Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 695542 times)

ColinB

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #945 on: July 13, 2018, 07:44:07 AM »
...  discussing with local Leaf owners I was surprised to find that most of them do not have home chargers but use public chargers, of which there are many around here.

There is a world of difference between early adopters, who are prepared to put up with inconvenience for the sake of novelty, and the needs of most of the motoring public. At present I doubt that the demand for the public chargers means those folks have to queue, but the practicality of public chargers when the demand is greater has not yet been demonstrated. Quite apart from the time required, how do you force people to move their cars when they are fully charged ? If we can somehow get to Grayling’s vision of charging an EV being easier than fuelling an ICE then that would be different, but we’re a long way from that nirvana and no clear way of getting there. Nor is moving house in order to have an EV a practical solution for most people.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #946 on: July 13, 2018, 11:06:53 AM »
You cannot force people to move their cars after charging and some drivers will probably plug in and use the convenient parking spot even though their car does not need charging. Also as ColinB said (and I have said before) no queues at charging points yet, in future to own an EV you will need home charging, street charging points will be bogged and non EV cars will park in them (street parking is at premium in most towns and cities).
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #947 on: July 13, 2018, 11:18:29 AM »
You cannot force people to move their cars after charging
They will certainly need to unplug after charging, as to leave a car connected after it is charged ramps up the price you pay. However, as you say, people will park there anyway, unless legislation is brought in by the local council to have parking wardens issue tickets for cars not connected to the charger!

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #948 on: July 16, 2018, 06:54:27 AM »
Saw a piece on the BBC News yesterday, that the British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association, who's members currently own 1 in 5 of the cars on our roads and 1 in 8 vans, say they are switching to Zero or Low Emission vehicles over the next couple of years. I searched online for a link to this piece but could not find it. Did anyone else see the piece I am referring to?

ColinB

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #949 on: July 16, 2018, 07:35:36 AM »
Saw a piece on the BBC News yesterday, that the British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association, who's members currently own 1 in 5 of the cars on our roads and 1 in 8 vans, say they are switching to Zero or Low Emission vehicles over the next couple of years. I searched online for a link to this piece but could not find it. Did anyone else see the piece I am referring to?
it’s always better to look for the source rather than a news site’s interpretation of what was said. The only thing I can see on the BVRLA site that the BBC might be referring to is this:
http://bvrla.co.uk/news/road-zero-strategy-acknowledges-importance-fleets
That really amounts only to a watching brief responding to Grayling’s recent policy statement - which you would expect from such an industry body anyway - rather than any sort of commitment.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #950 on: July 16, 2018, 09:34:45 AM »
Saw a piece on the BBC News yesterday, that the British Vehicle Rental & Leasing Association, who's members currently own 1 in 5 of the cars on our roads and 1 in 8 vans, say they are switching to Zero or Low Emission vehicles over the next couple of years. I searched online for a link to this piece but could not find it. Did anyone else see the piece I am referring to?
it’s always better to look for the source rather than a news site’s interpretation of what was said. The only thing I can see on the BVRLA site that the BBC might be referring to is this:
http://bvrla.co.uk/news/road-zero-strategy-acknowledges-importance-fleets
That really amounts only to a watching brief responding to Grayling’s recent policy statement - which you would expect from such an industry body anyway - rather than any sort of commitment.

Yeah, reminds me of when they were trying to get company car drivers into diesels as the 'clean alternative' - government policy is driven by 'advisory bodies' (also known as lobbyists) rather than facts.  Government will follow advice of lobbyists and vested interests because no one in government understands engineering or science (they all studied law or economics) - and results are always flawed.   
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #951 on: July 16, 2018, 09:43:00 AM »
Thanks, Colin, your link got me to the original press release, but not much there either. Leasing and Rental companies may want to go Zero Emission (big tax incentives), but if their customers want to run diesels then that is what they have to supply.
Of the current crop of ICE vehicles being produced, diesels are actually lower polluters then petrol. They are now fitting particle filters to the exhausts of some petrol cars to clean them up, and the high NOx emissions of the tiny turbo 3 cylinder jobbies is also causing concern. They are not welcome on some markets.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #952 on: July 16, 2018, 10:24:19 AM »

This is the type of thing that's needed. Dundee setting the pace here.

In the meantime I agree with ColinB's earlier post about early adopters. I was very seriously considering a Nissan Leaf (30 kwh) but it soon became clear that one or two trips were actually impossible and one or two more incredibly inconvenient. There are also too many clips on Youtube of early adopters rocking up at charge points, fiddling about with cards and Apps in the pouring rain and, in some cases, having to get the security man to let them use the service road to the other carriageway.

EVs are still viable if you can stump up £80,000 for a Tesla or they are very useful as a second car but, for now, I'm out. The following needs to be in place before I'll jump.

1) A car capable of 200 miles in the rain on a cold day at 70 mph with every appliance turned up to max.
2) A network of charge points filling in gaps in the current network but, more importantly, a minimum of 10 points at each location to allow for the inherent unreliability of rapid chargers.
3) A sub £20,000 price tag for a car capable of fulfilling the requirements in point 1).

This day will come but I think we are about 5 years off that at the moment.



ColinB

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #953 on: July 16, 2018, 12:06:48 PM »
This is the type of thing that's needed. Dundee setting the pace here.
How do they prevent the charging spaces being blocked ? I visited a small town near me yesterday, free parking on a Sunday and a popular place with car parks full and people circling looking for spaces. There was a block of four spaces near a charging point clearly marked for EVs only, one space occupied by a plugged-in PHEV, the others by ICEVs. Much to the annoyance of the Zoe owner who arrived looking to charge but couldn’t. So at present your average motorist seems inclined to park anywhere he/she sees fit rather than allowing EVs the priority they need. If that attitude can’t be changed, then EV owners will never be able to rely on available public charging facilities.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #954 on: July 16, 2018, 12:32:55 PM »
My understanding of the Dundee charging park is that it is not a car park. It is a dedicated charging hub. Therefore the situation that can and does apply when chargers are provided in ordinary car parks shouldn't apply here. It seems to work.

ColinB

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #955 on: July 16, 2018, 01:23:26 PM »
My understanding of the Dundee charging park is that it is not a car park. It is a dedicated charging hub. Therefore the situation that can and does apply when chargers are provided in ordinary car parks shouldn't apply here. It seems to work.
Don’t think that’s the case. Have a look at the video sequence around 3.37, it shows normal parking spaces and something that looks like a non-EV (Renault Scenic ?) parked where it shouldn’t. So it is not a dedicated area, and they do have the problem of spaces being blocked. I suspect it works at present because the demand (both for charging and for normal parking) is low. It remains to be seen if even these impressive facilities will be sufficient if installed in places where parking demand is higher and if EVs are to become mainstream.

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #956 on: July 16, 2018, 01:25:24 PM »
How do they prevent the charging spaces being blocked ?
Whether it is charging spaces, Disabled spaces, or Mother and child spaces, kn*bheads will still park in them, unless they are given some sort of legal recognition and wardens to ticket errant motorists. I can understand  the frustration of motorists who cannot find a parking space, but some are simply unbelievable.
My local Lidl has Disabled spaces and Mother and Child spaces right outside the door. The car park is only about 30 yards from the furthest away space to the door and  is never above 40% occupied, but I regularly see the lazy and too self opinionated using a marked space instead of parking in a non designated bay. The spaces are in a double row, down the middle of the car park (with another single row down the perimeter of the car park), and I usually park in the space BEHIND the marked space,  then watch the "usual suspects" draw forward into the marked bays.
I saw a good bit of parking today. A fat middle aged woman, on her way to "Curves" the local fitness centre, had 30 yards of space to park in, but pulled right up to the junction to park, to save her walking that little distance extra. Seems she had a fat head, not just a fat @rse.
Rant over.

ColinB

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #957 on: July 16, 2018, 03:28:35 PM »
So it's human nature that special-purpose parking spaces will always be misused ? But yet we're expected to believe that public charging of EVs is a viable way forward for folks without the possibility of  charging at home ? Bit of an inconsistency there.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #958 on: July 16, 2018, 07:57:29 PM »
A fat middle aged woman, on her way to "Curves" the local fitness centre, had 30 yards of space to park in, but pulled right up to the junction to park, to save her walking that little distance extra. Seems she had a fat head, not just a fat @rse.
Rant over.

I have seen that on our local shopping centre Gym,  members try to park right outside the door,  they could save themselves gym membership if they walked a bit more and took stairs instead of lift (and ate less,  but lets not go there).  People go to gyms for more than exercise though,  they go to perve and for the company sometimes,  I doubt many gym goers carry on much after mid February and gyms are more than happy to welcome in the 'new years resolution' members as easy money. 
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

JohnAlways

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #959 on: July 17, 2018, 12:09:25 PM »
Hi all
I go to the gym with my wife and have been for two years now. she goes to swim at the pool and I go to the gym and then for a swim. I don't go to perve, because my cancer drugs give me muscle wastage and bone thinning I go to offset the drug effect, retain and build muscle and generally feel better in myself. Not all people go to a gym for the earlier stated reasons. The gym is 4 miles from my house and the entrance to the leisure centre is 100 yds from the car park.
Walking to the gym is not feasible the time I get home from work, I go four times a week, go for walks with my wife two of the non-gym days, run around playing football with my grand kids or swimming or other excursions every Saturday. i also fit in gardening, shopping, looking after three jazz's as well as spending 45 hours a week at work plus travel each day. I'm not going to sit around bemoaning the cancer but get on with life and the gym stops the walls closing in. I might even think about retiring soon as there are lots of household projects I don't get the time to do with working and yes I'm well past retiring.

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