Author Topic: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.  (Read 28734 times)

Neil Ives

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #225 on: November 29, 2021, 09:57:53 AM »
Maybe more of these. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

I've done the tour of this place. It's like a set from a James Bond movie. I highly recommend a visit.
Neil Ives

culzean

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #226 on: November 29, 2021, 10:17:07 AM »
Maybe more of these. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

I've done the tour of this place. It's like a set from a James Bond movie. I highly recommend a visit.

Been there, very impressive - have to say though that pumped water storage is not very efficient - but quick to react for short period cover, and cheaper than having to build more power stations and keep them online to deal with peaks, like the advert breaks in World Cup football matches.   For renewables backup you really need to think that the wind has been absent in UK for many weeks ( like September this year, over 4 weeks never went above a few % ) and quite a few long periods in the past. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #227 on: November 29, 2021, 10:31:56 AM »
Maybe more of these. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

I've done the tour of this place. It's like a set from a James Bond movie. I highly recommend a visit.
Ditto, plus Cruachan.

There are more pumped storage schemes waiting for the economics to stack up https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-57510870. Coire Glas is the biggest. While it doesn't have the generating capacity of Dinorwig, it can sustain its output for a day rather than only helping with shorter peaks in demand or a power station dropping off the system. I would put an unreliability levy on wind turbine generation to make the economics of the storage schemes look attractive.

Has anyone noticed the strange energy flows on the interconnectors at the moment? Energy imported from Norway, Belgium and the Netherlands and much of it being exported to France.
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madasafish

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #228 on: November 29, 2021, 11:31:38 AM »
Maybe more of these. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

I've done the tour of this place. It's like a set from a James Bond movie. I highly recommend a visit.

"The scheme can supply a maximum power of 1,728-megawatt (2,317,000 hp) and has a storage capacity of around 9.1 GWh (33 TJ).[1]"

So to store 10 hours per my prior post (300GWH) - would require 33 such installations..

John Ratsey

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #229 on: November 29, 2021, 02:18:57 PM »
"The scheme can supply a maximum power of 1,728-megawatt (2,317,000 hp) and has a storage capacity of around 9.1 GWh (33 TJ).[1]"

So to store 10 hours per my prior post (300GWH) - would require 33 such installations..
As I commented above, the Dinorwig scheme (and the others of that era) was built to help with demand peaks or a power station failure, not to balance the intermittent renewables.

The proposed Coire Glas scheme can store 30GWh https://www.sse.com/news-and-views/2021/02/investing-in-pumped-storage-could-save-up-to-690m-a-year-on-pathway-to-net-zero/ so that's 10% of your target. It might be creeping towards happening as there's a shortlist of tenderers https://www.scottishconstructionnow.com/articles/tenderer-shortlists-unveiled-for-coire-glas-pumped-hydro-storage-scheme.

There's plenty more potential for high volume pumped storage in Scotland provided people don't mind there being some new lochs with fluctuating water levels.

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madasafish

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #230 on: November 29, 2021, 02:29:10 PM »
Relying on storage in Scotland to solve problems in England seems politically very brave.

richardfrost

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #231 on: November 29, 2021, 02:44:50 PM »
In this country (island) the future for renewables is tidal (never fails) and to a lesser degree, wave power. There's an interesting story in the news today about a new type of tidal generator developed by a subsidiary of Saab. But I do agree we should be looking to nuclear as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59401199

JimSh

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #232 on: November 29, 2021, 03:09:48 PM »
In this country (island) the future for renewables is tidal (never fails) and to a lesser degree, wave power. There's an interesting story in the news today about a new type of tidal generator developed by a subsidiary of Saab. But I do agree we should be looking to nuclear as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59401199
Surprisingly little has been spent on development of tidal and wave power.
Tidal utterly reliable and predictable.
Again however the best sites for tidal flow are around Scotland.


Jocko

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #233 on: November 29, 2021, 03:15:26 PM »

culzean

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #234 on: November 29, 2021, 03:54:56 PM »
UK government has recognised the potential.

With electricity it is all about potential difference  :o
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Jocko

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #235 on: December 18, 2021, 09:12:45 AM »
This is the thread for moaning about renewable energy.

JimSh

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #236 on: December 18, 2021, 11:21:35 AM »
UK government has recognised the potential. Every little helps.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-government-announces-huge-investment-into-scottish-tidal-power

Recognition is one thing.
The UK government is good at promises.
Delivery is another thing.

madasafish

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #237 on: December 21, 2021, 03:15:17 PM »
This is the thread for moaning about renewable energy.

It is mid afternoon on the 21st December. Cold, overcast and windless.
Renewables account for 12% of 41GW demand.

12%.. Wind 2% and solar 1%

Say no more.


Bazzzer

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #238 on: December 27, 2021, 02:43:36 PM »
A sound bite I heard this morning, "Hoping for good weather, whether it's warm weather or windy weather is not an energy policy."

culzean

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Re: Electricity generation. The pros and the cons.
« Reply #239 on: January 15, 2022, 11:03:58 AM »
We pretty much the coldest day of the year in our area,  temperature just crept up to 1 deg C... and where are renewables,  there is light cloud so solar hardly anything, and no wind either so fans on sticks producing about 4%..

I can hear the gas whoosing through the pipes to the power stations even from inside our lounge, and hear the coal  and American tree chips conveyors clanking as well....   madness
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 11:20:09 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

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