Author Topic: CVT appears to the performing a "heavy" gear change!  (Read 2899 times)

guest5679

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CVT appears to the performing a "heavy" gear change!
« on: July 15, 2016, 08:00:40 PM »
My 2004 Mk1 CVT Jazz has developed a problem within the last week.  Occasionally, as I am driving along, I feel a thud/thump that I think is coming from the CVT.  It feels as if the CVT is performing a “heavy” gear change, although I am perfectly aware that that there are no gears or clutch in the CVT and that the ratios are continuously variable.  The problem occurs at the higher speeds, say 40 mph and above, but that is about the only pattern I’ve been able to observe.

Yesterday, I drove down from York to my home in the Southampton area, a distance of about 240 miles, and the problem occurred only once, even though I had numerous stops on the journey.  So, it is not as though it happens every time I accelerate.

Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this problem?  I am planning to ask my local Honda dealership but I thought I would ask on the forum first.  In case it is relevant, the CVT fluid was last changed in August 2015, but I am not sure when the CVT was last flushed out.

Finally, I should add that my Jazz has done 152,000 miles in 12 years and I have a new car on order which is due to arrive in September.  So I have no long term plans for my Jazz.

guest5679

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Re: CVT appears to the performing a "heavy" gear change!
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2016, 02:47:07 PM »
I’ve had no reply to this query.  Perhaps the general feeling is that, after doing 152,000 miles in 12 years without any significant problem, my Jazz has now had its day?

As I mentioned in my original append, I have a new car on order but this is not due until September.  But, in the meantime, my wife and I are due to take our Jazz to France for two weeks at the end of August.  My primary concern therefore is whether the car is likely to breakdown completely while we are away.  I can cope with a breakdown in the UK, but it would be highly inconvenient if it were to happen while we were on holiday in France even though I have breakdown insurance for Continental Europe.  So, I am trying to assess whether it might be safer to hire a car for the holiday.  Any advice would be welcome.

Two weeks on from my original append, the problem is still occasional and largely unpredictable, but some pattern is emerging.

A correction to my original append is that the problem does occur at speeds lower than 40 mph.  At the lower speeds, the problem feels as if the CVT is changing “gear”.  There is a definite jerk as if the engine momentarily loses power and then starts pulling again.  At the higher speeds, the problem can manifest itself as a pronounced thud/thump from under the bonnet, which is quite frightening really.

The pattern that is emerging is that, when the problem occurs, more often than not, it is when the car has been travelling down an incline, has reached the bottom, and has just started to climb up again.  At this point, my foot is still steady on the accelerator pedal - that is, I have not yet put my foot down to give the car more power to climb.  It is as if the CVT detects that it needs to be in a lower “gear” in order to climb.

I strongly suspect that the problem is similar to that described by chrisdtwyman in the following append:

http://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=3020.msg25846#msg25846

I quote from that append:

“Now the new problem. The Jazz is now exhibiting all the symptoms of the notorious judder problem. It judders a bit when pulling away and more disturbingly occasionally jerks/slips while running.”

It is the “… more disturbingly occasionally jerks/slips while running.” that I am referring to.

Does anyone have any more insight into what might be happening?

As I stated above, my primary concern now is reliability if we take the car to France.  There is no way that I am going to spend any serious money on fixing the car.  Someone ran into the back of the car in France last year and, although the damage is relatively slight, my insurance company deemed the repair to be uneconomical.  Therefore the car is officially a Category C write-off.  So, having received a good proportion of the market value of the car from my insurance company, the car now has only a salvage/scrap value.

guest5589

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Re: CVT appears to the performing a "heavy" gear change!
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2016, 02:59:42 PM »
Dont take my advice too seriously as I don't have any experience with CVTs but I will try and think pragmatically at your dilemma.

150,000 miles is top mileage for any transmission let alone a first gen CVT. Because your new car is coming in a month and this one is probably worth £350-£400 there is no sense in putting a used transmission in for about £400+ fitting.

What I am thinking is, can you get a rental for £400 for your entire trip? if not, then you can use this fund to get the box changed.. Urgh..Infact I would just keep on driving until it actually fails .. if it doesn't breakdown you are over £400 in the positive (theoretically).. if it does breakdown, just push it off the cliff and hire a rental for remaining days.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-Jazz-Auto-Gear-Box-2008-Cvt-7-Speed-Padle-Shift-/291829375895?hash=item43f262e397:g:TgAAAOSwanRXgYvB

guest1372

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Re: CVT appears to the performing a "heavy" gear change!
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2016, 04:13:41 PM »
If it's a holiday then a hire car would provide peace of mind and some comfort, especially as you won't be spending money on this Jazz; I guess it's destined for a local auction 'sold as seen'.  Even with breakdown cover, the time & hassle factor would not be worth it should something happen even though I think that is unlikely.  The classic CVT judder is mostly from a standing start, but this could be a similar slippage at one point in the range although your exact symptom is not one I can remember ever discussed here. 

If the box has not had it's fluid changed within the last few years then it's probably overdue like most older CVT Jazz.  There is a cheap miracle cure Xado ex120 Auto £20 which sounds like bunkem but has been used by forum users to good effect.  Multi-year results are unknown but users have not complained 6 months later that their judder problem has returned.

One of the reasons for keeping my Jazz as long as I have is to justify a deluxe hire car when on holiday - none of that 4 people + luggage in a Punto for me.
--
TG

guest5679

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Re: CVT appears to the performing a "heavy" gear change!
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2016, 09:24:23 PM »
If it's a holiday then a hire car would provide peace of mind and some comfort, ...
Yes, I think that's the way I feel.  Not all hire car companies, especially the cheaper ones, allow you to take their cars abroad.  And those that do add a hefty surcharge to cover the extra admin, Continental breakdown cover, etc..  For the 17 day period that I will need a hire car, it is going to cost me about £600 for an automatic.  But I feel it is probably worth it.  Of course, in hindsight now, if only I had ordered my new car a month or two earlier ...!

The CVT fluid was last changed in August 2015 but I don't know when the CVT was last flushed.

I forgot to mention that I did take the car into my local Honda dealer for investigation but they weren't able to reproduce the problem on a test run, which is not surprising considering how infrequently I experience it.

guest5589

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Re: CVT appears to the performing a "heavy" gear change!
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2016, 09:34:02 PM »
After reading all the horror stories of hire car troubles abroad I would just drive this one over.

Or sell this right now, and use the money + the money you will pay for rental to get another used one which you can sell after coming back.

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