I think I may have the dreaded gearbox bearing problem.....

[doidge0]

I got a jazz a week or so ago 1.3 5spd manual   2006.

Driving it at night I notice when I let the foot off the gas while driving in hearing well not a grinding sound but something that does not sound very healthy, when I step on the clutch pedal  the noise goes away.

At idle in neutral no change of noise.
I will try it with 2 people soon to see if they can detect a noise.

I did a few tests and 1 was to try to go as fast as I can in a straight line  and I have noticed the clutch is slipping a little if I drive it hard so I guess its going to need a new clutch soon.

The big question I have is if this noise is related to the clutch going or the gearbox bearings or both.


It's a high milagebcarbaboutb110, 000 miles looks great and drives well.

I got the car for 900    mostly full service history, it has been taken care of, I'm on a budget and could afford a clutch replacement.

But if I get that done and it turns out to be the input bearing on the gear box I will be kicking myself.

I live in Cardiff so if anyone knows any good indy places or guys who do work on the side would be amazing.

I did know one guy but  forgot his number.

Do Honda do free inspections, and are they honest?

Thanks so much guys

[peteo48]

Hopefully Jocko will be along soon. He had a gearbox repair at a decent price. Might be worth searching through previous threads.

[culzean]

The proper Honda Jazz gearbox noise starts in 1st gear when accelerating fairly hard ( maximum thrust on the ball bearing thrust bearing at end of shaft due to helical cut gears ) then gradually moves up to 2nd and 3rd.  The gearbox will not break, in fact if you get the noisy bearing back off the mechanic you will be surprised that it spins freely with little noise. It is like a low pitched whining sound.

The problem seems to happen earlier ( can be as early as 40 to 50 k ) on cars used locally that spend more time in lower gears ( which are harder on gearbox ) - our first 'his and hers ' Jazzes were identical 54 plate 1.4,  the only difference was the colour,  my wife used hers locally while mine was a commuter mainly on A and B roads, the noise started in wifes car about 70,000miles and had to be fixed ( mates rates a mechanic workmate )  but mine still had no noise at 120,000 when traded in.

[Jocko]

Doesn't sound like the gearbox. Are you sure the clutch is slipping? 25 mph, top gear, floor the throttle. Do the revs rise up but not the speed? Gearbox, as culzean says, starts noisily in first then progresses up through the gears. It never breaks, but I just got embarrassed by the noise and had it repaired. I went to a transmission specialist in Rutherglen (the other side of the country from me), he did the job in situ, full set of seals and bearings, one year warranty, £324.

https://www.topgear.uk.net/

[madasafish]

Sounds like: clutch release bearing..

[doidge0]

It seems to handle high gears att stupidly low speeds never tried 25.   But when I put my foot down in first it just starts to slip a little bit.

When I hear the rattling noise when I'm decelerating and I push the clutch pedal the noise goes away.  The noise may always be there its just trying to get it quiet.

Any possible way a mechanic can do a simple test to see if clutch or clutch and gearbox?


I was thinking of driving it over to Honda and just ask them as I'm sure they know all the sounds by now.

Since i need a new clutch a reconbgearbox is 250.  Not sure if it would end up cheaper.     Unfortunately I don't have that kind of cash

Clutch I can afford but anything else I will have to sell. I have

[Jocko]

Clutch normally shows up in high gear. First is very low and if you are not used to it revs up like Billy-oh. As soon as my wheels are moving I am out of first and into second. The early Jazz has a hair-trigger for a throttle. After four years I still struggle with it in first.

From SKF:

The Clutch Release Bearing
This applies force to the release levers or fingers. In doing so, the release bearing disengages the clutch. The release bearing is designed to operate with minimum friction between the rotating and stationary points of contact. If noise develops from the bell housing area, a few checks can be done.

Start with a road test of the vehicle. Listen for noise with the transmission in gear and the clutch pedal to the floor. Next release the clutch with the transmission in first gear. Noise under this condition indicates a worn release bearing or a worn pilot bearing.

To isolate the two, keep the clutch pedal on the floor and shift the transmission into neutral. If the noise persists, the release bearing is bad. If the noise is gone, the pilot bearing is bad.

A bearing noise that occurs when releasing the clutch pedal to engage the clutch while in neutral, but goes away when the pedal is depressed is caused by a bad transmission input shaft bearing.

Always make sure that all other components are in good condition. Check the clutch linkage for binding or mis-adjustments. Check clutch pedal free play and pedal reserve for proper setting. Check the clutch fork and input shafts for proper alignment.

From A1 Clutches:

Finally, one of the best ways to test your clutch for its efficiency yourself is to go somewhere away from traffic- for example a quiet car park – put the car into 3rd gear and let the clutch slowly. If the car stalls immediately (or almost immediately) your clutch is in fine working order. If the clutch tries to engage the gear, doesn’t stall and the revs go up… then I’m afraid it is bad news for the clutch. It is in need of repair.

On a flattish road the DSi Jazz will pull happily from 25 mph in 5th provided you are gentle with the throttle. I seldom use 4th. I normally go from 3rd to 5th and from 5th to 3rd.

[doidge0]

In neutral all is good.

When I'm driving and I put my foot off the gas I can hear a not great sound like a chain being dragged but not as dramatic. when I put my foot on the clutch the noise goes away.

I know my clutch is on its way out as if I try to accelerate as fast as possible in 1st it slips a little.

Unless I can find a off duty or off the books mechanic and the gearbox bearing is on its way out then no way I can afford.

I can get the clutch fixed but if it after the bearings are on their way out it would be bad.

It has done milage and the angibe and everything else is great.

Basicly I have around a 1300 pound budget for a car, everyone said the jazz is reliable no cambelt.

This was the only jazz in my area if worst comes to worst and I have to sell it.   I'm sure I can get back wait I paid.
What chea0 cars would I likely have the best luck with?

I'm only using my jazz now for essential trips so things don't get worse.

I know in the UK it's an mot frenzy but is their any place you would recommend to take it too  and the mechanic have listen and a little drive and maybe be able to work it out?

I would like to keep the jazz but I can't afford gearbox work .  I basicly have 2000 pounds maybe a little extra 500 for insurance and tax and then I got the jazz for 900. Knowing any car I buy will need some work.


Thanks guys.

[Jocko]

Well, I have said all I have to say. Good luck. Hope you get some of your money back.

[doidge0]

I did a few other tests.

It's a very faint difference but if I get someone to push the clutch in all the way while it's stopped and in neatral with my ear close to the hood it sounds better with the clutch fully depressed, I did it at night so not alot of background noise.


I'm not sure if this has any relation to anything but I can see the steering alignment is off a tad to the left.

I did try the drive at 25mph then switch directly to 5th.   No problem handled it like a champ to my surprise. I could even acellerate so maybe the clutch is OK???


I contacted a local garage that has experience in Japanese cars.

I think the person I talked to has a civic.      He said a qclutch replacement would be 4 labour hours to change the ckutch, I can bring my own parts as long as new and can agree on the maker.. 

Then I asked about the noises probably from the input bearing he said while changing the clutch if I bring a new bearing he will replace it free of change.

This realy confuses me as I was under the impression you have to remove the gear box and to replace the bearing unless their is a fancy tool and a nrhod but sounds off to me.

Anyway the guy told me to bring it to them for a free  checkover and that they can use a fiber optic tool to see in the hard to see places.

So I'm brining it over Monday afternoon.

[culzean]

This realy confuses me as I was under the impression you have to remove the gear box and to replace the bearing unless their is a fancy tool and a nrhod but sounds off to me.

Anyway the guy told me to bring it to them for a free  checkover and that they can use a fiber optic tool to see in the hard to see places.

So I'm brining it over Monday afternoon.

You have to remove gearbox to replace clutch - the clutch is sandwiched between engine and gearbox - that is why under normal circumstances if any gearbox work is done on the car it is usual and makes good financial sense to fit a new clutch at same time - except the people who did Jocko's gearbox did not remove it from the car, they did it in-situ,  so do not know if a new clutch was fitted.

If the guy really meant that offer it is a good one....

[Jocko]

I didn't have a new clutch fitted. They cannot replace the input bearing from the clutch side as far as I am aware. The transmission specialist who repaired mine split the gearbox in situ and replaced all the bearings and seals. He said he replaced, on average, one set of Jazz bearings every week, and had the necessary tools to do it in situ. He said that if the clutch was okay to leave it as he was going nowhere near the clutch.
My local garage, with a Honda trained mechanic, told me they would have to remove the gearbox entirely to replace the bearings and quoted me "at least £1200".

[Jazzmeister]

If the sound goes away with the clutch depressed then it may be gearbox bearing noise, if it was something else then with the clutch pressed(gearbox disengaged) it wouldn't go away.

Likewise the clutch release bearing should get more noisy with the clutch pedal depressed, that's when it's under load?

[Jocko]

Likewise the clutch release bearing should get more noisy with the clutch pedal depressed, that's when it's under load?

That was my belief too but when researching my gearbox issue read on a transmission site that as the clutch is depressed the noise is at its worst and can be quiet both depressed and released. With the clutch depressed any gearbox noises definitely go away.