Author Topic: What oil is used during manufacture?  (Read 818 times)

sportse

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What oil is used during manufacture?
« on: April 02, 2022, 09:37:07 AM »
Does anyone know what oil is filled in the Jazz in the factory?

I've had my first oil change and they used the correct 0W20 but I seem to have lost 5mpg.

Some will be due to the cold and the wind, but I think there is a definite drop after the change as I was getting more even when we had the previous freezing weather.

olduser1

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Re: What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2022, 11:13:44 AM »
Castrol used to be used when built in Swindon, the mpg of all vehicles impacted by weather conditions.
You have a Honda whats not to like?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2022, 11:17:13 AM by olduser1 »

Lord Voltermore

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Re: What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2022, 11:14:41 AM »
Its been discussed before on this thread     

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=13967.0

I dont think it reached a conclusion  ,even though some posters have professional expert knowledge.   (and one who hypothesised a lot  -  ::)   :-[ )

Hypothetically  Honda might use an additive at factory fill to reduce friction on a tight engine.  Less chance of abuse, and better mpg.    But Honda may not want to  publicise this to prevent owners experimenting with possibly unsuitable additives. 

On first  oil change the engine will have bedded in enough  that an additive is no longer necessary, and using additive may be detrimental long term.    Untreated oil may allow more friction, which would initially reduce mpg  , but may allow the engine to bed in more quickly  ,improving mpg again.          Hypothetically   :-[
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Karoq

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Re: What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2022, 11:31:46 AM »
https://www.honda.ie/page/210/honda-genuine-oil-application-guide
Unfortunately, although they quote a special oil for hybrids in the above, they don't quote a viscosity. I cannot believe they would use a 0w/10, so i would suspect it is 0W/20 as listed for ICEs.
Not knowing where the OP lives, it is difficult to offer an opinion, but I would think it is the recent very cold snap that has caused the increase in consumption. Also very pertinent is how far the trips were. If the ICE does not have a chance of reaching optimum temperature, that would affect the consumption detrimentally.

Lord Voltermore may well be correct. When I worked for Shell Retail Lubricants all manufacturers factory filled with a fairly basic oil to aid engine 'bed in'. (improved technologies may have changed this, of course)
We produced a  a very high quality semi-synthetic diesel engine oil  and it wasn't long before a well known truck manufacturer contacted me saying that they had received complaints of excessive oil consumption from users of new vehicles. We joined forces with the manufacturer to discover what caused the problem. The result was that the oil was TOO good for initial fill and the bores had 'glazed', causing excessive consumption. They went back to our more basic mineral oil and the problem was solved. Once the engines had bedded in they recommended the semi-synthetic grade and there was no problem.
Dip Mech Eng (automotive)

sportse

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Re: What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2022, 12:00:16 PM »
Thanks, it was on a regular trip of 110 miles I have been doing early morning for a few months now.

Even with the cold weather we had earlier of around freezing, I would always get 48-50mpg.

Since the oil change I only got 44mpg which is the lowest so far on a long trip.

The service receipt says 0W20 fully synthetic which is the correct type.

Maybe mpg will settle a bit with a few more miles on.

The first 12k miles didn't use any oil at all. I used the running in procedure of light/variable for the first 600 miles before using it normally after that.

My previous civic and accord also didn't use any oil at all between services.

Lord Voltermore

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Re: What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2022, 12:01:34 PM »
I think you can still buy 'running in' oil   mostly used for engines that have been reconditioned and rebored  in workshops where the quality of machining may not match  high tech factory standards.

But i am not sure if it works because   its performance  is downgraded to allow more wear ,to speed up the bedding in process  .  Or because its has more detergent type additives.  Possibly both.  It normally needs to be changed within a short time  - maybe 1000 miles  .

Precision manufacturers  no longer need to use this  , but maybe Honda, being perfectionists,  take some precautions

I got the distinct impression that after  the initial 600 mile/1000 km running-in period  engine management changed slightly  to possibly allow a few more  revs and  engine load .
« Last Edit: April 02, 2022, 12:03:23 PM by Lord Voltermore »
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Pine

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Re: What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2022, 10:04:06 AM »
I have heard people say that mpg will improve once you have got a few thousand miles on the clock. Is this just anecdotal or is there any evidence to support this.   

sportse

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What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2022, 11:14:31 AM »
I have heard people say that mpg will improve once you have got a few thousand miles on the clock. Is this just anecdotal or is there any evidence to support this.
I’m on 12k miles now, mpg has stayed the same even after allowing for the colder weather.

Because the petrol engine in the Jazz just operates as a generator it’s not wearing as a normal hybrid engine would.

I also noticed minimal increase in mpg and power when running on 99RON Shell V power fuel. In every other car I’ve had the increase in mpg almost covered the extra cost of the fuel.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2022, 11:20:07 AM by sportse »

culzean

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Re: What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2022, 11:32:17 AM »
I have heard people say that mpg will improve once you have got a few thousand miles on the clock. Is this just anecdotal or is there any evidence to support this.

As the engine frees up and bits get polished friction does get lower, so MPG should improve.  I don't think engines need 'running-in oil' any more, the tolerances and finishes inside the engines are far better than ever. It used to be that using a fully synthetic oil in an engine would actually stop the parts bedding in, but I do not think that is the case any more.  My latest motorbike has a ceramic  coating applied directly to the aluminium cylinder barrels, no steel or iron liner any more, this improves the cooling and reduces friction, as well as prolonging engine life - maybe some cars have it as well ?  Honda have for a long time used roller bearing cam followers and have coated the piston skirts with molybdenum to reduce friction.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2022, 11:58:10 AM by culzean »
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Pine

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Re: What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2022, 11:57:11 AM »
Of course it may take longer for a hybrid engine to bed in as when you are driving the engine is only running 50% of the time.

Karoq

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Re: What oil is used during manufacture?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2022, 12:04:58 PM »
I have heard people say that mpg will improve once you have got a few thousand miles on the clock. Is this just anecdotal or is there any evidence to support this.
All my 8 Skoda's consumption improved markedly after about 4k miles.
Dip Mech Eng (automotive)

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