Author Topic: New South African variant.  (Read 42883 times)

DERMOT

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #75 on: November 30, 2021, 11:30:51 PM »
The NYPost lies between the Sunday Sport and the Lancet in terms of quality of its scientific and medical reporting, perhaps closer to the former

Kremmen

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #76 on: December 01, 2021, 04:39:22 AM »
A friend has been sending me Daily Mail snippets for ages and most of them have been sensationalist and most have been wrong as time has proved.
Let's be careful out there !

culzean

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #77 on: December 01, 2021, 08:29:13 AM »
A lot of things that are printed and broadcast turn out to be of questionable veracity, often part of a 'project fear'.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that the papers and channels you 'like' always print the 'truth'...  You need  to be cynical.  What we really need is a vaccine against covid hysteria..
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2021, 09:05:20 AM »
The NYPost lies between the Sunday Sport and the Lancet in terms of quality of its scientific and medical reporting, perhaps closer to the former
Perhaps a lot closer?  ::)  :o
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=new+york+post+covers&qpvt=New+york+Post+covers&tsc=ImageHoverTitle&form=IGRE&first=1

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2021, 09:16:28 AM »
Am I missing something or has Boris left the airports wide open?
Given that the omicron variant is probably widespread already and that the incubation period is unknown,
what good is one PCR test going to be at detecting and stopping infection?
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/covid-rules-latest-pcr-test-uk-quarantine-b1965371.html

ColinB

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2021, 09:27:30 AM »
A lot of things that are printed and broadcast turn out to be of questionable veracity, often part of a 'project fear'.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that the papers and channels you 'like' always print the 'truth'...  You need  to be cynical.  What we really need is a vaccine against covid hysteria..

That's exactly why the wise person reads a wide variety of media across the spectrum, and insists on understanding the source of any statements before forming his own view.

embee

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #81 on: December 01, 2021, 01:01:39 PM »
Most media works on the principle of "shock, horror, probe" headlines just to attract attention.
You will often hear (every day on the venerable BBC!!!) a headline like "The government is about to fine everyone £1000 for walking on the cracks in the pavement" , only to be followed a few seconds later by "That's according to claims by a nutter living in a cave in Arandistan". They ought to begin with the credentials of the source but of course that would dilute the shock, horror, probe effect. "A nutter in a cave has claimed that the government are doing something dreadful" doesn't have quite the same impact. The BBC don't need to do it, but they still do.
It's quite easy nowadays to be very selective and economical with the "actualité". Our political parties' PR departments aren't above editing video to make chosen victims look bad.
Quoting statistics is probably the most misleading, nothing wrong with stats but without an understanding and using them in context you can demonstrate more or less whatever you want.

culzean

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #82 on: December 01, 2021, 01:07:12 PM »
A lot of things that are printed and broadcast turn out to be of questionable veracity, often part of a 'project fear'.  Don't make the mistake of thinking that the papers and channels you 'like' always print the 'truth'...  You need  to be cynical.  What we really need is a vaccine against covid hysteria..

That's exactly why the wise person reads a wide variety of media across the spectrum, and insists on understanding the source of any statements before forming his own view.

Which is exactly what I do, I am not a NY Times reader, but when the NY Times reports on questions asked in US congress and prints letters admitting it has happened some people will still cite the politics of the news source and call it fake news. If you only read the Guardian and watch BBC you are going to get a very skewed view of the world,  IMHO AlJazeera are one of the most impartial channels for news.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #83 on: December 01, 2021, 01:10:29 PM »
Here's some impartial reading for you then.

The People's Covid Inquiry report is out.

The summary pdf is here:

https://36085122-5b58-481e-afa4-a0eb0aaf80ca.usrfiles.com/ugd/360851_62aeecaeb6944934b6c55d41708d7eeb.pdf 13

The full report is linked here:

https://www.peoplescovidinquiry.com/ 3

embee

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #84 on: December 01, 2021, 01:18:40 PM »
 Here's an example of how misleading stuff can be made to look (I've made this one from data on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ )

It's exactly the same data, just one graph is a linear plot, the other is a log plot. First looks like it's getting worse, second looks like it's levelling off. Exactly the same data.



(Edit - image disappeared before, hope it stays now)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 02:01:45 PM by embee »

culzean

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #85 on: December 01, 2021, 01:26:40 PM »
Here's some impartial reading for you then.

The People's Covid Inquiry report is out.

The summary pdf is here:

https://36085122-5b58-481e-afa4-a0eb0aaf80ca.usrfiles.com/ugd/360851_62aeecaeb6944934b6c55d41708d7eeb.pdf 13

The full report is linked here:

https://www.peoplescovidinquiry.com/ 3

Why is it impartial ?  Judges today are more political than politicians...

All the 20/20 vision hindsight about lives being saved in some hypothetical scenario is never going to work, the only ones to blame for not acting more quickly are the Chinese... and no report on Earth is going to bother them.   Working out the cost in monetary terms of damage to economy, lost jobs etc. for 'every life saved' means that you end up with a massive amount of money per life - an amount of money no hospital ethics comittee on the planet would authorise to be spent on an old person ( around 75% of covid deaths ( 'with' or 'from' covid is open to debate ) have been in already very sick people over 80, average age of a covid victim is 82, average life expectancy in UK is remarkably close to that age - who were already suffering from life limiting conditions ).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 01:36:41 PM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Kremmen

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Let's be careful out there !

Jocko

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #87 on: December 01, 2021, 02:26:30 PM »
There was a good quip from jack Dee on "Have I Got News for You". Not discussing Covid but what he said was "Should we be worried?, or as the BBC would put it, How worried should we be?". About sums up news reporting these days.

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #88 on: December 01, 2021, 07:59:42 PM »
Am I missing something or has Boris left the airports wide open?
Given that the omicron variant is probably widespread already and that the incubation period is unknown,
what good is one PCR test going to be at detecting and stopping infection?
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/covid-rules-latest-pcr-test-uk-quarantine-b1965371.html

Sorry about replying to my own post but I noticed this item tonight.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/israeli-doctor-believes-he-caught-omicron-variant-of-covid-in-london

"He undertook a PCR test on 20 November – his second day in the UK – and again on 21 November – the first day of the medical conference – as per UK and Israeli travel rules. After attending the final day on 23 November, he flew from London via Heathrow airport at 9pm. Upon arrival at Tel Aviv in the early hours of 24 November, he had a third PCR test – which also came back negative.PCR was too early to detect the infection. So either the second day of the meeting or the last day of the meeting because there is a lag between the time you get infected, and when the PCR turns positive."
“The only reasonable explanation is that I got infected on the last day of the meeting – maybe at the airport, maybe at the meeting,” he said. “That’s why the [third] PCR was too early to detect the infection. So either the second day of the meeting or the last day of the meeting because there is a lag between the time you get infected, and when the PCR turns positive.""

So if someone is infected just before a flight a PCR test taken immediately after the flight (or within 2 days) would not show up as positive.
Under the current rules a person needs only one negative result to assume themselves to be covid free.

I doubt that many people will test as much as this doctor.

« Last Edit: December 01, 2021, 10:24:26 PM by JimSh »

JimSh

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Re: New South African variant.
« Reply #89 on: December 04, 2021, 08:29:50 AM »
134 cases already but Johnson says go out and party.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-omicron-news-live-updates-b1969721.html
despite warnings of scientists.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/sage-scientists-seek-balanced-uk-response-to-omicron-concerns/ar-AARsfYh?ocid=msedgntp

See minutes of Sage meeting on 29th November (released yesterday)
Sage_97_Minutes_29_November_2021.pdf

Why not put the brakes on until more is known about the variant.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/omicron-variant-facts?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

Are you feeling lucky
https://www.bing.com/search?pc=W018&q=Are+you+feeling+lucky+punk&form=BWMFDF
« Last Edit: December 04, 2021, 12:37:52 PM by JimSh »

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