Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Jazzik on January 26, 2022, 10:17:12 AM
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As a Dutchman I am happy that we can teach you Brits (55 years later...) something... ;D
British motorist must open the door with a safer 'Dutch reach'
Motorists in the United Kingdom are required to apply the so-called 'Dutch reach' when opening car doors from Saturday, BBC News reported on Wednesday. Anyone who refuses to open their car door with the hand furthest from it risks a fine of £1,000 (about €1,200).
The rule will be included in the Highway Code with rules for road users on Saturday. It is not known whether the rule also applies to car passengers.
The introduction of the Dutch reach has been going on for years. This grip makes it easier for motorists to get out of the car to look over their shoulders to see whether other road users, such as cyclists, are aproaching.
The British now enacting the rule has been applauded by activist Jeff Boulton. He lost his son in a road accident in 2016. "Like most people, we knew nothing about the Dutch reach until Sam was killed," he said, according to BBC News. "If we had changed the rules 55 years ago when the Dutch came up with this, Sam would still be alive."
Cycling UK is also happy with the amendment of the traffic regulations. The cyclists' organization says that although the British are not used to the Dutch reach, the method is easy to learn and can save lives.
Source: https://www.nu.nl/buitenland/6180319/britse-automobilist-moet-deur-gaan-openen-met-veiligere-nederlandse-greep.html?redirect=1
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Whether in a car, on a motorbike or when I used to cycle I always give parked cars the maximum space I can when passing, on a bike or motorbike you can give them the greatest distance, and in a car although you often cannot give them as much room, if they do open the door in front of my car it will get ripped off ( and maybe their arm as well ) and dent front of my car - silly burgers should be more careful, after all they have a door mirror on that side....... As for Sam, he could have died next day by being hit by a bus...
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Having seen someone nearly killed as a result of a door being opened in front of them, I always check over my shoulder before opening my door. Unfortunately, the twist put on my back by a Dutch reach means I can't do that specific action.
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Hi
I watched that bbc part and it did not state Dutch reach was a legal requirement. It only adviced it might be a better option
We live on a very steep hill and cars regularly park on pavements, including police cars. Cyclist go faster then cars when traveling down the hill and most do not have lights…
Many thanks
John
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I watched that bbc part and it did not state Dutch reach was a legal requirement.
It is not a legal requirement and you cannot be fined for not doing it. The wording says 'where it is possible to do so'. Anyone not doing it would be subject to consideration like any other non compulsory guidance.
I have actually read the changes and they are perfectly sensible. I have no issue with them. There are as many new instructions for cyclists as there are for drivers and motorbike riders. Will be interesting to see if cyclists will suddenly start obeying traffic lights.
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I watched that bbc part and it did not state Dutch reach was a legal requirement.
It is not a legal requirement and you cannot be fined for not doing it.
Well, sort of. Using the specific Dutch Reach technique may not be legally enforceable, but the underlying law (Rule 239 of Highway Code) is that "you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic", which is punishable by a fine if you get it wrong. The Dutch Reach is simply a way of helping you to get it right and if you ignore that recommended technique then you'll be on a sticky wicket. And BTW, it applies to passengers as well as drivers, so we must educate our passengers as well ... remember the filmed incident when Chris Grayling (then Transport Secretary) doored a cyclist who was passing on the nearside of his stationary car?
PS As this applies to cars other than the Mk4 Jazz, wouldn't it be better here:
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=14101.0
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PS As this applies to cars other than the Mk4 Jazz, wouldn't it be better here:
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=14101.0
You are absolutely right! I should have looked over my shoulder! (https://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/midi/konfus/a042.gif)
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Well, sort of.
I don't think we are disagreeing on the principle, but you have quoted only part of my statement, so I need to counter your 'sort of' comment. There is no 'sort of' about it. If the Dutch Reach was legally enforceable, the wording would say 'You MUST'. I'm only being picky because I am physically incapable of a Dutch Reach. In principle, I agree with the changes and certainly agree with checking behind, always.
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I personally see nothing new in these new guides in the highway code.
when I was taught al of these things were part of the general attitude to be taken and curtesy to other road users and pedestrians.
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I personally see nothing new in these new guides in the highway code.
when I was taught al of these things were part of the general attitude to be taken and curtesy to other road users and pedestrians.
I agree.
When was it ever true that drivers were allowed to knock a road crossing pedestrian for six because motor vehicles have 'right of way'?
Giving the matter a second thunk; the changes in the HC are probably more about legal/insurance liability than purely safety. People moan about 'Health and Safety' rules. Those rules are all about allocating legal responsibility following an accident or incident: 'He was told he shouldn't speed', when in truth his workload meant he had to speed to keep his job.
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when I was taught al of these things were part of the general attitude to be taken and courtesy to other road users and pedestrians.
That was in the days before BMW / Audi became so numerous on our roads ( can add Range Rovers to that list now as well - the first choice for a bell end and his lady).
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Well, sort of.
I don't think we are disagreeing on the principle, but you have quoted only part of my statement, so I need to counter your 'sort of' comment. There is no 'sort of' about it. If the Dutch Reach was legally enforceable, the wording would say 'You MUST'. I'm only being picky because I am physically incapable of a Dutch Reach. In principle, I agree with the changes and certainly agree with checking behind, always.
Agree, unless the Highway code says 'must' the meaning is 'please try to be a good boy and do it'....
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If it saves a cyclist from injury or death, then it's no bad thing.
But unfortunately motorist and concentration don't always go together. An old instructor of mine told me there is no such thing as an 'accident'.
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How do the police or a cyclist prove that you didn't us the 'Dutch Reach' technique if you hit a passing cyclist?
Cyclists are being advised to ride down the middle of the road now, I can see that being popular.
Vic.
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If it saves a cyclist from injury or death, then it's no bad thing.
But unfortunately motorist and concentration don't always go together. An old instructor of mine told me there is no such thing as an 'accident'.
An 'accident' is normally when two bad decisions happen in the same place at the same time.
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Cyclists are being advised to ride down the middle of the road now, I can see that being popular.
Cyclists do that a lot anyway, often 3 abreast..... I had a 'small person' on an electric scooter coming towards me the other day, doggedly sticking to white line in the centre of road...... There were cars parked on either side of road, maybe he was following latest guidelines ?
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If it saves a cyclist from injury or death, then it's no bad thing.
But unfortunately motorist and concentration don't always go together. An old instructor of mine told me there is no such thing as an 'accident'.
An 'accident' is normally when two bad decisions happen in the same place at the same time.
100% agree with that statement.
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How do the police or a cyclist prove that you didn't us the 'Dutch Reach' technique if you hit a passing cyclist?
Cyclists are being advised to ride down the middle of the road now, I can see that being popular.
Vic.
Not quite true. The new guidence (not Law or Rule) states they should ride "in the centre of their lane on quiet roads, in slower-moving traffic and at the approach to junctions or road narrowings". So not on main roads.
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How do the police or a cyclist prove that you didn't us the 'Dutch Reach' technique if you hit a passing cyclist?
Cyclists are being advised to ride down the middle of the road now, I can see that being popular.
Vic.
Not quite true. The new guidence (not Law or Rule) states they should ride "in the centre of their lane on quiet roads, in slower-moving traffic and at the approach to junctions or road narrowings". So not on main roads.
Does anyone take a cycling proficiency course any more ? Surely keeping away from parked vehicles should be on the core training ( as well as being basic common sense ). How about having proper lights on a bike, that should be made a legal requirement, Oh, it already is - somebody needs to tell the cyclists in our area, when I used to travel to and from work I often had 'stealth' cyclists scooting around, impossible to see. I don't often travel in dark in mornings any more, may do in evening - but I bet the same suspects are at it.
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When walking our dog stealth cyclists with no audible warning device fitted expecting us to get out of their way :-[
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Mark my words, the new rule on giving way to pedestrians who look as though they want to cross the road will cause more accidents. :o
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Reference the “Dutch Reach” - don’t drivers use their door mirrors before opening the door? Main problem I would have thought is passengers in the back seats rather than drivers.
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Does anyone take a cycling proficiency course any more?
That's a good point. When I was at school it was practically mandatory to attend a cycling proficiency course. The Government would be far better putting resources into that.
We also had an inter-schools Highway Code competition where teams from each school were pitted against each other, similar to "top of the form", if anyone remembers that.
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There are going to be some cyclists who will now deliberately make life hard for vehicles....... because they can.
Road rage involving cyclists will increase as will false reports from some.
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Does anyone take a cycling proficiency course any more ?
They certainly do around here. I see them in their dayglo tabards, usually a few months before they are due to start at "big school".
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There are going to be some cyclists who will now deliberately make life hard for vehicles....... because they can.
Road rage involving cyclists will increase as will false reports from some.
If anyone does not have a decent dashcam now is the time to get one, it may be your only defence when it is 'your word against theirs' - and we all know that motorists will be well down the pecking order.. Problem with cyclists, escooter riders and pedestrians is that they do not display any ID like vehicles do, they can cause an accident and then just disappear.... So a dashcam with decent definition has now become a must.
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Reference the “Dutch Reach” - don’t drivers use their door mirrors before opening the door? Main problem I would have thought is passengers in the back seats rather than drivers.
On busy roads I always advise rear seat passengers to slide across and exit on the pavement side, mind you if a cyclist or E-Scooter on the pavement hits the door then what !
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Does anyone take a cycling proficiency course any more ?
They certainly do around here. I see them in their dayglo tabards, usually a few months before they are due to start at "big school".
To be honest, I don't think any little-uns would be cycling around in the dark and semi-dark ( except maybe paper boys / girls ) when the Kamikaze stealth cyclists are whizzing around, would seem to be working age idiots... Just wondered if they had ever had a proficiency course, or maybe an IQ test - I hope their IQ is higher than the number of gears on their bike.
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On busy roads I always advise rear seat passengers to slide across and exit on the pavement side, mind you if a cyclist or E-Scooter on the pavement hits the door then what !
As a pedestrian walking on the pavement, I've nearly been hit by passengers opening car doors without looking. The LAW about taking care when opening doors does not discriminate between drivers and passengers, it applies to both.
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Does anyone take a cycling proficiency course any more?
That's a good point. When I was at school it was practically mandatory to attend a cycling proficiency course. The Government would be far better putting resources into that.
They did when I took mine back in 1991. You needed a signature from your parents but that was really seen as just a formality.
I've always looked over my shoulder before opening the door without using the Dutch reach.
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If you do not have a Dashcam already now would be a good time to get one... :o
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When I was learning to ride a bike I was taught to always allow at least a car's door width when passing parked cars. When did this change to "I can now ride close to park cars so as to sue the driver when i get hit".?
Partially tongue in cheek.
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I've no objection to advocating the dutch reach. It points you in the right direction, with no thought required. Whether you extend this to actual thought is another matter.
Some of us have always paid due care, without needing to contort our backs .