Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums
Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk3 2015 - 2020 => Topic started by: Philno on November 19, 2022, 07:11:53 PM
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Hello all
I live in Yorkshire and like the rest of the UK we've had a lot of heavy rain the last few days.
I have not used my Jazz for a couple of days and when I opened the driver's door this afternoon I was shocked to find a pool of water about 1" deep in the driver's footwell. I am assuming it was rain water that had got in as it was clear in colour and did not smell of coolant. Having mopped it up, I drove the car to the Supermarket and back. Due to failing daylight I couldn't really start looking at what the cause could be and will make a start on this tomorrow.
I park my car on my drive, which slopes about 30 degrees downwards. It is not horizontally flat either and so when you look at the parked car from the front, the drivers side is tilted downwards by about 15 to 20 degrees- therefore when it rains, water flows down the car more to the front left (drivers) side.
I'm just wondering if anyone with a 3rd gen Jazz has had similar problems. The passenger front footwell is bone dry. I have read on your forum that older Jazz's have had similar problems, both front and rear.
Obviously, I will check door drain holes and seals, plus the area below the windscreen and under the bonnet. The leak does not appear to be coming from where the pedals are located as the carpet felt there is dry.
The car has only done 15000 miles and I've never experienced this on previous cars so any ideas would be most appreciated.
Many Thanks
Phil
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Might be worth parking the other way around to see if the water collects on the other side.
Beyond that it could be the usual suspects, has the windscreen been replaced and not sealed properly? Or are the plastic sheets behind the door cards letting water in, has a side window been replaced?
The footwells are quite deep, so it's unlikely it's travelled from passenger to driver's side.
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Had previous 2014 model where a grommet in front left pillar to seal electric wire had been omitted at build letting water in on flooded road?
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A 2014 is a Swindon built car and the error is excusable, but the OP has a Japan built car, if that had happened the worker would be in prison for many years lol....
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I have had this problem. It arose after having the passenger door repainted due to being scratched.
I experienced water on the bottom of the door seal and water at the base of the door panel, I took the panel off and noted that the plastic door sealing sheet had been refitted with a gap (kinked) allowing water to pass through.
Luckily, I was able to smooth out the kinks, however the sealant beading isn't as thick and there's some residual water which stays behind the sheeting. Have a look at the photo, there was a few areas like this.
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Before I took the panel off, I read of a solution to trim back the seal on the bottom edge of the door which covers the drain holes (just around the holes). I lay on the floor and made a few small cuts but that wasn't a successful outcome.
It seems like a a few people have experienced issues with the sheeting following a Google search and watching a few videos on YouTube.
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Many thanks to all who have took their valuable time to offer suggestions. Since it was dry and sunny today I have been able to make a start having a look at what may be causing this.
It rained last night, but not as heavily as a couple of days ago, so there was no big puddle when I opened the door this morning.
I realise that I'm not going to sort this straight away so I am going to try and check things methodically.
I bought the car from Cazoo 18 months ago and had no problems with it last winter.
One thing I have noticed is that where the bottom of the windscreen mates with the plastic panel from which the windscreen wipers emanate, the rubber seal is not sound for about two thirds of the length.
The seal is in good condition, so I'm thinking that the very hot heat we had this summer may have caused the plastic panel to disengage from the glass.
Pushing the plastic down does not re-engage the seal.
Could this be a possible cause of the internal leak ?
I have temporarily covered the gap with black vinyl tape for the time being.
Thanks all. I will keep you all informed on my progress with this so that anyone with a mark3 may find this useful in the future.
Phil
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Also check the pollen filter,it's behind the passenger glice box. A fav place to get blocked then water enters the car. Also https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical-stuff/191579-solved-water-leakage-problem-honda-jazz-city.html basically blocked drain holes.
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I followed the info posted by olduser1 but for me the issue was with the plastic door seal.
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One thing I have noticed is that where the bottom of the windscreen mates with the plastic panel from which the windscreen wipers emanate, the rubber seal is not sound for about two thirds of the length.
The seal is in good condition, so I'm thinking that the very hot heat we had this summer may have caused the plastic panel to disengage from the glass.
Pushing the plastic down does not re-engage the seal.
Could this be a possible cause of the internal leak ?
In modern cars the windscreen is bonded into the frame. it forms part of the structural integrity of the car. There is no rubber seal on modern windscreens. The rubber you are talking about, assuming it is similar to my Mk1, just fills the gap to the plastic trim.
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My driveway is sloped and for the 14 years I owned it, from new , my Yaris was prone to excessive condensation. I never did find the source , which doesnt help you much :-[ . It never extended to wet carpets as such.
I'm fairly sure it was related to the fact rain water sometimes pooled on ledges etc which would have drained themselves had the car been parked on the level.
Water can sometimes trickle quite a long distance from where it leaks in.
You could try getting the car dried out as thoroughly as possible. ( Easier in a hot summer ;D) and search various nooks and crannies to check they are currently dry. (and crooks and nannies if you want) Then put a hose on the car in strategic areas and check again for dampness. The reason for the before and after is it might help you trace the progress of new dampness/wetness as its spreads from the leak. I find dry fingers are a good judge of dampness, perhaps aided with a bit of something like talcum powder.
I dont know if there is any damp meter that could aid in this. I have experimented in the past using an ordinary digital multimeter set on 2000k ohms. When you place the probes near each other ,but not quite touching , there is sometimes a slight trickle of electricity and a reading if if its wet (battery voltage) But never found it any advantage over dry fingers (I think damp meters with probes work on the same principle, but presumably they are much more sensitive.)
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Check for leaves blocking the drain holes under the windscreen . that may cause internal flooding.
When I replaced my Mark 2 plugs and removed the plastic panel at the foot of the screen, I was amazed at the collection of dirt underneath
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Check for leaves blocking the drain holes under the windscreen . that may cause internal flooding.
When I replaced my Mark 2 plugs and removed the plastic panel at the foot of the screen, I was amazed at the collection of dirt underneath
I had that trouble on a previous car (Renault Scenic). The vent intake plenum was under a grille in front of the windscreen, and was drained by a couple of tubes, one each side. The plenum got clogged with leaf litter, which blocked the tubes. Water sloshed from side to side, and eventually overflowed onto the passenger's feet. Clearing the drain tubes was a real PITA. Haven't had that problem in the Jazz, but I am now conscientious about clearing fallen leaves from in front of the windscreen.
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I am thinking that the source of this footwell leak MAY have come from beneath the plastic trim where the hood and petrol cap release pull buttons are located.
This is in the area where this trim meets the carpet.
Still doing my detective work when the weather and available daylight allows.
It's been raining again, not heavily, but the mopped up area has not got any worse as when I left it yesterday.
I have checked the door drain holes and grill area beneath windscreen for blockage/debris-they appear Ok but I will check them further when weather conditions allow.
I've checked the pollen filter -it was dry and clean with no debris. I changed it for new this Spring.
I am also investigating a 15mm circular hole on the edge of the drivers door near the lock. On the passenger door this hole is covered by a black plastic cover, but not on the driver's door.
l will keep persevering.........
Many thanks
Phil
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My driveway is sloped and for the 14 years I owned it, from new , my Yaris was prone to excessive condensation. I never did find the source .......,
FWIW I had a mk.1 Yaris which eventually (20yrs old) succumbed to the sill rot just forward of the rear wheel arch which is a common failure in the old Yaris. I'm 99% sure it is down to the roof seam sealing eventually failing (under the black trim strip) and leaking water into the roof rail just above the B/C post, the water runs down the post and into the sill. I found that on odd occasions the headlining would be slightly damp just above the B/C post, though it never did stain it. Someone bought my Yaris to renovate it, I told them of the faults and they were happy to take on the project.
Early Jazz models had a similar roof seam leak issue at the rear, leaking water into the boot space. Possibly it was an ageing process of the sealant used back then??
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I had the misfortune of buying what appeared to be a clean, low mileage jazz from the dealer which I returned to the dealer due to it leaking and issues with the Bluetooth phone.
It appeared to have been painted as some bits were missing from the bonnet plastic trim and a few other things. The dealer couldn't replicate the issue and I lost confidence so exchanged it. I didn't brave taking the panel off to investigate but suspect it was caused by the sheeting being removed or cut.
I will try and attach some of the photos for the OP to compare, in particular, below the door panel and the face of the door seal.
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Again...
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I'd reckon your car may have had a new windscreen and it probably hasn't bonded properly, causing the leak.
If you look at the windscreen is it genuine Honda or another make, that may be a clue.
Then I guess it's a case of sitting in the car whilst an assistant uses a hosepipe to wet different parts of the screen to see where leaks.
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Hi
I think the windscreen is the original unit, there is nothing on service history to say it was changed.
Other things I'm going to look at:
-Blocked Air Conditioning Drain pipe: Does anyone know where it is on the Mark 3? Is it behind the engine low down? Would water (not coolant) come out of this?
-Wheel arch liner: I've read that wet gunge can collect behind it. I might unscrew it and have a look.
-Possible loss of /or poor seal under the front of the car. Or a bad weld.
The poor weather is slowing down my checks, but by narrowing it down it might save a few bob when I book it in at a car repair place.
I have driven the car in very wet weather this morning and I will see if the big puddle comes back after it's been parked a while.
The floorpan was only marginally damp when I set off.
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Blocked aircon drain pipe will be water, not coolant. Its a drain for the water that condenses from moisture in the air due to the cooling process. Like water on the outside of a cold beer (maybe I should do some 'special 'research into the phenomena. :P )
This may be enough to make the interior damp , and could build up over time, but I doubt it could fill a footwell in a short space of time.
Sorry I dont know where it is. But you could possibly eliminate it as a cause by parking the car somewhere dry and running the engine and aircon for a while. The drain normally drips some water onto the road under the car . If some water drips its probably ok. But the absence of a drip is not conclusive proof of a problem. There may not be enough moisture to need it. If you are anything like me you will then start worrying the drip is coming from somewhere else :-\
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Hi Glosrich
The Windscreen: Yes-interesting. Just checked the glass on the car. All the windows have the H Honda Automotive etching on them, except for the Windscreen! The make is FAYAO
Attached are photos of the leak area in the floorwell and the door hole covers I mentioned on earlier post. On the driver's door I covered the hole with a sticky pad.
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Looks more like from pillar region?
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Just saw this seal where the quarter light window meets with the top right corner of the door. Something to check. The first picture is the passenger side which looks ok, but the driver side looks a bit wrong
(2nd picture)
Regards
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Sorry, wrong pic of suspected driver's side seal
Here it is...
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Please ignore the following 2 posts. I got a bit confused. I will recheck the A Piller area door sealing and above it tomorrow .
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My driveway is sloped and for the 14 years I owned it, from new , my Yaris was prone to excessive condensation. I never did find the source .......,
FWIW I had a mk.1 Yaris which eventually (20yrs old) succumbed to the sill rot just forward of the rear wheel arch which is a common failure in the old Yaris. I'm 99% sure it is down to the roof seam sealing eventually failing (under the black trim strip) and leaking water into the roof rail just above the B/C post, the water runs down the post and into the sill. I found that on odd occasions the headlining would be slightly damp just above the B/C post, though it never did stain it. Someone bought my Yaris to renovate it, I told them of the faults and they were happy to take on the project.
Early Jazz models had a similar roof seam leak issue at the rear, leaking water into the boot space. Possibly it was an ageing process of the sealant used back then??
Our 2003 Yaris D4D lost most of its paint in the place you describe and the galvanising wore out so I Dinitrolled it about 4 years ago. It is still 100% solid and the roof does not leak, (Japan made)
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Those circle door grommets are outside of the door seals, so won't be leaking.
As I mentioned it's likely to be the windscreen or the plastic sheet behind the door trims leaking in.
You really need to get the hose pipe on the windscreen area and see if it leaks in, and the passenger door maybe also.
Lay some toilet roll around the inside of the car near the doors to see where it is coming in, the toilet roll will be wet.
The Aircon drain would never create that much water, do you even use the Aircon?
It's not been unknown for Cazoo to supply cars that have had accident damage, so maybe it's been badly repaired, did you do a car vertical check for accident damage before buying?
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8 days on (with most days being rainy) the big puddle in driver's footwell has not reoccurred, touchwood.
Today being dry and sunny, I did a few more checks.
Please see attached photos of the upper engine bay on driver's side. This is where the screen washer pipe goes to the trim under windscreen.
There appears to be a badly sealed seam with a dirty water gunged area coming down from near it. I cleaned the area and have applied a generous bead of silicon sealant all around it. I'll see if this has any effect.
I checked the bottom of the drivers door and there were no wet water trails on the inner door seal footplate area.
The lower bottom right hand side of the floorpan next to the front door pillar is still
damp. I am going to get my wet/dry vac to it tomorrow to try and get out some of the remaining water that accumulated in the underfelt last week, so I can see if the leak is still occuring.
So still trial and error for now.
The only other thing I did was to stick a temporary strip of vinyl tape between windscreen and the black plastic trim beneath it.
Looking on the web, leaks of this type seem to effect many makes of cars!
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All looks pretty normal, no signs of damage.
I still advise getting your hose pipe out soak the passenger and driver's door and windscreen in turn and then see if it gets wet inside.
It's most likely a badly sealed windscreen.
Also worth checking the pollen filter behind the glovebox in case that is wet.
Here is a guide
https://catalog.mann-filter.com/file/Product/MediaAssets/HBBBJ1T7.pdf
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Thanks Glosrich
I will look at the windscreen sealing next.
I will try some soapy water over areas of the windscreen to see where any bubbles appear.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I checked the cabin filter behind the glove box the other day. It was dry as a bone and had hardly any debris on it as I replaced it with a new one in the Spring.
I don"t think the water is coming from the door. There was no water on the inner door seal when I opened driver door this morning. See attached photo.
I still think the water enters from under the plastic door trim where the boot release latch is located. A soapy water test might help confirm the source.
As you can see from the other attached photo, my drive is sloped so that any rain/melted frost drains from front left to the ground. This is how I always park it.
I cannot park nose up as the fence would restrict me from getting in and out of the car !
Does anybody know if the large windscreen seals on the left and right of the windscreen (photo) can be carefully eased off without damage so I can check for any anomalies?
Thanks for your patience folks, sorry to be a pain!
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Sorry
Correct photo of opened door this morning
Attached. No water on inner seal despite damp overnight
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Sorry. My phone is playing up!
Picture of car in normal parking place.
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Looking at the wet patch by the front wheel could there be water in the heater plenum where the drain holes are? It looks like the water is draining out but perhaps after the heavy rain it didn't drain quickly enough and lipped over, through the heater matrix and into the footwell.
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Thanks Jocko
You certainly have more technical knowledge than me regarding autos !
Is the heater plenium underneath the black plastic grilled strip from which the windscreen wiper bottoms go through, directly below bottom of windscreen?
P
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Yes. With the holes in the top to let the fresh air in. Sometimes at this time of the year, it can get choked with leaf debris.
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Thanks to all with your suggestions.
Based on the info from Glosrich and Jocko,
I am going to book the car in with my local
car repair business for it to be looked at next week hopefully.
I will ask them to particularly look at the windscreen for any bad seals and under the plastic grill which covers the drain holes and heater plenum area for any blockages. The heater and Aircon appear to be working OK.
I will let this forum know how I get on so it may help others in the future.
I am going to put the wet/dry vac on the still very damp area of the footwell. I have been using newspaper and towels to soak up water from the underfelt below and there is still quite a bit of water under there as the towels are still very wet when I change them. I've not tried to take the carpet up, only removed the car mat, so there may be still a slow seepage going in.
We shall see!
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The pollen filter is behind the glovebox, so that suggests the heater inlet would also be passenger side above it, into the plenum at the base of the windscreen.
I would get the pollen filter out and see if it's wet.
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Can you remove cover over the pillar and have a look in there.
It is the drivers side you said, some answers here seem to refer to passenger side.
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Glosrich
You may have missed my replies (see reply #29) that I have checked the pollen filter behind the glove box. I took it out and it was dry as a bone and clean as I put a new one in this Spring.
I am booking in the car with a garage. I am not a car enthusiast and I am more safer getting someone with the better skills to look at it further as December is not a good time to take car to bits! If it was summer I might have had a go taking off the pillar trim, but I'd sooner pay than risk things!
Regards
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Glosrich
You may have missed my replies (see reply #29) that I have checked the pollen filter behind the glove box. I took it out and it was dry as a bone and clean as I put a new one in this Spring.
I am booking in the car with a garage. I am not a car enthusiast and I am more safer getting someone with the better skills to look at it further as December is not a good time to take car to bits! If it was summer I might have had a go taking off the pillar trim, but I'd sooner pay than risk things!
Regards
Any news yet has it been solved
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Hi Bigfellah
I've not yet resolved this yet, but I intend to have the vehicle checked out by my local Honda approved car repairer after Xmas.
Despite recent rain there has not been any further noticeable water ingress in the driver's floorpan. Since I used the wet dry hoover to suck up the wet area last week, the area has got progressively dryer. I still intend to have it looked at soon though as I don't want rust or any electrical problems as the damp area is not far below the cabin fuse box area and presumably the ECU .
I'm still monitoring it daily.
I think the water came over/through the firewall from the windscreen cowl due to a blockage. Also the seal between the bottom of the windscreen and the engine cowl looks a bit dodgy to me as there is a small gap along the centre quarter of its length of approx 3mm which could swallow up water. I think heat from the hot sun this summer could have distorted the black plastic causing misalignment. I temporarily covered this with black electrical tape.
So we shall see
Honda: The Power of Dreams
(Their dreams, not mine, I don't know what substance their marketing people were snorting!)
- I'm dreaming of a dry papap!
Sorry Bing Crosby!
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(Their dreams, not mine, I don't know what substance their marketing people were snorting!)
- I'm dreaming of a dry papap!
They got a taste for snorting dry white powder while searching for damp. They should have used talcum powder
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Just an update after nearly 4 months. The water ingress in the driver's foot well has not reoccurred since the original event in November. This is after a very wet winter.
I held back taking the car in for inspection like I said I was going to do.
I had the car serviced and MOT'd last month with no problems.
A couple of weeks ago we had torrential rain which caused the abandonment of my local Championship football team's fixture early in the second half. The car survived it!
My friend suggested that the original leak could have been caused by a temporary blockage due to Autumn debris building up below the windscreen. So far so good, but I will still keep monitoring it just in case.....!
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Very good news.