Warned off first generation Jazz

[guest5104]

Hello

I am looking for my next small used car right now. My mother has an 2003 model and is very happy with hers, particularly on reliability and practicality. I was all set for a fun Jazz hunt but then my local garage who is looking about for me warned me off the first generation Jazz because he has seen a few come in with serious and expensive gearbox problems. He runs a very busy garage, and says he hardly sees any Jazzes come in but when they have done they were 2004s with doomed gearboxes.

Having looked on forums I can see he might be talking about the gearbox bearing issue on early Jazzes.  If I look at later ones after 2004, what year was this sorted out?

[culzean]

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/?t=59332

Just out of interest - has your mom (or yourself if you have been in the car) ever noticed a noise in bottom 3 gears ?

There is a problem with GD (2002 to 2008) Jazz gearbox bearings (it is just a bearing on intermediate shaft,  the gears themselves give no problems), My Wifes 53 plate got noise at about 70K, my 53 plate did 110K before I traded it in and never got any noise.  The difference was that I did mainly main road mileage using higher gears and my wife mainly did local miles using lower 3 gears - I do think using gearbox molyslip had a hand in delaying my wifes problem and prevented mine.  You can get gearbox fixed for around £500, and it won't let you down (like a VW box would for instance - the one in my brother in laws Golf pretty much committed suicide and chewed itself up - not due to abuse, due to something coming loose inside that happens quite often) -  but just keeps getting noisier in lower 3 gears.

If your budget can stretch to a GE after 2008 you will get a better sorted car that rides better and has the VTEC engine, but the GD still has a lot going for it.

[guest5104]

Thanks culzean!

I don't think my mum has had any gearbox noise. Early on she had the EGR valve go but just got a reconditioned one on e-bay for £70 and my dad put it in.

She lives out in the sticks so mostly main road driving.

I've seen an ad for a 2004 Jazz in a rural location owned by pensioners from new, only 32k miles total.  I've just walked away from a hardly used, urban, low mileage 1.1 Mitsubishi Colt with mayonnaise in the oil cap. Went with my gut on that one.  Am becoming wary of low mileage runarounds because of the wear that sort of driving can cause. You are right, it must make a difference on the other parts too not just the engine.  Ask the owners where it's been driven?

LOL on the Golf that "chewed itself up".  My 1.2 2002 109k Polo is has a worn cylinder so needs an engine re-build, hence the search. The Polo gearbox is also rattling. It's a nice quiet ride, but I find Mum's Jazz is fine and comfy enough for a long schlep, not like some cheap Lego cars out there.

[guest3735]

got a very late 54 plate.... fsh... 90k on it. no bother as yet.... no noises, nothing mechanical gone seriously wrong (had an alloy go porous). would recommend the jazz to anyone. just my 0.02

[culzean]

I would warn anyone to beware cars that have done very low mileage for their age, because you are correct that it does affect most parts of the car,  most engine wear occurs during first couple of miles after a cold start, once the engine is warmed up nothing much wears (remember the term 'motorway miles' which signifies high mileage but only when the engine was thoroughly warm,  and the lack of wear on steering and brakes etc  and the CAT is kept clean - it takes about 20 miles for the CAT to heat up properly,  constant short trips will gunge up the CAT and EGR and maybe even the fuel injectors, also the exhaust system as a whole never gets hot enough to dry out the acidic condensation from combustion - and it stays in there and rots the steel.)  Constant starting and short runs also takes a toll of battery (which is why taxi batteries don't last long).  Also on modern cars the brake discs quickly form a coating of rust when the car is not used regularly,  this chews up the brake pads,  and calipers rarely seize if the car is used frequently.

I have always believed that molyslip is the best prevention against wear during cold starts,  as it is an extreme pressure boundary lubricant and sticks on the bearings surfaces when the oil is not there, and protects the metal until the oil gets there - it is widely used in industry for extreme lubrication, and modern CV joints are packed with molybdenum grease which explains why they now last the life of the car.).   Also good for your gearbox (but not if it's an automatic).  I would love to use Moly in my motorbike,  but a lot of bikes including mine have a wet clutch bathed in engine oil,  and moly is so persistent and slippery that it makes the clutch slip 

[guest5104]

Someone bought the pensioner's 32k jazz before I could get there this morning.  Although I love the Jazz, maybe I got away with a narrow escape. Turns out it came from Southampton, done urban little trips for 11 years. They were in their 80s, gave up driving and the car may have been sitting there a really long time.

My sister bought a Focus a few years back had been sitting. A switch needed replacing and it was so stuck on even Ford had a job getting it off.  The speedo started affecting the fuel consumption, starting etc. I guess with modern electronics, those parts don't like sitting unused either and they can affect the mechanics of the car?

Will definitely try the molyslip on my own car when I get a new one, thanks for that.  I only do a low mileage but at least I know that is bad.  I've NEVER had mayo in the oil cap but the number of small cars I have gone to see have had it all the colours of the rainbow. What else could I do to pamper the car if it's low mileage?

So 20 miles to warm up minimum? 

Might check out a fleet car auction. Any advice?  What's a safe number of "motorway miles?"

Thanks again. 

[culzean]

Might check out a fleet car auction. Any advice?  What's a safe number of "motorway miles?"

Thanks again. 

Many things do go wrong with a car when it is sitting around, the kindest thing for any car is to use it every day and a good run every week or so. And rev it - Honda engines love to rev and never going above 2000 rpm is no way to drive a Honda.

My first Civic ( a 1996  1.5 Vtec - Rover 400 shape - they shared the same Honda body) was 6 month old with 14.8K on the clock when I bought it (high mileage - probably ex-lease fleet car)- 8 years later I had covered 185K and car never had a spanner on it - nothing replaced except cam belt, battery, exhaust, brake pads and discs and of course tyres.   Still had original clutch, alternator etc.   I would have kept it longer because the engine and general  car were still mint, didn't use a drop of oil between changes,  but the dreaded 'rear wheel arch rot' set in and looked like being expensive to fix,  when I sold that I got my first Jazz a 53 plate 1.4 SE - did 110K in that with no bother as well.   

Don't worry about high mileage with modern cars, and if it has high mileage when you buy it and you don't do many miles then things will even out and in a couple of years the car will be an 'average' mileage car.   My wife just bought a 2012 1.4 Si with all the kit, including cruise control - with 38K on the clock, but she only does about 8K a year, so come 4 years time the car will probably have 54K on the clock so average just over 13K a year.

[guest5104]

OK so in a 10 year old car (what I can afford to buy) 100k would be all right if I only do 5k p/a myself.  And it's got good service history, cam belt, etc. Probably better stop looking at lower mileage cars, hey!

Good also so have few owners maybe, because that means 1 or 2 people have liked it enough to keep it and drive it for many miles.

Sounds like you really like Hondas.  Good that rear wheel arch rot is a thing of the past, I remember Ford Escorts I learned to drive in were bad.

Reckon 04/05 Jazz with 100k might be OK?  I can probably hear the gearbox problem on a test drive you think?

[guest3735]

i was in the fortunate position of being "given" my jazz by my mother, after divorce trouble... i needed a reliable car so i could work etc. hadn't considered hondas before, although i was there when she ordered hers (i chose the colour and negotiated the discount) little knowing it would become mine.... she's had two more since.... and i have to admit, they have a way of getting under your skin. they don't go wrong much; if the main dealer has touched anything it can be considered to have been done properly... and someone has actually thought about how normal people treat their cars.
if the people who designed the magic seats had been given an award, i wouldn't be surprised.... there aren't many small cars that would take the kit for a two week camping holiday for three people (i don't pack light!). alternatively, i have found that you can get two mountain bikes in the back (my next venture)....and as my car is getting on, i am looking at alternatives.... although i will probably end up back at my local honda dealer... GE, new jazz or civic 1.4 are on the cards money permitting....
the only alternative in the real sense of the word is the new skoda fabia estate, for which they will provide an internal bike rack (£180).... but i don't think it will be a patch on the jazz regarding quality and reliability. better to stick with what i know......
on a slightly different topic, i found myself defending hondas honour in a conversation with a BMW owner.... he made for a swift exit when i mentioned all the gear i could get in it, the economy i was getting and how reliable it was..... his beloved BMW hasn't been a bastion of fault free motoring..... but then some people won't be told!

[guest4283]

German cars are all about badge snobbery. However if the stats are anything to go by they seem to be resting on their past laurels! I would take a Honda over a German car anyday. However if I'd been 'warned off 'em' I might take the hint... I wouldn't want the heavies coming round... making me sleep with the fishes !

[guest5104]

German cars are all about badge snobbery. However if the stats are anything to go by they seem to be resting on their past laurels! I would take a Honda over a German car anyday. However if I'd been 'warned off 'em' I might take the hint... I wouldn't want the heavies coming round... making me sleep with the fishes !

Yeah I want a Jazz    Totally agree with Volkswagen resting on their laurels - the Polo is very solid, yes and there is a very nice cup holder. But it needs a new engine. I could keep it to sit in a drink beverages...

[SuperCNJ]

Your garage may be thinking of the manual gearbox bearings wearing out. It was a design fault on the first generation Jazz (GD). The bearing have a tendency to fail usually between 40k-70k miles. Depending on how you drive etc. The bearings are not expensive, but the labour required to replace them is.

I have see reports of many GD Jazz's with this problem and it occurred on our car at 50k miles. Once they have been replaced the Jazz is very reliable. If the car you are buying has not had them replaced, and is around 40k-70k miles, it may be worth considering getting warranty.

Or consider a late 2007 Jazz or the newer GE generation Jazz.

[guest5104]

Hi SuperCNJ

If the car you are buying has not had them replaced, and is around 40k-70k miles, it may be worth considering getting warranty.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by "getting warranty?"  It was a private sale (I didn't buy that one by the way, it was sold on Gumtree in about 16 hours!) 

Do you mean Honda's warranty?  Is that possible on a 2003 or 2004 Jazz?

[SuperCNJ]

Hi SuperCNJ

If the car you are buying has not had them replaced, and is around 40k-70k miles, it may be worth considering getting warranty.

Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by "getting warranty?"  It was a private sale (I didn't buy that one by the way, it was sold on Gumtree in about 16 hours!) 

Do you mean Honda's warranty?  Is that possible on a 2003 or 2004 Jazz?

Yes, Honda's Extended Warranty. You don't have to go with Honda's warranty, there are several third party warranties that are very good.

I have used Warranty Direct for many years when I had my civic and it saved me thousands of pound on repair work.