Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk4 2020 - => Topic started by: Derek cranage on December 03, 2021, 09:50:10 AM
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I am 80 years old had a Merc B200 which I have sold and have a Crosstar on order.
We have a Aygo for around town and the Crosstar will be, as my wife puts it, a high days and holidays car. It will normally have 2 people and some times plus luggage I am not a heavy driver although some times will accelerate quickly.
Where I live 1 mile from M1 junction I will start off on the motorway up a fairly long and steep hill. And I am very concerned with the test reports of the engine making a din in these situations.
I did test drive one on this hill and the engine screamed in high revs but at the time I was playing with the cruise control and may have had in the speed limit setting that had been preset at a lot lower speed.
Can anyone put any light on how bad the noise is, as I am considering if I should be cancelling my order because of this.
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Honestly, it's no louder than any ordinary car in foot-to-the-floor conditions.
At other times, you can barely hear the engine.
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Thanks, do you think the engine burst in revs was because I was playing with cruse control/ speed limiter.
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I think you've inadvertently answered your own question.
During your test drive did 'you' find it too noisy ?
If you're not sure get another test.
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I cannot comment on the potential problem but understand your concern.
I would suggest that you ask your dealer to take your for a demonstration drive under instruction from you as a passenger to replicate the situation you are concerned about. If a smooth, quiet drive is achieved then ask to try the same situation again with you driving under the dealer's instructions.
You will then be able to assess if there is a problem for yourself as you will never get peace of mind by relying on a 3rd party opinion.
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I would not worry, although a further test might allay your concerns.
A lot of road testers talk in cliches and repeat nonsense. When testing the non hybrid Jazz CVT, many testers cannot resist talking about the "rubber band effect". This carries over to the Crosstar, where testers often complain about CVT characteristics, although it doesn't have a CVT.
Many testers just don't seem to accept that CVT cars have different characteristics from manual cars and from torque converter automatics and also that the Crosstar, with an electric motor charged by the engine is different again.
I don't find the car noisy generally.
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Thanks.
I found the car quite except in this instance. Problem is the M1 hill is a long way from the dealer. But I will see what I can do. I like the car and my wife who is 4 ft 10 inch tall can see to drive it although cannot see out very well from the passenger seat which is not height adjustable. This factor has put a lot of other hybrid SUVs out of the consideration.
The car itself meets all my requirements but I cannot stand excessive noise in cars.
My auto Merc (diesel) was very quite on runs but had noise at tick over and in town work
I know that a editor of several car magazines has put his father in a Crosstar and says he would not have put him anything that was excessively noisy
Just interesting to hear Crosstar owners if they find it noisy on long motorway hills
Thanks to every one for answering
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While the battery can provide a short power boost, the Honda engine needs revs in order to meet a sustained demand for substantial power. Motorway hills are relatively flat and the Crosstar will handle them without noticeable fuss but if you are accelerating at the same time the engine gets into the zone where the noise is noticeable. I've never considered this to be a reason for buyer's remorse. The overall design objective is to achieve class-leading fuel economy which means keeping the engine fairly small and having to work fairly hard on occasions. Also, Honda aren't particularly generous with sound proofing due to encroachment on cabin space and added weight. My philosophy is that let the engine run in noisy mde when necessary to achieve progress but take the first opportunity to revert to quiet mode.
Here's a very useful video which explains the design philosophy .
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I've never had a situation where the engine is 'screaming' as frequently highlighted by some magazine journos.
Their reports are like they are deliberately trying to downplay what is a very good car and therefore serious competition to their advertisers.
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I've never had a situation where the engine is 'screaming' as frequently highlighted by some magazine journos.
Their reports are like they are deliberately trying to downplay what is a very good car and therefore serious competition to their advertisers.
The only situation where I've felt the Jazz Mk4 could be more refined is with ACC. If for example, after setting a speed of 70 mph the car decelerates (because of another car coming into your lane) then, once road is clear and the Jazz is able to return to 70, it does so by going - what sounds like - full throttle.
So it's an unpleasant change, primarily because the car is such a refined motorway cruiser in all other respects. Likely, better throttle mapping / software changes could dial back on the rate that ACC comes back up to the set speed (which would be ideal). But certainly if ACC is off, then I've had no issues like that.
A "trick" to make acceleration even more seamless is to use ECO mode. Yes, it dulls the power a but, bit going between full EV mode to hybrid mode is smoother once you reach a certain speed.
I agree, definitely have another test drive. But in videos / articles where "screaming" is mentioned, it's only because - against a backdrop of the Jazz being VERY quiet 90% of the time - the 10% (with the ACC example I gave above) comes as a bit of a shock initially.
And those comments apply to A-road / motorway driving speeds, not to driving in town (where things are always pretty hushed).
I do my love my Crosstar and even the above 10% does not detract from the fact that it's an extremely clever and well-engineered car. Its competitors seem dull in comparison, especially when it comes to practicality!
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To repeat the same message: once you get used to the car it will accelerate quickly without thrashing the engine. Just picture the engine charging the drive battery * rather than driving the wheels.
* Yes, I now, the engine does drive the wheels at higher speeds but I believe it's helpful to think of it recharging the drive battery.
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Noise! What noise?
I can't comment on comparison with manual Jazz cars, as all my previous cars have been CVT.
However, in my opinion the Mk4 Jazz/Crosstar is much quieter overall and quieter than the CVT when pushed.
You are going to hear any car, manual or auto when pushed hard, with a relatively small engine, its the only way to get the required power.
After 5 months ownership and 6k miles, I still thinks its the best Jazz yet.
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You can make great progress without too much noise.
The petrol station I use is at the bottom of a 70mph hill & you start from stopped on the tiny slip road.
If you floor it, it will Rev up and make noise until you are going 70 and back off, then it’s quiet.
But you can get 80% of the acceleration without much noise by using only 1/4 -1/2 accelerator pressed quickly.
I think it’s programmed to give you 80% performance as that’s most efficient.
If you floor it from 50mph there is a delay, whereas if you use the 1/4-1/2 accelerator it starts accelerating almost straight away.
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I have had a crosstar for over a year now. I usually have the radio on -just enough to be comfortable and be able to converse with the lady wife as we travel around. It drowns out the engine noise - unless I really put my foot to the floor. Don't worry about the "engine noise" - its no worse - if not less than my previous Hondas.
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I usually have the radio on -just enough to be comfortable and be able to converse with the lady wife as we travel around. It drowns out the engine noise.
The radio or the lady wife ? ;D
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I usually have the radio on -just enough to be comfortable and be able to converse with the lady wife as we travel around. It drowns out the engine noise.
The radio or the lady wife ? ;D
;D
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I've just got a new noise level app on my phone that gives a more steady reading than my previous one. . I'll try and do a noise comparison test sometime ,under acceleration . But it will be against a Yaris Diesel, which is not setting the bar very high ;D
The app gives a representative description of the noise level. I tried it the other day. With the engine off its described as "breathing" 10 db background noise . On a cold morning start up when the engine was at fast tickover this only rose to " mosquito." (20 db) (30 db = whisper 40 db = quiet library 50db = quiet office 60 db = conversation 70 db = Busy traffic )
I was on my own and found I couldnt safely monitor it on the move. But when it did go up it was often due to other traffic, not the car.
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Yep agreed, the rise in revs for a brief period on hard acceleration is not a problem. I drive in eco mode and find that as someone else said, if I use just over half throttle I get 80 percent acceleration, and there are what sounds like stepped up-changes in the gearbox as you lighten the throttle squeeze.
So its all pretty refined the majority of the time. Most of the journos seemingly have no idea how to drive one of these cars.
But satisfy yourself that it doesnt annoy you.
It doesnt annoy me, far from it, I love driving the Crosstar
cheers 8)
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... and there are what sounds like stepped up-changes in the gearbox as you lighten the throttle squeeze.
Which has to be artificial as the gearbox has a single fixed ratio.
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... and there are what sounds like stepped up-changes in the gearbox as you lighten the throttle squeeze.
Which has to be artificial as the gearbox has a single fixed ratio.
It is, but works pretty well.
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Thanks everyone.
Why do you need artificial sound, I will asked if that can be switched off
My last car a Merc auto at 70mph was doing 2600 rpm. My wife’s Aygo auto gearbox does 3000rpm at 70mph
The Crosstar engine is at 5000 rpm at 70 mph so it looks as though it is very lowly geared which is going to be noisier
May be I have got spoilt by my last car. Which was the large engined B class Merc at 70 mph there was no engine noise whatsoever
My car will spend around 80 to 90% of its life on motorways. With runs of up to 300 miles a day. I want a small highbred suv type of car that my wife can drive (she is only 4’ 10” tall so it must have a low bulkhead.) My other problem is the passenger seat in the Crosstar is low and not height adjustable but in all other respects if fits what I want apart from the noise. May be the engine compartment can be sound proofed. But that would not solve a artificial noise. I am 80 years old and looking for comfort.
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Not sure where you get 5000 rpm at 70 mph from. I believe the car can reach 100 mph so using your figures it would be at 7000 rpm. I don’t think so!
The Jazz engine operates on what is called the Atkinson cycle which means it is very efficient but throughout a limited rev range so the whole idea is to whenever possible run at the revs giving optimum efficiency and hence petrol consumption.
I would have thought the Jazz Crosstar is doing no more than 3000 rpm at 70 mph. The more technically minded on this forum could probably clarify that for you.
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I think that because the jazz is so quiet when the engine is going at more than its normal rev range it sounds loud. The only time I have found in loud was when I was going up a long quite steep hill in Switzerland and the battery was down to three bars and the engine was making a bit of noise but I was doing 70 mph. But I don't think it was making that much more noise when I was going up the same hill in my old Volvo XC60.
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Many thanks
The 70 mph 5000 rpm came from a Utube so could be false
I think I have to adapt my driving habits to meet the cars requirements
It’s nice to hear so many positives from existing owners.
As I cannot find any other car that meets my list of requirements so well I will take delivery of it and see how it goes.
I would have liked to go 100% electric but 250- 300 miles a day would be very difficult as I do not believe the charging infrastructure is good enough for long journeys
Again many thanks to everyone
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@Derek,
I have Jazz and live near M2 outside Belfast. M2 is steep climb, as steep as I have seen in UK.
At 70 it is quiet, at 75-80 it sounds like petrol car changed down to 4th. No issues speeding up to change lanes. Testing it from day 55 up to 85 with flat out acceleration ( from crawlernlane to outside lane) it sounds like down changing to 3rd,but still plenty of lift.
Get 55mph from summer motorway long cruises at 70 -80
Downhill, the ev light comes on and it cruises down silently at 70.
With 4 up and packed, it will sound like being in 4th up steep long hills.
The amount of battery change at bttm of hill dictates engine revs, so happier on ondulating hills.
The engine noise would be a pain of driving fully loaded or on fast a roads where you need to overtake everything
Like you're 18.
It is excellent on really steep narrow country lanes, as loads of torque so you can crawl around blind corners and accelerate out, and it goes into near silent ev mode passing walkers and dogs.
very smooth for your passenger, seats are comfy (for small car), and auto dipping decent led lamps.
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My best guess is that if cruising on level or near level road at 70mph the engine will be running at between 2500 and 3000 rpm and is inaudible. It will need more power if you either accelerate or come to a significant uphill or both at the same time. Initially, it will use some energy from the battery (if more than 3 bars on the gauge) to provide more power but once the battery gets low then the power has to come from the engine and the revs have to increase to provide this boost. As already noted, it's the equivalent to dropping a gear or two on a manual gearbox. There's no tachometer on the dashboard so one has to rely on sound to convey what's happening under the bonnet.
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I'm not a Mk4 owner so have no direct personal experience to offer, just some thoughts.
I think Honda's e:hev concept breaks the kind of direct relationship that drivers are accustomed to between the gas pedal and the power delivered to the wheels. In an ICE car, you put your foot down, the engine speeds up and gets louder, and the car goes faster. In the e:hev hybrid you put your foot down, and the car decides where it's going to get the power from ... engine, battery, or both. That has various implications which at first might seem odd, for example:
1. The car will run the engine as a generator at it's most efficient speed, which may mean it's noisier at a particular speed than an ICE might be (although owners are suggesting that isn't particularly problematic).
2. Statements like "X rpm at Y speed" aren't particularly helpful because there's not a unique relationship between engine speed and road speed (eg it's possible to be traveling at a reasonable speed in EV mode with the engine actually stopped).
3. You may get different noise levels even when repeating a test run over the same stretch of road, because whether or not the engine runs depends on the battery state.
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I'm not a Mk4 owner so have no direct personal experience to offer, just some thoughts.
I think Honda's e:hev concept breaks the kind of direct relationship that drivers are accustomed to between the gas pedal and the power delivered to the wheels. In an ICE car, you put your foot down, the engine speeds up and gets louder, and the car goes faster. In the e:hev hybrid you put your foot down, and the car decides where it's going to get the power from ... engine, battery, or both. That has various implications which at first might seem odd, for example:
1. The car will run the engine as a generator at it's most efficient speed, which may mean it's noisier at a particular speed than an ICE might be (although owners are suggesting that isn't particularly problematic).
2. Statements like "X rpm at Y speed" aren't particularly helpful because there's not a unique relationship between engine speed and road speed (eg it's possible to be traveling at a reasonable speed in EV mode with the engine actually stopped).
3. You may get different noise levels even when repeating a test run over the same stretch of road, because whether or not the engine runs depends on the battery state.
This sounds pretty accurate. At launch, many motoring journalists only get 1-4 hours with a car, so they're not really considering the "break in the direct relationship" between gas and driven power to the wheels.
It's not that Honda's system is forcing drivers to adapt their style, but e:hev owners - in the pursuit of better gas mileage - are far more agreeable to the concept.
Since taking delivery of my Crosstar I'm absolutely delighted that, even without trying hard, I'm able to achieve between 3.9l and 4.5l per 100km in town.
I have a vehicle which happily sits between the past and the future. And which, for now, IMHO, is the best compromise given the lack of EV chargers outside of Budapest.
My wife's car - which is a diesel - has been a faithful and likeable companion up until now. But on recent drives, now that I can compare against my Jazz, it feels beyond agricultural - which leaves me to believe that I won't even miss ICE cars down the road.
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Sorry but I think there. Is a direct relation with the rpm and speed. Above 50 mph the engine is mechanically coupled directly to the wheels and the generator and motor are auxiliary to the drive.
Below 50 mph it as you say rpm is not related to the speed.
Mpg is not my main concern but I do want to help the environment, I would liked to have gone full electric but the charging infrastructure is not good enough yet. Imagine trying to do 300 mile in a day trip with the heater etc on and when you do find a charging point that does work will it be occupied for the next hour or two by some one else and then you have to wait while my car is charged. My son has a plug in highbred BMW X3 he does around 50,000 miles a year and he has more or less give up trying to charge it away from home
I think it is a matter of me having to learn to drive to the cars requirements
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...EV drive is available at well above 50mph depending on circumstances.
It's seems like you are trying to talk yourself out of buying the car anyway with all your worries about noise.
I don't think the Jazz is the car for 300 miles a day nor is it the car for you.
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If look at the video provided by John Ratsey which a Honda video it states that at 50mph and above the engine goes into direct drive with the wheels.
As I have said previously the Crosstar nearly meets all my requirements. I will have odd trips at 300 miles in a day and a number at 200 plus and most of my use will be on motorways the mpg is not my concern, but comfort (including noise) is
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...EV drive is available at well above 50mph depending on circumstances.
It's seems like you are trying to talk yourself out of buying the car anyway with all your worries about noise.
I don't think the Jazz is the car for 300 miles a day nor is it the car for you.
I agree that the Jazz is probably not the best choice for a car to do 300 miles per day. it is capable of doing that but really is more at home in an urban environment, perhaps you should look at a somewhat larger car more suited to long distance cruising.
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I improvised a tachometer (using phone app connected to Bluetooth OBDII reader) and noticed that the engine preferred to run at about 2000 rpm - presumably the efficiency sweet spot. The lowest revs (around 1700 rpm IIRC) occurred when the vehicle went into direct drive at about 43mph and I assume that the efficiency loss from the less than optimum engine speed was more than offset by the efficency gain due to avoiding the electrical losses. Pro rata the engine is running at about 2,000 rpm at 50mph in direct drive and 2800 rpm at 70mph.
However, as the aerodynamic drag increases with the square of the vehicle speed the power need to sustain the speed increases faster than the proportional increase in power from the engine so there's an upper limit to the speed where direct drive will work. Even direct drive isn't completely straightforward as it can include power flowing to or from the battery in order to maximise the time the engine is in the zone of optimum efficiency. I've noticed a trickle of power to the battery when cruising at 50 to 60mph and, once the battery gauge reaches 70% (7 bars) then the engine will go to sleep and the car run on battery until it's down to 30%.
The WLTP fuel economy test cycles show that this isn't the ideal vehicle for motorway cruising at or above the legal limit when the engine is working well outside its comfort zone and the hybrid system is effectively sidelined. If, on the other hand, motorway driving is a rarity (I do my best to avoid them) then the Jazz e:HEV will reward with impressve fuel economy.
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I've done a 300 mile each way trip in the jazz, will be travelling across Scotland in a week's time, and will doing length of Ireland again later this month. Aim to get it down to western France in the summer.
At 70, It is quiet. Really pleasant at70.
At 80, less so, better than other superminis, but not as nice as next size up ( like a Merc b class of indeed my old vectra.,)
It is also really good at going slowly - very easy to creep back and fwd, great visibility, tight turning circle, and the narrowness of the car with short doors are great getting in and out at car parks...
The hrv, posts have mentioned that passenger seat height is ideal for folk that found the crosstar passenger height too low,
There are posts with heights to seat squab in the forum.
It would be slight wider, longer, and looks to be more comfortable for motorways miles.
It changes engine mode rapidly. On level motorway / main road it will stay in direct drive for a few seconds before deciding on engine- motor, and switch to ev. I thought it would stay in direct mode when on level road, steady speed and load, so surprised to see how it switches mode. All imperceptible.
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I’ve done several 200 mile daily trips in my Jazz, and regularly drive a 110 mile return trip most weeks.
Mostly at 70mph/on the motorway- Jazz is fine at motorway speeds, quieter than my previous Volvo V40 D3 automatic which was a low revving diesel.
In total I’m at nearly 6k miles in 3.5 months now.
Long trip motorway mpg is around 52mpg summer and not as badly affected by winter weather - I’m getting around 50mpg in cold weather, with occasional drops below that.
It’s better fuel economy than my diesel car did, plus when I drop below 50mph the economy shoots up.
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I improvised a tachometer (using phone app connected to Bluetooth OBDII reader) and noticed that the engine preferred to run at about 2000 rpm - presumably the efficiency sweet spot. The lowest revs (around 1700 rpm IIRC) occurred when the vehicle went into direct drive at about 43mph and I assume that the efficiency loss from the less than optimum engine speed was more than offset by the efficency gain due to avoiding the electrical losses. Pro rata the engine is running at about 2,000 rpm at 50mph in direct drive and 2800 rpm at 70mph.
However, as the aerodynamic drag increases with the square of the vehicle speed the power need to sustain the speed increases faster than the proportional increase in power from the engine so there's an upper limit to the speed where direct drive will work. Even direct drive isn't completely straightforward as it can include power flowing to or from the battery in order to maximise the time the engine is in the zone of optimum efficiency. I've noticed a trickle of power to the battery when cruising at 50 to 60mph and, once the battery gauge reaches 70% (7 bars) then the engine will go to sleep and the car run on battery until it's down to 30%.
The WLTP fuel economy test cycles show that this isn't the ideal vehicle for motorway cruising at or above the legal limit when the engine is working well outside its comfort zone and the hybrid system is effectively sidelined. If, on the other hand, motorway driving is a rarity (I do my best to avoid them) then the Jazz e:HEV will reward with impressve fuel economy.
The video on this site explaining how the hybrid system works said that direct drive is only used between around 62 to 75 mph, ie the efficiency "sweet spot" for the ICE. Above and below this range hybrid mode is used, a lot of people on here seem to think direct drive is used constantly at motorway speeds but this is not the case.
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Thanks, I thought it was 50 mph and above I must be wrong, it could not be used at lower speeds as the engine would stall. But going along on a motorway at 65 to 70 mph the engine will be in direct drive.
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Thanks, I thought it was 50 mph and above I must be wrong, it could not be used at lower speeds as the engine would stall. But going along on a motorway at 65 to 70 mph the engine will be in direct drive.
Have a closer look at John Ratsey's video, especially the slide at around 6 mins 30 sec. This suggests that at motorway speeds (defined here as 80-120 km/h, or approx 50 - 75 mph) the car will be in direct drive for 73% of the time. The rest of the time it's in EV or hybrid modes so the engine speed (and noise) will not be directly related to road speed. And above 75mph it's back in hybrid mode because that's the most efficient for the engine. The whole point of all this is to keep the engine running in it's "sweet spot" for efficiency, and the car will do it's own thing to achieve that; the driver has no direct control over engine speed.
Actually, at those speeds, I'd guess most of the cabin noise is wind and tyres, not the engine (at least, it is in my Mk3).
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I can only report up to 60mph as that's the current M4 limit in the roadworks.
I find it interesting to spot the instant fuel gauage flick between about 60mpg and 140mpg as the engine silently cuts in and out.
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If you put the power distribution screen on the dashboard you can see when direct drive is engaged as there is a little cog icon in the middle.
It switches on and off quite a bit, and can’t be noticed apart from the display as the switching is so smooth.
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Actually, at those speeds, I'd guess most of the cabin noise is wind and tyres, not the engine (at least, it is in my Mk3).
Perfectly correct.
If you are cruising at 70mph in direct drive and to try to accelerate, the car will probably revert to hybrid mode, but the only way you will know, is by looking at the power distribution screen.
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Derek Cranage (and others who may be undecided whether to buy) . You said on the MPG thread you used to tow a caravan. I hope you are aware its illegal to tow a trailer of any kind with the Mk4 and Crosstar. They do not have type approval for towing. There is no towing weight limit shown on the registration document.
Dont worry about the 'pseudo' gear change sounds. Its not extra noise. Some owners have yet to experience it .
The existing engine noise is regulated under hard acceleration by briefly reducing revs to simulate gear changes. It moderates the effect of the engine revs being out of synch with the road speed .
The Hybrid system is at its best in town ,suburbs and moderate rural driving. On the motorway I find it very quiet and refined if you are happy to cruise at 70 mph or less. (The speedo is more accurate than most , 70 mph really is 70 mph -many other car speedos would need to be showing 75 mph + for a genuine 70 mph road speed ) .
I've done 300+ mile trips no problem. Raise the speed to 80 mph its still no noisier than most smallish hatchbacks.( Maybe a bit more noise than luxury cars with large engines). The engine may occasionally get a bit noisier for short periods if it needs to provide a sustained 100% power, for instance when trying to regain speed up a steep hill against a headwind. Sometimes it will have enough reserve battery power to do so without extra noise.
Someone who habitually drives well above 80 mph on autobahns ( when possible- it often isn't these days) may find other cars with a higher top speed and gearing make more suitable motorway cruisers.
The car doesnt stay rigidly coupled in direct engine drive above 45 mph. I've had it go into EV mode at 68 mph, when loading is low, such as down a slight hill, or with a tail wind. It notable that there is no reduction in noise when the engine is switched off. As suggested elsewhere the background is mostly tyre noise,with the engine itself inaudible. It will also make use of the extra power from the electric motor when required,for higher speed or up hill etc.
The Crosstar makes a great compromise between town driving and more than adequate motorway cruising. But if you are using the little Aygo in town, and the Crosstar mostly for motorway cruising the advantages are less clear cut.
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Interesting review of the Jazz Crosstar on the German Autobild website:
https://www.autobild.de/artikel/c3-aircross-jazz-crosstar-t-cross-yaris-cross-test-suvs-hybrid-preis-20926001.html
Of the four cars tested the Jazz was narrowly beaten by the VW T-Cross...
1st place with 529 out of 800 points: VW T-Cross 1.0 TSI. Lots of space, comfort and a little sportiness bring victory
2nd place with 523 out of 800 points: Honda Jazz Crosstar e: HEV 1.5 i-MMD. Efficient, clever, inexpensive - only marginally inferior
3rd place with 492 out of 800 points: Citroën C3 Aircross PureTech 110. Comparative bargain, moderate comfort
4th place with 489 out of 800 points: Toyota Yaris Cross 1.5 Hybrid. Economical, but expensive and not very spacious
Conclusion:
The many strengths of the VW consequently lead to victory. But that was close: the clever Honda almost pulled past the expensive T-Cross. Citroën and Toyota fall a little behind here. Because the Yaris Cross can only convince with its economical drive, but not with the price, the Aircross still makes it onto the podium.
My comment:
Consider that the VW is more expensive but has a conventional 1.0 TSI engine with inferior fuel consumption, slightly higher emissions (111g/km) and slower 0-62 time (10.2 seconds).
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I bet if you look at what comes as standard in the VW and add options to bring it up to Crosstar spec the price would be considerably more.
I did the VW v Honda Civic price v spec a few times and it was an eye opener.
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I tried to price up a T-cross to equivalent to Jazz EX spec and had a cost of over £28k vs £22k. For that you could go up to the HRV, which would beat it.
The Jazz is very much better at town speeds due to delays in turbo/dsg getting the right gear.
Trying to merge into busy traffic in the T-cross there is a delay before you move. That was with a 110hp T-Cross, I've also driven the 95hp Polo dsg and the initial takeoff delay in that was much worse.
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Autobild desribe the Crosstar as a 'rustically planked' version of the Jazz. ;D
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Autobild desribe the Crosstar as a 'rustically planked' version of the Jazz. ;D
Sounds like it will go down well in Bavaria then!
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If look at the video provided by John Ratsey which a Honda video it states that at 50mph and above the engine goes into direct drive with the wheels.
It can go into direct drive at about 50mph or over. It doesn't have to.
What I find on a relatively flat motorway or dual carriageway doing about 65mph, the drive system alternates between direct drive with additional battery charging until the battery shows 7-8 bars, and pure EV mode until the battery shows 3-4 bars. It's silent and seamless.
Climbing at that sort of speed I've seen any number of combinations of: direct drive, direct drive with electric assist, indirect drive only and indirect drive with battery contributing. What's used all depends on the situation and the draw on the system (eg. headlights, fan, A/C).
Downhill, the system will be feeding the battery until it's full, then applying engine braking (if in ACC).
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Yesterday I went out with my sound meter intent on deliberately provoking sound.
At 70 mph , in quite heavy rain , it kept a steady 50 db which my phone app describes as "quiet office,quiet street " Pleasantly quiet in reality, and would probably be lower still on a dry road. On the return trip the recording showed a momentary rise to 70 db described as 'busy traffic'. This rise almost certainly came from an adjacent splashy truck ,not the Jazz.
I then briefly drove it ' like I'd stolen it' at nigh on maximum acceleration from 20 mph to 70 mph up a steep hill. Got the full pseudo gear change effect like when journalists do 0 -62 mph runs. By this time I had realised I was being silly trying to monitor sound on my own in the rain, so cant yet give a definitive figure for this. But the period that included this run recorded a maximum of about 70 db, but there were trucks about.
My overall impression, listening out specially and judging the noise , was its NOT noisy by any reasonable standard for the circumstances.
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Thanks every one.
As I am now 80 years old I do not feel I want to carry on caravaning and packed up around 5 years ago.
I have had a number of VW with the DSG gearbox and always found it to be very good.
I think I am convinced and look forward to getting my car mid January when it is due.
Again many thanks to every one
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I have now had the car a few months and covered 3,000 miles. And I have found the car to be quite. It has helped by the special carpets I had made to my own templates and this cover the whole of the floor and go right up the bulkhead
Several passengers have remarked how quite it is. The engine went quieter after 2,500 miles
I feel I have made the right choice for what I wanted, yes there are a few dislikes but no major things, no car is perfect
Thanks to every one for your help and advice