear wheel arches, rear floor around suspension mounting points, sills in front of rear wheel arches.
Repeat every 2-3 years.
My 10 year old Jazz has been treated like that and looks as new.
I also spray exhaust with heat proof VHT exhaust paint.
Looks like new
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Really helpful Madasafish - thanks!