Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Other Hondas & General Topics => Off Topic (Non-Honda) => Topic started by: Pine on January 24, 2022, 11:29:48 AM
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An interesting article from Michelin on tyre wear:
https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/michelin-changing-tyres-3mm-unnecessary-costly-harmful-environment/
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An interesting article from Michelin on tyre wear:
https://www.automotiveworld.com/news-releases/michelin-changing-tyres-3mm-unnecessary-costly-harmful-environment/
Seen that before and agree with it, because if some 'do-gooders' have their way the minimum depth will keep increasing. Some cheap tyres are dangerous even from new ( BTW, it is accepted by the industry that a tyre that has stood 5 years in storage can still be sold as 'new' ) - I saw some tests on motorbike tyres that they lost little performance even at 10 years old, they tried new tyres and the old ones back to back at high speed on a racetrack. The cynic in me thinks that if Michelin says their tyres are still OK at 1.6 mm that they are encouraging people to buy their tyres rather than other brands, rather than concern for the environment ? It pays to remember that tyre makers do their own tests and that is what appears on the tyre labels, a bit like kids marking their own homework.
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This is very good statement from Michelin!
I always encourage people to use all tread of the tyre and not to worry about the age of the tyre. Especially regarding summer tyres. Anything else is just waste of money. That's what I've been doing for decades, and found that if there is sufficient tread, modern steel radial tyres are usable up to about 25 years. At some point there will be damage in plies, which makes tyre thumping especially at lower speeds. Then it's time to book an appointment at tyre shop.
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My 2 pence worth.
Avoid buying used tyres online esp from overseas.
Keep to makes you recognise & keep spare to right pressure.
Tyres have improved over the past 49 years, majority of cars I work on are underinflated.
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Tyres are probably the most neglected part of a car, they result in probably the most frequent reason for failures and advisories on MoT tests. They are the item between you and the road, they brake, accelerate and corner
They have a built in depth gauge but personally I would look for new tyres at 2mm.
Vic.
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This is very good statement from Michelin!
I always encourage people to use all tread of the tyre and not to worry about the age of the tyre. Especially regarding summer tyres. Anything else is just waste of money. That's what I've been doing for decades, and found that if there is sufficient tread, modern steel radial tyres are usable up to about 25 years. At some point there will be damage in plies, which makes tyre thumping especially at lower speeds. Then it's time to book an appointment at tyre shop.
Can tyres be modern at 25 years old?
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This is very good statement from Michelin!
I always encourage people to use all tread of the tyre and not to worry about the age of the tyre. Especially regarding summer tyres. Anything else is just waste of money. That's what I've been doing for decades, and found that if there is sufficient tread, modern steel radial tyres are usable up to about 25 years. At some point there will be damage in plies, which makes tyre thumping especially at lower speeds. Then it's time to book an appointment at tyre shop.
Can tyres be modern at 25 years old?
That is of cource a valid question. But in a sense of construction method steel belted radial tyres are modern when compared to bias ply tyres.
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I do keep a regular check on my tyre pressures and tread depth. When I get the first depth reading under 2mm I start looking for new tyres.
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Hmmm, a lot of rather iffy sweeping statements in that article which are based on passing reference to something in the Michelin document but not actually quoting or applying any context. I'd want to read the original document. I feel uneasy about saying things like how many days are dry so using worn tyres which are good in the dry is a perfectly good choice. It's a bit like saying 80mg/100ml of alcohol in blood is the legal limit so it's a perfectly good idea to drink and drive at 75mg/100ml.
When you change your worn tyres is up to you, I'll stick to being cautious.
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This is very good statement from Michelin!
I always encourage people to use all tread of the tyre and not to worry about the age of the tyre. Especially regarding summer tyres. Anything else is just waste of money. That's what I've been doing for decades, and found that if there is sufficient tread, modern steel radial tyres are usable up to about 25 years. At some point there will be damage in plies, which makes tyre thumping especially at lower speeds. Then it's time to book an appointment at tyre shop.
Can tyres be modern at 25 years old?
I also think that tyre compounds will have changed significantly in recent years.
Overall as others have said - it is up to the user to be guided by the law and common sense.
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Of course we cannot know how well current tyre compounds will keep the performance in 25 years until that time has passed. I would assume they are not drastically worse than in 90's tyres.
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I drive on lots of muddy road in the country. And have to go onto verges to escape 4x4s that do not go onto verges as their owners are incapable of doing so. :'(
And we get snow in winter: not always a lot but some.
I certainly would not want tyres in winter with under 3mm of tread.. And other cheapskates find the same in snow... (All the BMW drivers stop using their cars in snow voluntarily or stuck and incapable of movement)
I drive Michelin Cross Climates which look as though they will be good for 50k miles before 3mm> I will change them then.
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I drive on lots of muddy road in the country. And have to go onto verges to escape 4x4s that do not go onto verges as their owners are incapable of doing so. :'(
Shock, :o you mean 4X4 can actually drive where there is no tarmac ? They are not called Chelsea tractors for nothing. We have dedicated winter tyres on steel rims on our cars, alloys take a beating in winter, can give the steels a lick of Hammerite in spring and good as new, also more likely to slide into kerb in winter, and the steel rims cover the brakes a lot better, keeping the crap out, especially the rear brakes.
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Of course we cannot know how well current tyre compounds will keep the performance in 25 years until that time has passed. I would assume they are not drastically worse than in 90's tyres.
I would assume 'modern' tyre compound is much better as in future will also be improved, but maybe further restriction from the green lobby will negate the need for ability to improve.
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I agree that rubber compounds are better now, and actual condition may be more relevant than an arbitrary age. Especially if summer and winter tyres are swopped and spend much of their life stored out of harmful sunlight.
But they may still suffer from microcracking and deterioration , as can the rubber used in tyre valves.
But do I have the skill to spot serious degradation ? I would rather not find I was wrong by a high speed blow out. :o
I think 1.6mm is pushing your luck. Far more likely to aquaplane in the wet. 2mm is better.
I'm skeptical about Michelins claims, albeit lower tread Michelins may still be better than other brands with more tread depth. Sounds like a marketing strategy.
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I agree that rubber compounds are better now, and actual condition may be more relevant than an arbitrary age. Especially if summer and winter tyres are swopped and spend much of their life stored out of harmful sunlight.
But they may still suffer from microcracking and deterioration , as can the rubber used in tyre valves.
But do I have the skill to spot serious degradation ? I would rather not find I was wrong by a high speed blow out. :o
I think 1.6mm is pushing your luck. Far more likely to aquaplane in the wet. 2mm is better.
I'm skeptical about Michelins claims, albeit lower tread Michelins may still be better than other brands with more tread depth. Sounds like a marketing strategy.
Narrower tyre sizes need less tread than wide ones - it is all to do with the distance the water has to travel to escape from under the tyre, the shorter the escape path the less likely tyre is to aquaplane, and on dry roads the less tread on the tyre the better.....
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Narrower tyre sizes need less tread than wide ones - it is all to do with the distance the water has to travel to escape from under the tyre, the shorter the escape path the less likely tyre is to aquaplane, and on dry roads the less tread on the tyre the better.....
Racing slicks! If only our weather was so predictable 8) I have a cunning plan. Variable minimum tread depth based on tyre width ::)
I have read more than once, most recently in a post by Roman, that wet roads significantly increases fuel consumption on the Mk4 .Pushing water away must add a lot of rolling resistance . Probably true of all cars and tyres, but maybe the standard eco tyres don't perform particularly well in this respect. This, and reduced noise, is probably why Honda have stayed with 185 tyre width.
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On the rain thing increasing fuel consumption EV owners of my acquaintance say heavy rain and surface water has a significant (adverse) effect on range.
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Pumping water generally takes a lot of power/energy. When roads are wet the tyres are simply water pumps, the faster you go and the more water on the surface the more power it takes. Hitting a deep puddle will slow a car quite effectively.
In engine development, traditional* dynamometers were simply water pumps in essence, you don't need a very big unit to absorb a coupe of hundred kW. Look at a boat outboard propeller, it's taking all the power of the engine, a 100bhp outboard prop will only be 150-200mm diameter. Water is heavy stuff to shift.
(*Most modern dynos are more commonly eddy current devices, and use water as a coolant).
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But they may still suffer from microcracking and deterioration , as can the rubber used in tyre valves.
But do I have the skill to spot serious degradation ? I would rather not find I was wrong by a high speed blow out. :o
Blow out of a steel radial tubeless passenger car tyres without any clearly visible bulge or side crack is extremely unlikely. They just begin to leak.
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This probably needs changing :
(https://i.imgur.com/L4FWJWE.jpg)