3 week old Crosstar Rejected

[NoelM]

Changed my 2021 Crosstar three weeks ago for another new 2022/2023 Crosstar. Within two days noticed ticking noise and rattle on start up. Went back to dealers for them to investigate. Service guys and master technician acknowledged the noises.  Kept the car for further investigations.
Given 2022 Jazz ex as loan car. Next morning noticed that the loan car was exactly the same.
Returned to dealers and they said they had reported faults to Honda. They also told me that another customer had reported the same issues on another brand new car and also his loan car.
Had further discussions with master technician who stated that a bulletin had been put on the Honda system reporting issue with eCVT rattling under no load conditions, but the bulletin had subsequently been removed. Also stated the the issue had also been reported on the new HRV.
I was also advised to contact Honda customer services direct which I did.
Customer services were about as useful as a chocolate teapot.
They stated that a report from dealers had no fault found, which was a total lie as I have seen the dealers report.
Car then went back into dealers three more times for reports and investigation. Further reports sent into Honda technical.
Car with engine running and bonnet open sounded like a bag of spanners.
Further conversations with dealer revealed that other customer was in the process of rejecting his car and seven other new and 2022 Jazz had the same issues.
Anyway the final straw was last week when the infotainment system had to be reset to factory settings.
Enough was enough. Dealer agreed to change car but there was no way I was having another Jazz with the possibility of the the same issues. Agreed to change for Civic mk10 sport with just over 1000 miles on the clock ( have had one before ).
Still waiting to see final report from Honda technical.
Must say though that all through this the dealership was absolutely first class with support and understanding

[Karoq]

I have. always had a fairly quiet rattle on my HR-V on startup and under light load when it's charging.
Has happened from day one. I just assumed it was some sort of electrical noise?
I will send this link to My dealer and see what he says.

[Bristol_Crosstar]

Changed my 2021 Crosstar three weeks ago for another new 2022/2023 Crosstar. Within two days noticed ticking noise and rattle on start up. Went back to dealers for them to investigate. Service guys and master technician acknowledged the noises.  Kept the car for further investigations.
Given 2022 Jazz ex as loan car. Next morning noticed that the loan car was exactly the same.
Returned to dealers and they said they had reported faults to Honda. They also told me that another customer had reported the same issues on another brand new car and also his loan car.
Had further discussions with master technician who stated that a bulletin had been put on the Honda system reporting issue with eCVT rattling under no load conditions, but the bulletin had subsequently been removed. Also stated the the issue had also been reported on the new HRV.
I was also advised to contact Honda customer services direct which I did.
Customer services were about as useful as a chocolate teapot.
They stated that a report from dealers had no fault found, which was a total lie as I have seen the dealers report.
Car then went back into dealers three more times for reports and investigation. Further reports sent into Honda technical.
Car with engine running and bonnet open sounded like a bag of spanners.
Further conversations with dealer revealed that other customer was in the process of rejecting his car and seven other new and 2022 Jazz had the same issues.
Anyway the final straw was last week when the infotainment system had to be reset to factory settings.
Enough was enough. Dealer agreed to change car but there was no way I was having another Jazz with the possibility of the the same issues. Agreed to change for Civic mk10 sport with just over 1000 miles on the clock ( have had one before ).
Still waiting to see final report from Honda technical.
Must say though that all through this the dealership was absolutely first class with support and understanding

Bet you wish you'd kept your old one now, doesn't seem to be an issue on the earlier models

[aphybrid]

Well done for persisting, but hope it is just some batch/isolated fault.

[NoelM]

There was nothing wrong with the old one when I changed it. I had issues with the infotainment system and a blocked egr valve (in less than a month from new). The dealer reckons that mapping was changed on the new ones to prevent the issues with egr. It was a lot smoother to drive, quicker, quieter and battery charging was also quicker on 2022/2023 car.
Was not prepared to risk another Jazz knowing how many they have had back plus the reported same issues on the new HRV.
Quite happy to go back to a civic sport having owned one previously, or the previous HRV sport which I also had but none available

[Hicardo]

Sorry to hear about the problems.   . Strange that Honda released updated model without discovering the fault prior to release, especially as there are numerous instances of the issue.   

[NoelM]

Sorry to hear about the problems.   . Strange that Honda released updated model without discovering the fault prior to release, especially as there are numerous instances of the issue.   

I expect when they eventually respond to the dealer they will use the usual excuse “ it’s a characteristic of the vehicle”

[Lord Voltermore]

Have I got this right.  Honda have remapped the 2022/2023 models  so they are smoother to drive  ,quicker, quieter and recharges quicker. All wins surely?    Mapping  (tuning characteristics such as timing, fuel mix etc,and maybe the loading on the recharging generator) is always a compromise on performance,fuel consumption, smooth running etc.  And in this case the compromise may be that it sounds like 'a bag of spanners' on low load tickover  , at least compared to the tickover sound of a 2020/2021 model.  (which are presumably less smooth, slower and noisier on the move ,although I'm more than happy with mine as it is , knowing no better) )

A characteristic of the hybrid is that its often in EV mode and silent when stationary.If they now recharge quicker when the engine is running it may be in totally silent  EV mode even more often. 
 Honda may well have concluded that  improved  road performance is more important to customers   than  tickover being as quiet as possible but at the expense of other performance.     First time buyers of the technology will be none the wiser and accept the noise  as being 'a characteristic of the vehicle'.   Its only second time buyers who notice the difference, and not like it.

Not having driven the latest cars I am in no position to comment on bags of spanners noise, or whether the improved performance justifies it. And whats acceptable to you may be a personal choice. I may be more tolerant here than most as my previous car was a diesel      But i suspect you can  have one thing or the other, not both.

I think dealerships and Honda are in  a bit of an awkward position.  They can hear the engine is noisier, and  cannot deny it to customers,  but they know its not a fault as such  , it is indeed  now a 'characteristic of the car'.  They can check there isnt something amiss thats causing extra noise, but if they dont find anything then the car indeed doesnt have a fault.      Its possible in the future they might decide to remapp to a better compromise  . But then they may face the wrath of  2023/2024 buyers complaining its not as good on the road as their 2022/2023 one was.

I now know, if I replace my Jazz with a newer one, its probably best to take one  for a test drive first.
   

[FMIB]

No idea what changes have been made on the Jazz(I'll see when mine arrives end of this month), but for sure on many other petrol cars the engine noise on tickover has become significantly noisier, sounding more like diesel engines in some cases. It's driven by the continual search for improved economy. Engines running leaner, direct fuel injection at increasing pressures certainly contribute to this noise.
An example is the BMW 6 cylinder 3.0 litre in the 5 series, when the face lift model arrived, many owners questioned if something was wrong with the engine as it's sound had become more metallic at tickover.

[Neil Ives]

I recently asked a question about a slightly noisy first start tick-over on my MY22 Jazz. I'm now wondering if you've explained it.

[NoelM]

Have I got this right.  Honda have remapped the 2022/2023 models  so they are smoother to drive  ,quicker, quieter and recharges quicker. All wins surely?    Mapping  (tuning characteristics such as timing, fuel mix etc,and maybe the loading on the recharging generator) is always a compromise on performance,fuel consumption, smooth running etc.  And in this case the compromise may be that it sounds like 'a bag of spanners' on low load tickover  , at least compared to the tickover sound of a 2020/2021 model.  (which are presumably less smooth, slower and noisier on the move ,although I'm more than happy with mine as it is , knowing no better) )

A characteristic of the hybrid is that its often in EV mode and silent when stationary.If they now recharge quicker when the engine is running it may be in totally silent  EV mode even more often. 
 Honda may well have concluded that  improved  road performance is more important to customers   than  tickover being as quiet as possible but at the expense of other performance.     First time buyers of the technology will be none the wiser and accept the noise  as being 'a characteristic of the vehicle'.   Its only second time buyers who notice the difference, and not like it.

Not having driven the latest cars I am in no position to comment on bags of spanners noise, or whether the improved performance justifies it. And whats acceptable to you may be a personal choice. I may be more tolerant here than most as my previous car was a diesel      But i suspect you can  have one thing or the other, not both.

I think dealerships and Honda are in  a bit of an awkward position.  They can hear the engine is noisier, and  cannot deny it to customers,  but they know its not a fault as such  , it is indeed  now a 'characteristic of the car'.  They can check there isnt something amiss thats causing extra noise, but if they dont find anything then the car indeed doesnt have a fault.      Its possible in the future they might decide to remapp to a better compromise  . But then they may face the wrath of  2023/2024 buyers complaining its not as good on the road as their 2022/2023 one was.

I now know, if I replace my Jazz with a newer one, its probably best to take one  for a test drive first.
   

7 cars returned

[JJazz]

NoelM, whereabouts in the country was this and what colour were the Jazz?. Who was the dealer?.

[FMIB]

Not an engineer, but the jazz engine features the following:
Chain driven double overhead cams
Direct Fuel injection and a very high compression ratio of 13.5:1

All these are likely to make the engine sound metallic or tappety on tickover.
Changes/updates to the engine management system from 1 year to another by the manufacturer to reduce fuel consumption, increase power etc can worsen the noise.

Not saying there is nothing wrong with the rejected vehicles, there might be problems,  but noisier petrol engines are well know across many brands these days

[Karoq]

This morning's What Car, most reliable car from every manufacturer.......
Honda Mkiv Jazz.
Interestingly Honda came 12th overall out of 32 makes and guess what!.........
MG came NINTH!!

[guest11413]

I recently asked a question about a slightly noisy first start tick-over on my MY22 Jazz. I'm now wondering if you've explained it.

Has have that noise from first day that i had my Jazz 2020 e:HEV  rattle get worth if car sits 3-5 days, sounds like misfires several times on cold start, but when used 98 RON gasoline i not heared that rattles !!!