Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk1 2002-2008 => Topic started by: drooopy on September 27, 2019, 09:42:29 AM
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Hi guys,
I've recently bought a 2004 Jazz and I noticed that the ABS is not working but in the same time I don't have any light turned on in the dash. The light is not turning on even when the I'm starting the engine.
I've even took the plug out of the ABS pump and it still didn't throw any error codes.
Is there any chance that any of the 9 owners before me had problems with the ABS they chose to rewrite the ECU and de-activate the ABS? And what can I do to turn it back on so I can try and fix the actual issue ?
Thanks
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Hi droopy. What you are describing is an immediate MOT fail. If a car has ABS then the ABS warning light must work to pass an MOT. The MOT inspector should check it, on initial ignition on. You need to get the system checked out immediately, as it could void your insurance. Sorry to start your membership here on such a depressing note!
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It's not such a tragedy as I only paid £400 for it and intend to keep it as a stop gap car for when I sell my other one. I looked at the fuses and all look good. I'll have a look at the instrument cluster to see if the bulb is still there. What is puzzling me is why I don't have have any obd2 error codes?
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OBD2 only covers engine errors. You need specific software to interrogate the ABS and SRS.
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If the ABS light doesn't illuminate during the self test, that 'should' be a MOT fail as Jocko says. I would guess the same as you, bulb missing.
Jocko is also correct in saying there will be no OBD2 codes. You need Honda HDS or one of the Delphi/SnapOn/etc. pro diagnostic systems to read fault codes from ABS.
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I have solved the mistery regarding my Abs light. It has been covered with tissue paper. :o
I've started checking the resistance on the ABS sensors and only managed to check the ones in the back as it got dark. Does anybody know the correct value for them?
Tomorrow i'm gonna check the ones in the front to see if they have the same value and then go to the pump itself.
Did anybody attempt to repair the ABS pump?
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Not measured the ones on the Jazz, but they're normally between 500Ω and 1.5kΩ. Any open circuit is an obvious problem, but the cables to the front move and a break may only be evident at certain steering angles.
There is another reasonably common issue that afflicts the Jazz, if yours has a few miles on it. The pump motor fails, usually it's the motor brushes that have worn out. The brushes are not made to be replaceable, but if you are reasonably handy, and adept with a soldering iron, they can be replaced without removing the pump or disturbing any brake lines.
A diagnostic with Honda HDS will report a series of codes for pump motor failure.
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Thanks Paul,
The car has around 126k miles and i'm the 10th owner so considering that somebody decided to just cover the ABS bulb instead of repairing the problem leads me to believe that it's the actual pump and not an abs sensor which would have been cheap to replace.
The sensors in the back showed 673Ω on my chinese multimeter so I guess they are ok.
I will give it a try tomorrow to look at the pump motor and the ECU(as i've seen that can be problems on the soldering points). Can i find the brushes for sale anywhere or do I have to buy something closer in size and fabricate them into the slots?
Cheers
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Can i find the brushes for sale anywhere or do I have to buy something closer in size and fabricate them into the slots?
That's what I had to do, they are quite small.
Taking the motor out and splitting it to check the brushes isn't too bad, you just have to be careful splitting the motor as tension washers fall out. You can see if the brushes are at the extent of their travel without going any further, I managed to tweak the braids a bit and got several months out of the old brushes before the ABS light came on again.
There's a thread here with the brush sizes etc..
https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=10794.0
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Hi Paul,
I took apart the motor and it looks like I need new brushes as well.
Cheers
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Yes, I think you've had your money's worth out of those...
...and most likely found your problem. Good luck with with the brushes, beats £1400 for a new ABS pump from Honda.
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It's this motor always turning when the car is on? It's interesting that it's such a big problem on Honda as I haven't heard of abs pump failures on other manufacturers.
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It's this motor always turning when the car is on? It's interesting that it's such a big problem on Honda as I haven't heard of abs pump failures on other manufacturers.
It's cropped up a few times on the forum.
The motor spins all the time, if you put a stethoscope (or a long screwdriver to the bone under your ear) to the pump, you can hear it running. When the brushes are kaputt, the motor spins up then stops, or it doesn't spin at all.
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It's this motor always turning when the car is on? It's interesting that it's such a big problem on Honda as I haven't heard of abs pump failures on other manufacturers.
Just go on other forums and you will see failures aplenty - the ABS kit is not made by Honda - there are a few specialist makers that they all buy from, just like the airbag failures, most makes of cars got them from the same maker.
Except for some specialist motors all DC motors need brushes, so that will be a weak point in all the ABS systems.
https://beemerpros.com/how-to-deal-with-volkswagen-abs-module-failure/
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Except for some specialist motors all DC motors need brushes, so that will be a weak point in all the ABS systems.
I can't remember exactly, but ours was definitely over 150K miles when the pump fialed, so I don't think that's unreasonable really. Unfortunately, it's just one of the drawbacks of the complexity of modern cars once they reach an age where electronics start to fail. The brushes do seem quite puny though.
I think what makes it a bigger issue for many is the cost of repair at the main dealer, and indeed the cost of a new ABS modulator. You can, of course, send it to somewhere like BBA-reman for repair, but that means having to take it off, and it's still going to cost £200-£300. You could also fit a used one, but as I said in the other thread, they are all over 10 years old now and likely to be well on their way.
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Except for some specialist motors all DC motors need brushes, so that will be a weak point in all the ABS systems.
I can't remember exactly, but ours was definitely over 150K miles when the pump fialed, so I don't think that's unreasonable really. Unfortunately, it's just one of the drawbacks of the complexity of modern cars once they reach an age where electronics start to fail. The brushes do seem quite puny though.
I think what makes it a bigger issue for many is the cost of repair at the main dealer, and indeed the cost of a new ABS modulator. You can, of course, send it to somewhere like BBA-reman for repair, but that means having to take it off, and it's still going to cost £200-£300. You could also fit a used one, but as I said in the other thread, they are all over 10 years old now and likely to be well on their way.
Apparently a bit of a nightmare to bleed brake system after fitting another ABS module, you need the proper gizmo to plug into electrics to open the valves in the module to get air out. Much better to fix in-situ as you have done.
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Apparently a bit of a nightmare to bleed brake system after fitting another ABS module, you need the proper gizmo to plug into electrics to open the valves in the module to get air out. Much better to fix in-situ as you have done.
Don't know how bad the Jazz is to bleed from scratch, but I can vouch for the fact that the ATE modulators fitted to some VWs are impossible to bleed completely without access to the diagnostic tool, VAG-COM.
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Hello again,
I'm starting to get a bit annoyed with this ABS issue now.
I went today to a scrap yard and got only the motor from the abs pump, after the brush holders on my old motor just disintegrated when I tried to replace the brushes.
After putting the motor on the pump I took it for a drive to see if it works. Here comes the interesting part:
1. After a couple of meters I noticed the ABS light turned off and I decided to test the brakes to see if it works. The abs worked as normal but after I stopped completely the light came back on. :o
So i turned off and on the engine and the light went off again. Then I decided to brake test again and after hearing the abs working and coming to a stand still the light came on again, but now it's not turning off at all.
2. So i decided to take the "new" motor off and replace the brushes(which were really low also). The only problem is that the light is still on.
Does the ABS reset trick with jumping the pins 4&9 in the work on this model of Jazz?
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Does the ABS reset trick with jumping the pins 4&9 in the work on this model of Jazz?
I never had any luck with it, I don't think it works on the Jazz. The only way I could get any sense out of it was with the Honda diagnostic tool. The light should go off once faults are corrected anyway.
You may have additional problems. Have you checked that the pump is running with the ignition on, using the screwdriver trick? Did the replacement brushes slide in easily with no binding? Also, a resistance test of the sensors proves the wiring, but doesn't prove that the sensors are actually functioning.
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I have finally found a friend that has a more proper diagnosis tool and I was able to delete the codes properly and now ABS works as it should.
Now I have to sort out the Instrument cluster because somehow when taking the paper out of the ABS light I managed to break the backlight and then, when trying to fix that I think I fried something because the speedometer and the lcd for the gear no. doesn't work anymore. :'(
It really feels like this car doesn't want to be fixed. :D
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It really feels like this car doesn't want to be fixed. :D
It's certainly giving you the run around, but at least the ABS is fixed - and that's an issue that's meant the end of the road for a few old Jazzes now.
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How ABS works
https://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/anti-lock-brake1.htm