How do we stop burning fossil fuels?

[Jocko]

It would seem that by common consensus, burning fossil fuels has to be drastically reduced or stopped. How do you think we can dramatically reduce the burning of fossil fuels?

[peteo48]

I guess, and this is stating the obvious, that we need a twin track approach. 1) Boost and develop alternative sources - wind, solar, tidal and nuclear. 2) Reduce energy needs - I think we are quite profligate with energy generally.

That's just to kick things off

[Johncb500]

It would seem that by common consensus, burning fossil fuels has to be drastically reduced or stopped. How do you think we can dramatically reduce the burning of fossil fuels?

We can go nuclear for dependability.

Solar and wind to assist. Doubt those will ever provide much.

Go to hydrogen for vehicles. ICE will produce only water.and fuel cells provide electricity to reduce vast issues with chemical batteries.

But.
In the greater scheme of things. ALL the UK so called pollution is only 1% of the world's total.
So all our hard work and costs will make bugger all difference.

If we can get India.China.USA Russia etc to cut back.
Now that might make a difference.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[ColinS]

We can go nuclear for dependability.

I did my apprenticeship with the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority back in the 1970's.  At that point in time we were head and shoulders above any other country.  It beggars belief how we let politicians kill it and instead buy electricity from France.

If we can get India.China.USA Russia etc to cut back.
Now that might make a difference.

That is the only way but let's face it.  It's not going to happen.

[MartinJG]

We can go nuclear for dependability.

I did my apprenticeship with the United Kingdom Atomic Energy Authority back in the 1970's.  At that point in time we were head and shoulders above any other country.  It beggars belief how we let politicians kill it and instead buy electricity from France.

If we can get India.China.USA Russia etc to cut back.
Now that might make a difference.

That is the only way but let's face it.  It's not going to happen.

And that is just one example of the political perfidy. I cannot see how the world can manage without fossil fuels given the level of dependence and an ever increasing population across the globe. Alternative sources are simply not cost effective. There are of course thousands of miles of deserts around the world which are waiting to be tapped for solar energy but political instability, levels of investment required and logistics for transporting around the world including battery technology cast a shadow for now. Oh, and let's not forget the big energy players and governments who have a large financial stake in preserving the fossil fuel industry. Crack that and we have a game. However, it is worth noting that the stone age did not end because they ran out of stone. Ingenuity is the only way forward but that requires incentive on the basis that necessity is the mother of invention. Subsidies, political PC pandering and central bank tinkering are most certainly not that.

[Jocko]

Nothing the UK does is going to make a jot of difference as far as the world as a whole is concerned. Even if we went over to horses and carts, tomorrow, the effect would be minimal. What gets my back up is the UK government funding overseas fossil fuel projects to the sum of £6bn over the last decade.

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-fossil-fuels-emissions-uk-funding-environment-a9299656.html

For my two pennyworths, I would cancel the third runway at Heathrow, set minimum pricing for air travel and nationalise and heavily subsidise the railways. It is ridiculous that my step-daughter has to fly back and forward to London because it is a third the cost of the train fare.
I would also use vehicle size as a factor in Excise Duty, not just the emissions. And finally, charging by miles driven. I know it would hit the likes of me, who won't go for a s**t without taking the car, but it would cut down a lot on unnecessary emissions.

[guest4871]

(Also posted under Electric Cars0

The problem seems to be, by not burning fossil fuels or wood, we are effectively banning fire. Fire has supported the human race for some (let's say) 300,000 years.

Not burning fossil fuels is only a temporary solution anyway as population growth continues unrestrained.

More benefit would probably accrue from population control, reduction in the huge waste we all now generate and heavy restrictions on consumerism and natural resource utilisation - none of which will be politically or economically popular.

Focusing on fossil fuels is probably missing the real problem. And, until you can persuade the US to cooperate, it is probably pointless. We don't know it would work anyway. Scientists used to think the earth was flat and diesel was a good thing and all things nuclear were very bad for humankind.

[peteo48]

Nothing the UK does is going to make a jot of difference as far as the world as a whole is concerned. Even if we went over to horses and carts, tomorrow, the effect would be minimal. What gets my back up is the UK government funding overseas fossil fuel projects to the sum of £6bn over the last decade.

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-fossil-fuels-emissions-uk-funding-environment-a9299656.html

For my two pennyworths, I would cancel the third runway at Heathrow, set minimum pricing for air travel and nationalise and heavily subsidise the railways. It is ridiculous that my step-daughter has to fly back and forward to London because it is a third the cost of the train fare.
I would also use vehicle size as a factor in Excise Duty, not just the emissions. And finally, charging by miles driven. I know it would hit the likes of me, who won't go for a s**t without taking the car, but it would cut down a lot on unnecessary emissions.

I'd vote for that!

[Jocko]

The last two days I have had cause to drive past the ethylene cracker plant at Mossmorran and the flare has been burning with a huge plume. It must be burning millions of BTUs every day. How much CO2 released is anyone's guess. SEPA keeps warning them and ExxonMobil keeps shrugging their shoulders.
An ex workmate served his time at Mossmorran and told the story of how one winter morning it was snowing when he arrived at work By the time the snow stopped there was about 4" covering the site. They then had a requirement to flare and within 20 minutes not only had the snow all melted but the roads and walkways were bone dry!

[JimSh]

The last two days I have had cause to drive past the ethylene cracker plant at Mossmorran and the flare has been burning with a huge plume. It must be burning millions of BTUs every day. How much CO2 released is anyone's guess. SEPA keeps warning them and ExxonMobil keeps shrugging their shoulders.
An ex workmate served his time at Mossmorran and told the story of how one winter morning it was snowing when he arrived at work By the time the snow stopped there was about 4" covering the site. They then had a requirement to flare and within 20 minutes not only had the snow all melted but the roads and walkways were bone dry!

I've often wondered if they could heat Grangemouth with the energy that's wasted by BP.
Auchtertool would be a dawdle.
Last edit Added last sentence.

[peteo48]

Just thinking about my 2 points above in the light of Jim and Jocko's posts - stop wasting them would be good!

[orcadian]

They would burn a heck of a lot less if aviation fuel incurred fuel duty and vat like road fuel - it’s zero rated for both at the moment.  Also we should stop this crazy idea of scrapping the perfectly good cars around so we can buy electric and start using alternatives to power the ones we already have built.  The average family car deliver 17 tons of carbon dioxide during production, before it even turns a wheel.  Before you jump up and shout ‘go electric’ they deliver 15 to 20% more C02 than ICE cars during manufacture.
Perhaps we might seek divine intervention to see if erupting volcanoes can be stopped - can you even imagine how much greenhouse gases they produce.

Living in Orkney, no one has mentioned to me the benefits of climate change on reducing my heating bills!

Yes, the World is changing - it always has and not many folk live in the Mojave desert for obvious reasons.  The areas in Russia which are too cold to survive just now might see a gradual influx of people if it were warmer.

For our own sakes we can try wasting less - our freezer is 34 years old and only just starting to fail and I had my last Jaguar for 25 years and even built that from a write off - and it’s still going well with its new owner.

Ian

[sparky Paul]

The future should be a combination of wind, tidal, and solar, battery/hydrogen storage and generation IV nuclear. It's worth reading up about the Gen IV International Forum, they are working on some pivotal technology for future nuclear generation.

There's 50MW of battery storage been built on a coal/gas power station near me, a further 50MW is planned at another derelict coal fired station site nearby, as well as a significant solar farm and a renewable energy hub. Then there's another 50MW planned on the site of the power station next door, after it is flattened over the next 5 years... and 1600 houses too, but that's another story.

[JimSh]

They would burn a heck of a lot less if aviation fuel incurred fuel duty and vat like road fuel - it’s zero rated for both at the moment.  Also we should stop this crazy idea of scrapping the perfectly good cars around so we can buy electric and start using alternatives to power the ones we already have built.  The average family car deliver 17 tons of carbon dioxide during production, before it even turns a wheel.  Before you jump up and shout ‘go electric’ they deliver 15 to 20% more C02 than ICE cars during manufacture.
Perhaps we might seek divine intervention to see if erupting volcanoes can be stopped - can you even imagine how much greenhouse gases they produce.

Living in Orkney, no one has mentioned to me the benefits of climate change on reducing my heating bills!

Yes, the World is changing - it always has and not many folk live in the Mojave desert for obvious reasons.  The areas in Russia which are too cold to survive just now might see a gradual influx of people if it were warmer.

For our own sakes we can try wasting less - our freezer is 34 years old and only just starting to fail and I had my last Jaguar for 25 years and even built that from a write off - and it’s still going well with its new owner.

Ian

Totally agree with you. Far too much flying. Plus burning aviation fuel in the upper atmosphere places products of combustion where they do the most damage.
Also agree on unnecessary scrapping of perfectly functional older cars and household goods.

[JimSh]

Realised overnight that our freezer must be even older than your's, by about 10 years, albeit it's on its second compressor.
I remember buying beef by the hindquarter from the butcher and my wife doing batch cookings at the weekend.
Now it's mostly prepackaged food from the supermarket.