Help me find the starter relay in fuse box

[bus_ter]

See attached image.

I have a 2006 Jazz SE. I'm trying to diagnose a starting issue.

I want to try the starter motor relay switch, except I can't identify it.

I found a page online but mine is different (it doesn't have a relay plugged in where it shows)
https://fusesdiagram.com/honda/fuses-and-relay-honda-jazz-fit.html

[bus_ter]

Couple online sources suggest it's here!

[culzean]

The 'starter cut' ( starter inhibit ) relay IIRC only fitted to CVT to make sure transmission in N or P before starter allowed to engage.  Looks like the starter  engage solenoid coil is operated direct from the ignition switch... ( there is a large high current contact on starter solenoid that only switches power to starter motor when the pinion is fully engaged with flywheel teeth )

http://hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/K0/SAA2EK0A46500000000DAAT00.HTML  ( need to click on the caliper icon to show page content )

http://hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/00/SAA2E00A46500000000FAAT00.HTML

Does not mention a starter relay in the fault-finding guide

This makes it clear that the starter cut relay only fitted to CVT,  the dotted box is empty for M/T ( manual transmission ) and the relay in dotted box is shown as CVT.

http://hondafitjazz.com/manual/A00/HTML/00/SAA2E00A46500000000EAAT00.HTML

[bus_ter]

Thanks. Good info. It's a shame the online pages don't mention this.

So it looks like the starter motor itself needs to be checked.

[culzean]

If you don't hear the noise of solenoid pushing pinion into mesh ( would normal be drowned out by noise of starter motor turning ) then the solenoid may be faulty.  If solenoid is working it could be that the gear is sticking on its shaft and not moving forward fully sometimes, and the main contact does not close unless fully forward to prevent damage to teeth. Could also be loose cable connections on solenoid or motor.

[trebor1652]

If you don't hear the noise of solenoid pushing pinion into mesh ( would normal be drowned out by noise of starter motor turning ) then the solenoid may be faulty.  If solenoid is working it could be that the gear is sticking on its shaft and not moving forward fully sometimes, and the main contact does not close unless fully forward to prevent damage to teeth. Could also be loose cable connections on solenoid or motor.

I thought all starter motors are pre engaged now a days. So no pinion sliding on a shaft.
It could be the solenoid is activating.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[culzean]

If you don't hear the noise of solenoid pushing pinion into mesh ( would normal be drowned out by noise of starter motor turning ) then the solenoid may be faulty.  If solenoid is working it could be that the gear is sticking on its shaft and not moving forward fully sometimes, and the main contact does not close unless fully forward to prevent damage to teeth. Could also be loose cable connections on solenoid or motor.

I thought all starter motors are pre engaged now a days. So no pinion sliding on a shaft.
It could be the solenoid is activating.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Pre-engaged means the pinion is pushed forward into mesh with flywheel gear teeth by a solenoid before power is supplied to starter motor ( at full travel the solenoid also operates heavy power contacts that supply power to starter motor ). This is different to the older 'bendix' style where the pinion was on a helix and the action of starter motor turning 'threw' the pinion into mesh with the flywheel teeth,  which resulted in a lot of damage to the teeth over time.   If the starter motor pinion was engaged with flywheel teeth all the time the flywheel would spin the starter motor once engine had started,  the ratio between starter pinion and flywheel on smaller engine is about 15:1 ( sometimes 20:1 on larger engine  ),  so a starter motor tuning at 3000 rpm would turn the engine over at 200 rpm.  if the starter pinion was left engaged all the time by the point that engine was ticking over at about 800rpm the starter motor would be spinning at 12,000 rpm.

[trebor1652]

If you don't hear the noise of solenoid pushing pinion into mesh ( would normal be drowned out by noise of starter motor turning ) then the solenoid may be faulty.  If solenoid is working it could be that the gear is sticking on its shaft and not moving forward fully sometimes, and the main contact does not close unless fully forward to prevent damage to teeth. Could also be loose cable connections on solenoid or motor.

I thought all starter motors are pre engaged now a days. So no pinion sliding on a shaft.
It could be the solenoid is activating.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Pre-engaged means the pinion is pushed forward by a solenoid before power is supplied to starter motor ( at full travel the solenoid also operates heavy power contacts that supply power to starter motor ). This is different to the older 'bendix' style where the pinion was on a helix and the action of starter motor turning 'threw' the pinion into mesh with the flywheel teeth,  which resulted in a lot of damage to the teeth.

Thanks for clearing that up.
I have changed many "Bendix" in the past and a few starter rings due to the damage done by the Bendix.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[culzean]

Here is a good video animation of starter motor

[trebor1652]

Here is a good video animation of starter motor

That's excellent culzean.
Thanks

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[Jocko]

That's a superb video.