E10 petrol

[Jocko]

I see the government is consulting to make E10 the new standard petrol grade. It is planning to introduce E10 from next years, a proportion that would bring the UK in line with countries such as Belgium, Finland, France and Germany.
Our friends across the pond have all sorts of issues with using E10 and the report does say it is not compatible with older vehicles. Another push for us to accept EVs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51731757

[John A]

Very subtle way of killing off older vehicles, making newer petrol / diesel engines run worse in the push towards EV's 

And it's ignoring the damage done to the rain forests etc in making the ethanol 

[peteo48]

I also read that the new Chancellor is proposing to end the petrol duty freeze. To be fair, it has been in force for 10 years so I, personally, don't object providing the increases are gradual.

With my conspiracy theory head on, there is no doubt that the push to EVs will intensify. My fear is that, instead of EVs becoming cheaper, ICE cars and hybrids will just get more expensive.

I think it's called nudge theory.

[culzean]

I see the government is consulting to make E10 the new standard petrol grade. It is planning to introduce E10 from next years, a proportion that would bring the UK in line with countries such as Belgium, Finland, France and Germany.
Our friends across the pond have all sorts of issues with using E10 and the report does say it is not compatible with older vehicles. Another push for us to accept EVs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51731757

It is probably compatible with any vehicle you may think of buying,  other than classic or vintage ones.  Main problem is corrosion in fuel system, degradation of seals and the fact that ethanol attracts water........ obviously chopping down rainforests to power vehicles still seems like a great idea ....

[Jocko]

But I don't want to drive classic and vintage cars off the road. Every time I see one it brings a smile to my face.

[guest8810]

But I don't want to drive classic and vintage cars off the road. Every time I see one it brings a smile to my face.

Me to it always brings back memories most good ones,but try not to remember the breakdowns on my 1948 Austin 12 windscreen wiper motor packed up in pouring rain we tied 2 pieces  of string to the wiper blades, and put each through front windows with glass  partially manually wound up my wife pulling one way and I the other whilst steering with one hand. Foot operated dip switch helped though ,thumping the side door jam to make semaphore indicator pop up, and then again to make it go down
Ah those were the days  and petrol I think, was about 2bob a gallon.

[culzean]

http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

Older vehicles can be modified,  but another problem is that ethanol reduces MPG,  and if you leave fuel standing it can separate - and it absorbs water.... which means corrosion.

[orcadian]

Yes, I heard that on the news this morning and felt exactly the same as Jocko.  Looks like the tree huggers will get their way by stealth as usual.  I have a couple of classics and some 70’s Honda motorbikes which will have all kinds of problems with E10 - yes, I know I could do all kinds of tedious mods.  I think VW insist that their cars must not have anything higher than 7% ethanol.  Hopefully the Classic lobby will bring pressure to bear as that sector is a very big earner for the exchequer.  I realise that we can’t go on the way we do now but can’t see the logic in using huge amounts of energy to physically scrap vehicles and even more to build new EV’s. First job should be to tax and VAT aviation fuel!  Also a herd of cows farting in Pall Mall might be a problem for an overpopulated area but we never notice it up here in Orkney.  I’m sometimes glad I’m old!

Ian

[peteo48]

One of the leading carbon footprint experts - Mike Berners Lee - describes bio fuel as almost always bonkers. If I recall correctly, he is in favour of using old chip fat and other waste but not food.

[culzean]

One of the leading carbon footprint experts - Mike Berners Lee - describes bio fuel as almost always bonkers. If I recall correctly, he is in favour of using old chip fat and other waste but not food.

I guess any sensible person would agree with that..... using land that is there to grow food to grow fuel to power vehicles is bonkers on many levels.  Encouraging people to burn and chop down rainforest to clear the land to grow the fuels is even more bonkers - but that never stopped single track minded greenies from getting their bonkers ideas through to the governments, it is proper embarrassing how easily governments roll over and accept these totally illogical schemes.

[John Ratsey]

Making and using ethanol probably makes sense in those countries which grow sugar cane as the ethanol can be made using a by-product of the refining process. This may also apply with sugar beet. However, specifically growing a crop to be turned into ethanol can use as much fossil energy in the growing, transport and processing as is available in the product. IIRC, the US growing maize (corn) to convert to biofuel is one of the worst in this respect. However, the politicians are happy as it ticks a box and the farmers are happy as they get a better income than the alternatives would provide.

[guest4871]

Brazil is a long term heavy user of ethanol fuels.

Interesting reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

[culzean]

So the greenies will object to growing of crops to feed animals - mainly cattle ( rather than to feed humans directly ) but may agree with using part of that crop to power vehicles. I am sure greenies would rather use land for Soya, peanuts or beans or some other high protein crop that humans can eat and drink.

[JimSh]

So the greenies will object to growing of crops to feed animals - mainly cattle ( rather than to feed humans directly ) but may agree with using part of that crop to power vehicles. I am sure greenies would rather use land for Soya, peanuts or beans or some other high protein crop that humans can eat and drink.

How many "greenies" in the government?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-era-of-green-fuel-set-to-clean-up-britains-roads

[olduser1]

I expect a flush of additives onto the market as another top down anti car measure emerges via a lobby group.
I wonder about digging a hole for 20k litre tank...