E10 petrol

[culzean]

https://itstillruns.com/effect-ethanol-gas-mileage-5882696.html

interesting quote from article. 
'On the downside, growing, tending and treating plants to create ethanol uses up considerable amounts of energy. By some estimates the amount of energy used to produce ethanol is greater than the amount of energy the ethanol ultimately ends up making when it is burned. Critics of ethanol believe that more efficient methods must be employed to make ethanol worthwhile, and are especially skeptical about corn as a source of ethanol, since other types of plants, like sugarcane and switch grass, can yield much greater amounts of biomass (and therefore ethanol) per acre.'

If you take the lower energy content of ethanol and the pretty large hit MPG takes, how does it make sense to
keep adding it to fuel.  If the fuel produces less 5% less emissions but you burn 10% more of it where is the sense.

This seems more like successful lobbying by the corn and sugar cane farmers to me, people are eating less sugar so
why not dump the overproduction on governments in the form of ethanol - IMHO governments suffer from lack of
technical people and have more follow-my-leader emperors new clothes types who are reluctant to go against
popular science. 

Reminds me of the cartoon I saw years ago, two MPs standing talking in Westminster lobby, both holding large files with 'Maastricht Treaty' on the cover,  one MP said to the other "I guess that now we have voted for it we really ought to make the effort to read it'.

[JimSh]

Here's your chance to lodge your objections (before 19th April 2020).
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/869814/introducing-e10-petrol-consultation.pdf

It would appear to mean that up to 10% ethanol could be added to the present 95 RON fuel.
98 RON fuel would still have only up to 5% ethanol.

"1.8 The proposed route to introduce E10, as set out in this consultation, is to set a minimum ethanol requirement for standard 95 octane petrol. This would be done via amendments to the Motor Fuel (Composition and Content) Regulations (MFCC). While the minimum ethanol level would be set only slightly above the current blendwall,  at 5.5%, it will enable fuel suppliers and retailers to blend up to the 10% limit for E10 petrol, while also maintaining supply flexibility. Overall biofuel supply levels will continue to be dictated by the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligation (RTFO),  the main support mechanism for biofuels in the UK.
1.9    This consultation proposes that the changes would take place during 2021, giving motorists and industry time to prepare. By 2021, it is predicted that 98% of petrol cars on our roads will   be fully compatible with E10. This means the new grade could be introduced when nearly all motorists can switch straight to the new main petrol grade."

"The consultation period began on 04 March 2020 and will run until 19 April 2020. Please ensure that your response reaches us before the closing date. If you would like further copies of this consultation document, it can be found athttps://www.gov.uk/dft#consultations or you can contact LowCarbonFuel.Consultation@dft.gov.uk if you need alternative formats (Braille, audio CD, etc.).An official response form is provided in Annex D, please submit your responses using this form.Where possible please provide responses in digital form to: LowCarbonFuel.Consultation@dft.gov.uk "

[culzean]

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/introducing-e10-petrol

The crafty beggars split up the response form ( annex D ) from the rest - about halfway down page in link
is 'ways to respond and a link to response form...it is a document you need to download and email separately
to the email given on form.... almost seems as though they don't want people to respond....

[Jocko]

Found this on the RAC site. The BOLD is mine.

Can E10 be used in all cars?
In short, no. As many as 600,000 vehicles on our roads in 2020 aren't compatible with E10.

Drivers are advised to contact car manufacturers with any questions surrounding their specific vehicle. For example, Vauxhall says “E10 fuel can be used in all petrol-engine Vauxhall vehicles except models with the 2.2-litre direct-injection petrol engine (code Z22YH) used in Vectra, Signum and Zafira.”

As a rule, drivers of cars registered prior to 2002 are advised not to use E10 in their vehicle, as problems have been reported. And as of 2011, all new cars sold in the UK must be E10 compatible.

The RAC understands that if you put E10 fuel in an incompatible car it will still run, but seals, plastics and metals may be damaged over longer periods as a result of bioethanol's corrosive properties.

There have also been reports that E10 is a less stable fuel and that this can make it more difficult to start a vehicle that has not been driven for an extended period.

[monkeydave]

so the mk3 jazz is ok with E10 then? and the rubber pipes etc have been designed to take it?

[Westy36]

so the mk3 jazz is ok with E10 then? and the rubber pipes etc have been designed to take it?

Yeah, it will be absolutely fine. Have a read of this https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=12850.msg95055#msg95055

I posted this link https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/130329_%28revised%29_ALL_ACEA_SAAB_JAMA_E10_COMPATIBILITY.pdf

 

[monkeydave]

thanks and have you read this

https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/why-raising-alcohol-content-europe-s-fuels-could-reduce-carbon-emissions.html

europe might go to E20 in 2030 they are idiots, i mean even california is E10 its just the way to destroy petrol cars so they can tick their box and cost everyone tons of money

‘The conclusion we have reached is that all the vehicles coming onto the market and those since 2011 should be able to handle fuels with up to 20% ethanol,’ said Ortwin Costenoble, a senior standardisation consultant at the Royal Netherlands Standardization Institute (NEN), which led the project. ‘We were working on the basis that in 2030, countries would adopt E20 as the main source of fuel.’


Another hurdle will be public acceptance. As most vehicles currently on the road are able to run on E10 and can move to E20 with some calibration or inexpensive upgrades costing a few hundred euros, there is unlikely to be much public opposition, according to Bernabeu.


But if the cost of fuel itself increases because it contains higher levels of ethanol, it is likely to be welcomed far less. The work by Costenoble and his colleagues, however, found that E20 could be produced with current refinery infrastructure, which would need minimal adjustments.

[Jocko]

My Jazz won't still be running by 2030, so no need to worry. I'll either have an EV or no car at all by then. At age 82, it could be no car at all or one of these: