Crosstar noise

[Derek cranage]

If look at the video provided by John Ratsey which a Honda video it states that at 50mph and above the engine goes into direct drive with the wheels.
As I have said previously the Crosstar nearly meets all my requirements. I will have odd trips at 300 miles in a day and a number at 200 plus and most of my use will be on motorways the mpg is not my concern, but comfort (including noise) is

[Expatman]

...EV drive is available at well above 50mph depending on circumstances.
It's seems like you are trying to talk yourself out of buying the car anyway with all your worries about noise.

I don't think the Jazz is the car for 300 miles a day nor is it the car for you.

I agree that the Jazz is probably not the best choice for a car to do 300 miles per day. it is capable of doing that but really is more at home in an urban environment, perhaps you should look at a somewhat larger car more suited to long distance cruising.

[John Ratsey]

I improvised a tachometer (using phone app connected to Bluetooth OBDII reader) and noticed that the engine preferred to run at about 2000 rpm - presumably the efficiency sweet spot. The lowest revs (around 1700 rpm IIRC) occurred when the vehicle went into direct drive at about 43mph and I assume that the efficiency loss from the less than optimum engine speed was more than offset by the efficency gain due to avoiding the electrical losses. Pro rata the engine is running at about 2,000 rpm at 50mph in direct drive and 2800 rpm at 70mph.

However, as the aerodynamic drag increases with the square of the vehicle speed the power need to sustain the speed increases faster than the proportional increase in power from the engine so there's an upper limit to the speed where direct drive will work. Even direct drive isn't completely straightforward as it can include power flowing to or from the battery in order to maximise the time the engine is in the zone of optimum efficiency. I've noticed a trickle of power to the battery when cruising at 50 to 60mph and, once the battery gauge reaches 70% (7 bars) then the engine will go to sleep and the car run on battery until it's down to 30%.

The WLTP fuel economy test cycles show that this isn't the ideal vehicle for motorway cruising at or above the legal limit when the engine is working well outside its comfort zone and the hybrid system is effectively sidelined. If, on the other hand, motorway driving is a rarity (I do my best to avoid them) then the Jazz e:HEV will reward with impressve fuel economy.

[DERMOT]

I've done a 300 mile each way trip in the jazz, will be travelling across Scotland in a week's time, and will doing length of Ireland again later this month. Aim to get it down to western France in the summer.
At 70, It is quiet.  Really pleasant at70.
At 80, less so, better than other superminis, but  not as nice as next size up ( like a Merc b class of indeed my old vectra.,)

It is also really good at going slowly - very easy to creep back and fwd, great visibility, tight turning circle, and the narrowness of the car with short doors are great getting in and out at car parks...

The hrv, posts have mentioned that passenger seat height is ideal for folk that found the crosstar passenger height too low,
There are posts with heights to seat squab in the forum.
It would be slight wider, longer, and looks to be more comfortable for motorways miles.

It changes engine mode rapidly. On level motorway / main road it will stay in direct drive for a few seconds before deciding on engine- motor, and switch to ev. I thought it would stay in direct mode when on level road, steady speed and load, so surprised to see  how it switches mode. All imperceptible.

[sportse]

I’ve done several 200 mile daily trips in my Jazz, and regularly drive a 110 mile return trip most weeks.

Mostly at 70mph/on the motorway- Jazz is fine at motorway speeds, quieter than my previous Volvo V40 D3 automatic which was a low revving diesel.

In total I’m at nearly 6k miles in 3.5 months now.

Long trip motorway mpg is around 52mpg summer and not as badly affected by winter weather - I’m getting around 50mpg in cold weather, with occasional drops below that.

It’s better fuel economy than my diesel car did, plus when I drop below 50mph the economy shoots up.

[Bristol_Crosstar]

I improvised a tachometer (using phone app connected to Bluetooth OBDII reader) and noticed that the engine preferred to run at about 2000 rpm - presumably the efficiency sweet spot. The lowest revs (around 1700 rpm IIRC) occurred when the vehicle went into direct drive at about 43mph and I assume that the efficiency loss from the less than optimum engine speed was more than offset by the efficency gain due to avoiding the electrical losses. Pro rata the engine is running at about 2,000 rpm at 50mph in direct drive and 2800 rpm at 70mph.

However, as the aerodynamic drag increases with the square of the vehicle speed the power need to sustain the speed increases faster than the proportional increase in power from the engine so there's an upper limit to the speed where direct drive will work. Even direct drive isn't completely straightforward as it can include power flowing to or from the battery in order to maximise the time the engine is in the zone of optimum efficiency. I've noticed a trickle of power to the battery when cruising at 50 to 60mph and, once the battery gauge reaches 70% (7 bars) then the engine will go to sleep and the car run on battery until it's down to 30%.

The WLTP fuel economy test cycles show that this isn't the ideal vehicle for motorway cruising at or above the legal limit when the engine is working well outside its comfort zone and the hybrid system is effectively sidelined. If, on the other hand, motorway driving is a rarity (I do my best to avoid them) then the Jazz e:HEV will reward with impressve fuel economy.

The video on this site explaining how the hybrid system works said that direct drive is only used between around 62 to 75 mph, ie the efficiency "sweet spot" for the ICE. Above and below this range hybrid mode is used, a lot of people on here seem to think direct drive is used constantly at motorway speeds but this is not the case.

[Derek cranage]

Thanks, I thought it was 50 mph and above I must be wrong, it could not be used at lower speeds as the engine would stall. But going along on a motorway at 65 to 70 mph the engine will be in direct drive.

[ColinB]

Thanks, I thought it was 50 mph and above I must be wrong, it could not be used at lower speeds as the engine would stall. But going along on a motorway at 65 to 70 mph the engine will be in direct drive.

Have a closer look at John Ratsey's video, especially the slide at around 6 mins 30 sec. This suggests that at motorway speeds (defined here as 80-120 km/h, or approx 50 - 75 mph) the car will be in direct drive for 73% of the time. The rest of the time it's in EV or hybrid modes so the engine speed (and noise) will not be directly related to road speed. And above 75mph it's back in hybrid mode because that's the most efficient for the engine. The whole point of all this is to keep the engine running in it's "sweet spot" for efficiency, and the car will do it's own thing to achieve that; the driver has no direct control over engine speed.

Actually, at those speeds, I'd guess most of the cabin noise is wind and tyres, not the engine (at least, it is in my Mk3).

[Kremmen]

I can only report up to 60mph as that's the current M4 limit in the roadworks.

I find it interesting to spot the instant fuel gauage flick between about 60mpg and 140mpg as the engine silently cuts in and out.

[sportse]

If you put the power distribution screen on the dashboard you can see when direct drive is engaged as there is a little cog icon in the middle.

It switches on and off quite a bit, and can’t be noticed apart from the display as the switching is so smooth.

[Kenneve]

Actually, at those speeds, I'd guess most of the cabin noise is wind and tyres, not the engine (at least, it is in my Mk3).

Perfectly correct.
If you are cruising at 70mph in direct drive and to try to accelerate, the car will probably revert to hybrid mode, but the only way you will know, is by looking at the power distribution screen.

[Lord Voltermore]

Derek Cranage (and others who may be undecided whether to buy)  . You said on the MPG thread you used to tow a caravan.  I hope you are aware its illegal to tow a trailer of any kind with the Mk4 and Crosstar.  They do not have type approval for  towing. There is no towing weight limit shown on the registration document.

Dont worry about the 'pseudo'  gear change sounds. Its not extra  noise. Some  owners have yet to experience it .
The existing engine noise is regulated under hard acceleration by briefly reducing revs  to simulate  gear changes.  It moderates the effect of the engine revs being out of synch with the road speed .

The Hybrid system is at its best in town ,suburbs and moderate rural driving.  On the motorway I find it very quiet and refined  if you are happy to cruise at 70 mph or less.  (The speedo is more accurate than most , 70 mph really is 70 mph -many other car speedos  would need to be showing 75 mph + for a genuine 70 mph road speed )  .
I've done 300+ mile  trips no problem.   Raise the speed to 80 mph  its still no noisier than most smallish hatchbacks.( Maybe a bit more noise  than luxury cars with large engines).  The engine may occasionally get a bit noisier for short periods  if it needs to provide a sustained 100% power, for instance when trying to regain speed up a steep hill against a headwind.  Sometimes it will have enough reserve battery power to do so without extra noise.


Someone who habitually drives well above 80 mph on autobahns ( when possible- it often isn't these days) may find other cars with a higher top speed and gearing make more suitable motorway cruisers.

The car doesnt stay rigidly coupled in direct engine drive  above 45 mph.  I've had it go into EV mode at 68 mph, when loading is low, such as down a slight hill, or with a  tail wind. It notable that there is no reduction in noise when the engine is switched off. As suggested elsewhere the background is mostly tyre noise,with the engine itself inaudible.  It will also make use of the extra power from the electric motor when required,for higher speed or up hill etc.   

The Crosstar makes a great compromise between town driving and more than adequate  motorway cruising.  But if you are using the little  Aygo in town, and the Crosstar  mostly  for  motorway cruising   the advantages are less clear cut. 


   

[Jayt43]

Interesting review of the Jazz Crosstar on the German Autobild website:

https://www.autobild.de/artikel/c3-aircross-jazz-crosstar-t-cross-yaris-cross-test-suvs-hybrid-preis-20926001.html

Of the four cars tested the Jazz was narrowly beaten by the VW T-Cross...

1st place with 529 out of 800 points: VW T-Cross 1.0 TSI. Lots of space, comfort and a little sportiness bring victory
2nd place with 523 out of 800 points: Honda Jazz Crosstar e: HEV 1.5 i-MMD. Efficient, clever, inexpensive - only marginally inferior
3rd place with 492 out of 800 points: Citroën C3 Aircross PureTech 110. Comparative bargain, moderate comfort
4th place with 489 out of 800 points: Toyota Yaris Cross 1.5 Hybrid. Economical, but expensive and not very spacious

Conclusion:
The many strengths of the VW consequently lead to victory. But that was close: the clever Honda almost pulled past the expensive T-Cross. Citroën and Toyota fall a little behind here. Because the Yaris Cross can only convince with its economical drive, but not with the price, the Aircross still makes it onto the podium.

My comment:
Consider that the VW is more expensive but has a conventional 1.0 TSI engine with inferior fuel consumption, slightly higher emissions (111g/km) and slower 0-62 time (10.2 seconds).

[Kremmen]

I bet if you look at what comes as standard in the VW and add options to bring it up to Crosstar spec the price would be considerably more.

I did the VW v Honda Civic price v spec a few times and it was an eye opener.

[sportse]

I tried to price up a T-cross to equivalent to Jazz EX spec and had a cost of over £28k vs £22k. For that you could go up to the HRV, which would beat it.

The Jazz is very much better at town speeds due to delays in turbo/dsg getting the right gear.

Trying to merge into busy traffic in the T-cross there is a delay before you move. That was with a 110hp T-Cross, I've also driven the 95hp Polo dsg and the initial takeoff delay in that was much worse.