Clubjazz - Honda Jazz & HR-V Forums

Honda Jazz Forums => Honda Jazz Mk2 2008-2015 => Topic started by: Jo on December 05, 2016, 08:37:03 PM

Title: Headlights
Post by: Jo on December 05, 2016, 08:37:03 PM
I have had a '62 Jazz which I've owned for the last 4 years.  Had an older second-hand Jazz before this.

Since owning this newer model I have only driven in the dark literally less than 10 times.  I just cannot drive at night time as I cannot see where I am going.  I have convinced myself that I have some sort of night blindness. I can't go to the doctor in case he informs the DVLA.   Eyesight tests don't back up my diagnosis, Specsavers just keep selling me expensive night driving glasses which make no difference.

Two nights ago a friend borrowed my car at night and immediately stated "I can't see where I'm going.  You need to get the headlights adjusted.  They're just not lighting up the road ahead."

I've tried adjusting that little switch inside the car, I think it goes 0-1-2 but that doesn't help.  Has anyone else found a problem with the headlights?
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on December 05, 2016, 08:54:50 PM
First of all make sure both headlamps are lit up - it may sound obvious but both the throw and spread are badly affected by losing a bulb.

With no rear passengers or boot luggage the dial should be on '0' selecting a higher number lowers the beam to allow for rear of car dropping as weight is put into rear, which naturally causes the front to tip up and raise the lights, which can dazzle oncoming drivers.

Standard bulbs are not real good and  you should get some brighter headlight bulbs - Phillips extreme vision or osram nightbreakers, H4 twin filament. Make sure your plastic headlight covers have not gone misty, on a 4 year old car they should still be very clear.

Search for headlight or bulbs or Osram on forum, it's been widely discussed.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jo on December 05, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
Yes, that dial is on 0.  Headlight covers are completely clear.  Think I'll have to look into changing the bulbs.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: richardfrost on December 05, 2016, 10:23:58 PM
It's a really simple job on this model Jazz. Reckon a friendly family garage would do fit fresh higher spec bulbs such as the ones Culzean listed for around £30.

Certainly should be cheaper than new glasses, even from Specsavers.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: jazzway on December 05, 2016, 10:33:03 PM
When we bought our Jazz last year i replaced the head-bulbs after 2 weeks with Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited. It was a day and night difference and they're still going strong!

And to match the head-light color i changed the side/parking lights with Philips White vision ones. ;)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on December 06, 2016, 10:50:31 AM
When we bought our Jazz last year i replaced the head-bulbs after 2 weeks with Osram Nightbreaker Unlimited. It was a day and night difference and they're still going strong!

And to match the head-light color i changed the side/parking lights with Philips White vision ones. ;)

https://www.powerbulbs.com/store/category/car-bulbs/fitting/h4-472 (https://www.powerbulbs.com/store/category/car-bulbs/fitting/h4-472)

I have tried a few makes of bulbs (I used to commute 80 miles a day - a lot of it in the dark,  so bulbs did not last more than 12 months) and found that Phillips beam pattern was better than Osram,  the osram seemed slightly brighter but more 'fuzzy'.  some of the bulbs on the above link are labeled 'not legal for road in EU' because of their power, beam pattern or colour (the higher the 'K' number the bluer / whiter the light).

I have bought from Powerbulbs and find them very good to deal with,  all the prices are for a pair.   You can sometimes get 2 for 1 deals from Halfords on Bosch and Halfords own brand.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 15, 2017, 04:27:06 PM
Reviving this thread,

Just found this site (was looking for motorcycle LED bulbs) these LED H4 bulbs look like the dogs dangley bits.  They have a power supply that plugs into your normal 3 pin bulb plug and a heatsink (not a big fan assembly) that can be mounted two different ways depending on how much room behind reflector.  Unlike HID conversions these have two separate LED clusters that are positioned in same place as the filaments in a halogen bulb,  so beam pattern is retained.  I have ordered one for my motorbike,  will report on build quality and light output when it is fitted.

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlight-h4-motorcycle (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlight-h4-motorcycle)

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-160w-6000-lumen-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-160w-6000-lumen-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: rogbro on July 16, 2017, 07:19:49 PM
Yup Halfords own plus 130% headlight bulbs sure lite up the road, part No. 172290   H4 472.
They are still rated at 60/55W.  No comparison with the standard dim candles.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 25, 2017, 01:40:46 PM
Testing LED bulbs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQF5ESBHLrw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQF5ESBHLrw)

different styles of LED chips and heatsinks, including latest Philips chips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sonh4lHu4XE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sonh4lHu4XE)

both pretty long videos but well worth a look as they can save you making costly mistake. 

The only 'downside' of LED bulbs seems to be that because they do not produce infra-red in the huge quantities that incandescent bulbs do (wasted power) they will not melt ice and snow off the headlamp cover, but by the same token will not bake on the winter salt and also will not degrade the plastic of headlight and lens.  Because of increased efficiency of LED the saving in power is huge,  instead of 5 amps per bulb for filament type, LED only draw about 1 amp.

Remember when presenter talks about heat-sink temperatures he is American and using Fahrenheit scale,  so you can basically divide his temperature figure by 2 for Celsius.

The ones with the best beam patterns seem to use the Philips Luxeon Z-ES or Ultinon  LED packs,  which have a narrow group of small square LED chips (3 or 4 each side) running lengthwise down the bulb (same direction as the filament does) - the worst beam patterns are single bulbous Cree LEDs or round / square LED arrays (COB style).

I have just fitted a pair of H4 LED bulbs from classiccarleds.com to her indoors Jazz GE today (bulbs are beautifully well made,  with Phillips xtreme Ultinon chips - colour 6000K and claimed 3000lumen per bulb,  and as the LED strips are exactly same length and position as filaments in a bulb the beams should be legal,  unlike an HID bulb in a reflector designed for filament bulb,  and connectors are top notch) ,  will try to post photos of beam pattern, but will have to wait till it gets dark tonight.   Beam certainly looks nice and flat and tilted towards nearside (but garage door is white and sun is on it all afternoon,  so no good for pictures yet) - there is a dial on the bulb between the mounting and the body of bulb which you can twist - they recommend position 6 for LHD and 8 for RHD vehicles as a starter,  they came set on 8 anyway.  Bulbs don't have a fan,  just a screw-on passive heatsink on the back,  plenty of room for it on GE Jazz and plenty of fresh air round it.   Bulbs are £70 a pair but its nice to think I will never have to replace another headlight bulb (wish they had been around when we had GD Jazzes,  those are a pig to replace).  They are pure white, but will only see brightness tonight.

Apparently there are bulbs with cheap copies of Phillips LED chips on sale, attached is a picture I turned up.  The real chips have the wider resistor pack and colour of yellow chip is more even.  I have looked at the chips on the bulbs I bought and they look like the 'real'  ones,  the whole front part of the bulb looks exactly like the Philips made bulbs,  even the shape of the aluminium clamps and allen screws.

http://www.ledoauto.com/blog/index.php/2017/02/21/beware-of-fake-luxeon-zes-led-headlight-big-potential-danger-to-your-car/ (http://www.ledoauto.com/blog/index.php/2017/02/21/beware-of-fake-luxeon-zes-led-headlight-big-potential-danger-to-your-car/)

http://www.ledoauto.com/blog/index.php/2016/09/05/dear-our-esteem-clients/ (http://www.ledoauto.com/blog/index.php/2016/09/05/dear-our-esteem-clients/)


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Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest5770 on July 26, 2017, 07:09:14 PM
Would be very interested no know how the beam pattern works out. I spend about 5 months in France each year and if these let me avoid the horrible beam deflectors and give a proper illumination I would be ordering some pdq.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 26, 2017, 07:23:25 PM
Would be very interested no know how the beam pattern works out. I spend about 5 months in France each year and if these let me avoid the horrible beam deflectors and give a proper illumination I would be ordering some pdq.

@Hillhead

I think the way the bulb can be rotated in its holder is so that one single bulb design can be used in either a LHD or RHD reflector,  I am not sure what part the reflector design plays in the direction the light goes. 

To ask if the available adjustment of the bulb can be used to convert a RHD beam pattern to LHD can I suggest you contact classiccarleds.com,  they come back with information very quickly,  I have an email address (below),  otherwise use 'contact us' on their website.  Good luck............ hope it solves your problem.

lbfccars@gmail.com

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest1372 on July 26, 2017, 08:34:29 PM
.... if these let me avoid the horrible beam deflectors and give a proper illumination I would be ordering some pdq.
Comparing
UK (KE) http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TF0901&block_02=B__0800&block_03=21036&block_05=hcr (http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TF0901&block_02=B__0800&block_03=21036&block_05=hcr)
with
EU (KG) http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TF0901&block_02=B__0800&block_03=20970&block_05=hcr (http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TF0901&block_02=B__0800&block_03=20970&block_05=hcr)

.... the headlights have slightly different part numbers, that may be due to other differences but I feel it's probably their reflectors.
--
TG
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest5770 on July 26, 2017, 09:34:51 PM
Thanks both, I had a feeling that might be the case. I will email the company and post the response.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 26, 2017, 10:37:21 PM
Thanks both, I had a feeling that might be the case. I will email the company and post the response.

Attached is a 2 page PDF with photos of dip and main beam pattern.

As you can see dip has sharp cut-off and good spread of light - plenty of it on the nearside verge but also plenty of light (at a lower level so as not to dazzle oncoming vehicles) across to other side of road -  both dip and main are pretty awesome light output - dip is that good that main beam may not get used much.

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Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest5770 on July 27, 2017, 08:30:22 AM
Thanks, that it is most helpful.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 07, 2017, 07:30:37 PM
Just an update on my LED H4 headlight bulbs.

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/12-volt-collection/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v?variant=25760255303 (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/12-volt-collection/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v?variant=25760255303)

I have had a couple of occasion to drive my wifes Jazz GE at night with these new LED bulbs and I must say they make driving in the dark a lot more pleasant,  and I had already fitted Phillips X-Treme brite Xenon filament bulbs to her car soon after she got it to upgrade the lights,  but the LED's are way brighter and they seem to put a better spread of light on the road, plenty of light along nearside verge for traffic signs etc.  and a sharp vertical cut-off and lower level light across to offside verge.   Looking at amount of light on the road I thought I may be dazzling oncoming drivers,  but I parked the car on a quiet road with dipped beam on and walked down the road a bit and no dazzle,  also no-one has flashed me so far, so that says something.   Will try to take my camera next time I go out in dark and get some shots of the actual light on the road to post here,  but may be a day or two.

You can get other bulbs cheaper (and more expensive by the way check this site http://www.horizonleds.co.uk/5th-gen-4000-lumens/h4-5th-gen-4000-lumens (http://www.horizonleds.co.uk/5th-gen-4000-lumens/h4-5th-gen-4000-lumens)  ) but the vast majority of them have illegal beam pattern.  The bulbs I got have the Phillips Luxeon chip pack designed to exactly mimic the position, length and width of the filaments in a standard bulb, and having looked at Phillips bulbs they look identical in every detail, even down to shape of heatsink, but cheaper.

The only thing I had to check on the bulbs when i got them is if the body of bulb was rotated to position 8 on the dial (starting position for RHD vehicle) and locked down (allen keys supplied with bulbs) and they already were as delivered,  I changed nothing else on vehicle headlight alignment.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on August 07, 2017, 07:41:49 PM
I was really pleased with my headlamps. Found them even better than the Volvo's four lamp system. Garage adjusted them when it was in for its MOT and I have not been out in the dark since, so God only knows what they will be like now. (Other deities are available.)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 07, 2017, 07:46:55 PM
I was really pleased with my headlamps. Found them even better than the Volvo's four lamp system. Garage adjusted them when it was in for its MOT and I have not been out in the dark since, so God only knows what they will be like now. (Other deities are available.)

What sort of bulbs have you got ?
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on August 07, 2017, 08:34:51 PM
No idea. I'd have to dismantle half the front end to get at them! You don't change bulbs on a GD unless you absolutely must!!
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: jazzway on August 09, 2017, 03:29:50 AM
Those LEDs are very interesting and promising, culzean! Whenever our Osram Night Breakers quit shining i replace them by those LEDs. I only hope they are in a Dutch webshop by that time, now i can't find them. Philips = Dutch: how is that possible? ;)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 09, 2017, 08:14:15 AM
Those LEDs are very interesting and promising, culzean! Whenever our Osram Night Breakers quit shining i replace them by those LEDs. I only hope they are in a Dutch webshop by that time, now i can't find them. Philips = Dutch: how is that possible? ;)

Even in Holland you can order them from classiccarleds  - they are definitely the cheapest ones with the Phillips Luxeon chips I have found.  And I can vouch for the legal  beam pattern and brightness and they will definitely fit GE Jazz and still get the rubber bulb seal back on ( and from what I remember of the Jazz GD's we used to have they will easily fit that as well) and are adjustable for LHD and RHD vehicles  -  I would get them in plenty of time because by the time your filament lamp blows you will be driving around in the dark for a couple of days up to maybe a week while they get delivered to Holland (they are next day delivery in UK).  And some people will say the driver interferes with the radio, be assured it doesn't do it on my Civic or my wifes GE with FM radios  (it may interfere with a DAB radio but then a mouse sneezing a mile away will probably interfere with DAB).
Title: Headlights
Post by: jazzway on August 17, 2017, 04:53:35 PM
Those LEDs are very interesting and promising, culzean! Whenever our Osram Night Breakers quit shining i replace them by those LEDs. I only hope they are in a Dutch webshop by that time, now i can't find them. Philips = Dutch: how is that possible? ;)
... I would get them in plenty of time because by the time your filament lamp blows you will be driving around in the dark for a couple of days up to maybe a week while they get delivered to Holland (they are next day delivery in UK).  And some people will say the driver interferes with the radio, be assured it doesn't do it on my Civic or my wifes GE with FM radios  (it may interfere with a DAB radio but then a mouse sneezing a mile away will probably interfere with DAB).
I always have a spare set bulbs in the car, so i won't drive in the dark. ;) Hopefully they sell them in NL by the time the Osrams blow, otherwise i will order them in the UK.

We have FM radio and 64gb iPod connected on the usb, that's music enough, so we don't need DAB.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: JohnAlways on August 18, 2017, 12:15:22 PM
just a quick question in case I have the wrong end of the stick. Are these legal as a retrofit as I understood cars are given "Type Approval" with compulsory equipment like lights, brakes, emissions etc as per their specification as they appear on the dealers forecourts etc brand new. Changing the headlight bulbs to that not specified possibly changes the certification for the vehicle. I used to fit LED sidelight bulbs but back to the original 501's for MOT and then change back again. Whilst I like the idea of LED headlights as a retrofit would I again be changing them at MOT time and back again once passed? Am I likely to be stopped by an over zealous member of the constabulary and liable for prosecution / fixed penalty etc? Just a general question as I like to keep my car legal so the powers that be have no reason to take an interest in me. Can't have them finding the bodies in the boot!  8)  (Joke)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 18, 2017, 01:03:05 PM
Some LED aftermarket bulbs are as bad as HID and not legal for road use because the light source is not in the correct place in the reflector and they cause glare to other road users,  however the phillips luxeon chips are designed to exactly mimic the size and position of a filament bulb,  and take it from me I just fitted the LED bulbs from classiccarleds and the beam pattern is perfect,  with a sharp cut off.   I am leaving mine in for MOT and have absolutely no doubt they will be fine.  Having suffered a lot from dazzling illegal headlights during my long A and B road commute (before I retired LOL) I am painfully aware that I don't want to do the same to other drivers.  They are a useful upgrade to Jazz headlights and it is still possible to fit the rubber seal when they are installed,  I would not go back to filament bulbs,  even though I always used to fit best available ones.

have a look at the PDF photos of beam pattern I posted earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest5079 on August 18, 2017, 02:06:24 PM
I am surprised JohnAlways changed his LED sidelight bulbs back to 'normal' for his MOT. Our Jazz has been through 3 MOT's since I installed  led bulbs in the sidelights. Twice was through a Honda main dealer and the last through my local garage who tends to be a bit fierce with his MOT's. I did a quick look at prices when Culzean first posted about LED headlight bulbs but the price I am afraid will have to come down a bit first. Some were advertised at £130. I have the upgraded bulbs, I think they are Osram?????? Night something at the moment.
Good post by Culzean and very useful.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 20, 2017, 12:38:48 PM
I am surprised JohnAlways changed his LED sidelight bulbs back to 'normal' for his MOT. Our Jazz has been through 3 MOT's since I installed  led bulbs in the sidelights. Twice was through a Honda main dealer and the last through my local garage who tends to be a bit fierce with his MOT's. I did a quick look at prices when Culzean first posted about LED headlight bulbs but the price I am afraid will have to come down a bit first. Some were advertised at £130. I have the upgraded bulbs, I think they are Osram?????? Night something at the moment.
Good post by Culzean and very useful.

The bulbs on classiccarleds were the cheapest legal beam pattern (Phillips chips,  I checked LED chips with a magnifying glass and the fake ones have certain differences) ones I could find,  there are cheaper ones with single COB LED, SMD LED and other arrangements of LED etc but beam pattern on those is awful,  and although they boast fantastically high lumens if the light source is not in the correct place in the reflector the light is wasted or just annoys other road users - I have not been flashed yet (which is normally a good sign),  and as you say the genuine phillips are around £130 mark,  whereas mine cost £70 a pair free delivery.   I can vouch for light output and beam pattern and I certainly would not feel the need to remove them for MOT.    I was paying about £28 a pair for high output Phillips xenon filament bulbs anyway,  so £70 a pair did not seem excessive for a higher out put 'lifetime' bulb.

The links to LED bulb test videos I posted earlier in thread are about 30 minutes each,  but well worth a look.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest5079 on August 20, 2017, 03:23:15 PM
Thank you Culzean for the information. Certainly I will keep your info to hand but unfortunately as I do not do much night driving my Osrams will hopefully last a while.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 20, 2017, 04:06:21 PM
Thank you Culzean for the information. Certainly I will keep your info to hand but unfortunately as I do not do much night driving my Osrams will hopefully last a while.

All I can say is that I was loathe to drive my wifes Jazz around busy country roads after dark,  especially in rain - and some county councils don't bother with the white line along nearside verge (which is very useful when traffic coming the other way with headlights on) - Never minded in the Civic as headlights are better and on main beam both dip and main beams are lit up.  I don't mind driving her indoors Jazz after dark now after fitting the LED's - so if you think you lights are 'not quite good enough' and you avoid driving after dark (especially when traffic coming towards you can dazzle, especially as you get older) I would recommend the LED's.  The high output Phillips bulbs in the Jazz were not very old,  but they are now in the box that the LED's came in (up in the loft).
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: JohnAlways on August 21, 2017, 09:16:21 AM
Hi all. I decided to change back to standard filament 501 sidelight bulbs for MOT after I took the car in to Honda for service and the dealer mentioned it. Bulbs I think are like wiper blades, easy to check and replace as necessary and why risk an MOT failure. I do like the sound of the LED lights though and being easy to change! :)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 21, 2017, 09:45:18 AM
Hi all. I decided to change back to standard filament 501 sidelight bulbs for MOT after I took the car in to Honda for service and the dealer mentioned it. Bulbs I think are like wiper blades, easy to check and replace as necessary and why risk an MOT failure. I do like the sound of the LED lights though and being easy to change! :)

My wifes GE just sailed through its (dealer) MOT with the 'extra bright' LED sidelight bulbs in - they are so bright she uses them as DRL.   I think you may get knocked back if you had blue LED sidelights like some educationally  challenged individuals.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 25, 2017, 10:18:14 PM
Got some pics at last of LED (classiccarleds bulbs with Philips ZES chips) headlights in Jazz GE ( .PDF attached) - I did not have to alter headlight adjustment at all,  these bulbs just went straight in - be aware that there are cheaper LED bulbs around with different chips and the beam pattern can be awful (and illegal).

Bit of camera shake due to long exposure,  but it shows beam on dip and main,  when you look at pics the road is dipping away in front of car so dip beam looks a bit higher than it actually is ( I have never once been flashed), may get some better pics later but it is amazing that you don't see another car for ages but as soon as you stop to take a photo they magically appear from nowhere.

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Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on August 25, 2017, 10:34:58 PM
Hi culzean

Looks lovely

Please could I ask if your link to bulbs are the precise bulb I would need for a 2013 jazz si

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 26, 2017, 08:37:10 AM
Hi culzean

Looks lovely

Please could I ask if your link to bulbs are the precise bulb I would need for a 2013 jazz si

Many thanks

John

Yes you need the H4 type at £70 a pair

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/12-volt-collection/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v?variant=25760255303

I don't work for this company and have no connection ( I live in Shropshire, they are in Bristol),  but after first trying a single H4 bulb in my motorbike (to check beam pattern and quality), I then got a set of H4 bulbs for my wifes 2012 Si  and 2 off H1 (main) and 2 off H7 (dipped) bulbs for my Civic and having experienced their great customer service,  quick delivery and the solid quality of the product ( and believe me you can pay a lot more than £70 for bulbs with the ZES chips) I thought some other Jazz drivers would be interested in upgrading their lights (which I found to be a bit lacking, even with a good xenon filament bulb).  As you can see the LED throws a lot of light on both the nearside and offside verges,  the light quality, spread and beam cut-off all better than filament - they also perform well in the wet (where the old xenon bulb light used to disappear).

Just be aware that these bulbs will not melt the ice off your headlights in winter because they don't produce very much heat at the front end (just a lot of white light LOL),  the heat comes out the back of the bulb via the black finned heatsink,  which I have found runs at about 60 deg C (just a bit uncomfortable to touch).

Just make sure the rotation position of the bulb body to location pegs is in position 8 (as per  instructions with bulb as the position for RHD) - mine were delivered like this but I just checked and tightened the allen locking screw (a pair of allen keys are supplied - one for rotation lock and one for heatsink).

The only extra thing I did was pop to Maplin and get a syringe of non-setting thermal grease / paste to smear on the heat-sink threads and as well as aiding heat transfer I am confident it will stop any corrosion between bulb thread and heat-sink thread.  You only need a very small amount but if it gets on your fingers it goes a long, long way and quite difficult to remove - after the first encounter I used thin vinyl gloves for the rest - I did also put a bit of silicone grease on the threads of the 4 pin screw plug as well,  as I found that these can quite difficult to unscrew later ( after initial trial of bulb I unscrewed heat-sink to put original Honda rubber sealing collar back on light bulbs)  - especially if they have heat-sink grease on the thread LOL (the 4 pin connector has to be fed through centre of heatsink and it is a neat fit,  so impossible not to get paste on it),  but because the female threaded collar is flexible you can kind of 'push' them off the thread with your thumbnail without damaging them.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on August 26, 2017, 10:24:25 AM
Hi culzean

Many thanks and just ordered them

I am not sure how they fit into headlight (i.e. do you fit everything inside so the rubber covers it)

Also, which is better for the heatsink position - small like original bulb or as the picture shows at end of bulb

Sorry if I am not explaining very well

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 26, 2017, 10:47:14 AM
Hi culzean

Many thanks and just ordered them

I am not sure how they fit into headlight (i.e. do you fit everything inside so the rubber covers it)

Also, which is better for the heatsink position - small like original bulb or as the picture shows at end of bulb

Sorry if I am not explaining very well

Many thanks

John

The plug in 'ballast' module (actually a constant current driver as LEDs work on current not voltage) fits outside the headlamp housing (they supply a pack of nylon cable ties in the box to attach it to something close by - will try to post some pictures of installation) - what you do is unscrew heat-sink (make sure the little allen grub screw is slackened off first though,  I found out the hard way it wasn't when I first tried to unscrew heat-sink   :-[  ).   You need to unscrew heatsink completely and remove to locate the bulb in the holder ( the widest 'key' on the location array faces vertically upwards, same as original bulb did) and get the original spring clip over and into position) - now refit the rubber sealing grommet and screw the heat-sink back on with the largest finned diameter furthest from bulb (to clear rubber seal) if you want to use locking allen grub screw it helps to put a bit of white paint  / or scratch black coating off on heat-sink fin that lines up with allen screw,  then you can find it easier when heat-sink / bulb in position - (but don't worry I just screwed heatsink back on hand tight and didn't tighten the screw on mine and it wont come unscrewed).

There is an actual mile of room around and behind the back of headlamp on the GE and I found it a doddle to fit the bulbs.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on August 26, 2017, 11:25:41 AM
Hi culzean

Many thanks, much appreciated

If I have time when I fit mine, I'll take some photos but your description really helps

Once again, many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on August 29, 2017, 02:18:12 PM
Hi culzean

The lights arrived this morning and thanks to you, were easy to fit (I think as long as long as I have fit them correctly)

I did not think there were much room behind the headlights, as trying to get the spring clip back on was hard, and the very little locking nut on the black heat sink, I could not see, so did as you have, hand tighten them

I hope others find this useful and just waiting for darkness to arrive, to see how they look

Many thanks

John

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/7e467643cdf5877b37b5679858dd32cf.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/c6ef0213fbc066a29929ca048bbff113.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/fa445e5d19576a8ed4ef620b2edd6ce2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/e57f0168f5d2865be0bd559c27aaf47d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/8961bd662b17a918b5fdbe638cb09014.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/d08ae0babbf773e91c03f4e606715f9e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/54e3f428c4824988a5fd6fc5ad17f3d3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/bf29aeb53f282c93fc852934eba2d604.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/67e81866d9b0858c5af694a67a019244.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/16a3707235b448265094177666ab4ffe.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/e8ecb49e573983f520a5c553f6d0b45d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170829/2f0ea269af333e9e1c6a26aea69e29e5.jpg)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 29, 2017, 07:20:03 PM
Looks good,  I don't think you will be disappointed  :D

I drive around with mine on in the daytime,  If there is going to be a problem I want it to show up in daytime,  and unlike filament bulbs LED don't wear out (they may well outlive me  ::) )

Hi culzean
I did not think there were much room behind the headlights, as trying to get the spring clip back on was hard,

Trust me. if you had ever owned a GD Jazz you would think there was a football field of room behind the headlight on the GE,  and relieved you didn't have to take half the car apart just to get to rear of the bulb.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: JohnAlways on August 30, 2017, 09:02:18 AM
I think we could do with a "Like" button on here.
Culzean's comment is spot on.
Thankfully I and two son's now only have GE's!
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: RichardA on September 08, 2017, 01:51:54 PM
I think we could do with a "Like" button on here.

You can use the Thanks option above each post in most forums.

The new version of the forum software we use has a like button.

Sent from my GT-S7500 using Tapatalk 2

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on September 11, 2017, 02:29:50 PM
Hi

I hope you don't mind, as I was pleased with the headlights, I bought the sidelights and fog lights LEDs

I spoke with Duncan and he was very helpful, so was easy to buy and fit

Many thanks

John

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/7b9f56cfa2c66c65e73f2413ae305fb2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/ef8d14315cda036acb7c23e6d24dbc44.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/c2319049eef4f4ef236202932705c757.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/61e6057d2931705db9b0caf0f6673671.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/103950d567153093f0387156a242ddfa.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/8a67a5326193bbd7457795bfcf58e046.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/5707fc3d410da3a959bcfb0a74941680.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/f25712486e80863ff9eb1365d17e6e86.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170911/162fd3227d536e0261dca76a1076bda4.jpg)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on September 11, 2017, 02:44:05 PM
Wow,  glad you are happy with the products - I have bought some real dodgy LED bulbs in the past that have not been very bright and did not last long  !!

I thought about LED foglight H11 bulbs, but as they never get used would have been a waste.

Have used the H4 LED headlights quite a few times now in all weathers,  and am very glad I decided to fit them as they are a big improvement on filament bulbs, even when the expensive xenon high output Philips and Osram etc were fitted.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: 123Drive! on September 25, 2017, 01:33:05 AM
Been using Philips Crystal Vision for two years and seems ok. Shame the two small parking light bulb is not that white as they claim to be.

I use Philips Racing Vision 150% on my other car, Seat Ibiza which are bright.

Eurocarparts do offers often. I found it easy to put them on the 2009 Jazz.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on October 02, 2017, 05:37:35 PM
Update on LED headlight bulbs,  on holiday in Cornwall ( Lizard ) for a couple of weeks (just starting second week) and driving round narrow Cornish roads in the dark, so glad I fitted the LED headlight bulbs, take the stress out of night driving, no one has flashed me yet either.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: John Ratsey on October 02, 2017, 09:01:47 PM
Update on LED headlight bulbs,  on holiday in Cornwall ( Lizard ) for a couple of weeks (just starting second week) and driving round narrow Cornish roads in the dark, so glad I fitted the LED headlight bulbs, take the stress out of night driving, no one has flashed me yet either.
After following the discussion here I put the same H4 LED bulbs in my HR-V. They are a very big improvement compared to Osram Night Breaker bulbs I had put into replace the standard candles. While my eyes are still troubled by the glare from oncoming lights I can now see my side of the road. And the main beam is like turning on floodlights.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on October 02, 2017, 09:13:58 PM
After following the discussion here I put the same H4 LED bulbs in my HR-V. They are a very big improvement compared to Osram Night Breaker bulbs I had put into replace the standard candles. While my eyes are still troubled by the glare from oncoming lights I can now see my side of the road. And the main beam is like turning on floodlights.

Glad to hear you are happy with the LED bulbs, did you have to adjust headlight alignment ? I found the beam was great without touching anything.  The main thing I found was that I have much more light on the nearside verge, which makes night driving much easier. Main beam is pretty good, the whiter light seems to pick out things better.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on October 02, 2017, 09:29:53 PM
Hi culzean

Plus 1 for me. I definitely would not be going back to old bulbs.

One thing I have noticed, other car drivers now seem to see my car better then before, in terms of not pulling out on me or they move over more when approaching if you see what I mean. Previously, it was as though they never saw me or they didn't care I was there

Once again, many thanks for starting this thread. Best money I ever spent I think

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: John Ratsey on October 03, 2017, 10:52:23 AM
Glad to hear you are happy with the LED bulbs, did you have to adjust headlight alignment ? I found the beam was great without touching anything.  The main thing I found was that I have much more light on the nearside verge, which makes night driving much easier. Main beam is pretty good, the whiter light seems to pick out things better.
I've so far found no need for any adjustment.  They are well worth the money for anyone who finds night driving hard on the eyes.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on October 04, 2017, 10:35:16 AM
One nice side effect of LED headlight bulbs is my headlight covers stay a lot cleaner, may be partly due to my regular waxing of headlight plastic, but I have done that for many years, the improvement I have seen lately seems mainly to be that  the General road  grunge, splattered insects  and mud does not get dried and baked on because there is hardly any heat from the LED bulb 'front end' the heat comes out of rear of bulb via the heatsink.

Unfortunately I also expect, come winter that any frost and ice may not get melted off the headlight cover, don't know how much of a problem it may be, but will soon find out.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest5079 on October 04, 2017, 11:35:01 AM
I am at the moment awaiting a decision about PPI.  If I am successful I might be able to ague the cost of the LED bulbs. Unfortunately, I have only recently renewed the headlamp bulbs and  although I am NOT subject to petticote government, my Wife quite  rightly, given that money is not that freely available might feel the £70 is not justifiable.
We shall see!!!!!!
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on October 04, 2017, 11:44:39 AM
Hi culzean

Plus 1 for me. I definitely would not be going back to old bulbs.

One thing I have noticed, other car drivers now seem to see my car better then before, in terms of not pulling out on me or they move over more when approaching if you see what I mean. Previously, it was as though they never saw me or they didn't care I was

That is the reason I fitted the LED bulb to my motorbike before I bought ones for our cars, to try one out and because the whiter light is more visible in daylight ( the headlight on bike is on all the time ignition comes on ), you become very aware of  value of your lights when you ride a motorbike, they can literally save your life with extra visibility to other road users.

I am far more likely to drive car with dipped beams on during the day now that I know there is no 'wearing out' of filament involved, and also the current drawn by headlights is now a couple of amps instead of 10, so easier on electrical system.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: jazzway on October 14, 2017, 09:12:47 PM
Last week one of our Jazz's headlight bulb died, almost 2 years after i replaced the standard bulbs with the Osram Night Breaker Unlimited. I talked with a friend about the LEDs in this topic and he said they are not road legal. I didn't give up so fast and did a search on the internet..., but he was right. :( Exterior aftermarket LED bulbs are for off road use only!

Because i don't want to risk a €150 traffic ticket i bought legal halogen bulbs again: Osram Night Breaker Laser, 2x H4 for €21.95. Today i replaced both bulbs and although i liked the former night breakers very much, these are even better!

Am i too good to follow this law... maybe. ;D
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on October 14, 2017, 09:41:20 PM
Found this info from GEM, dated this year (a lot of info is a couple of years old).
https://www.motoringassist.com/motoring-advice/news/fit-led-lighting-car-legally/ (https://www.motoringassist.com/motoring-advice/news/fit-led-lighting-car-legally/)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: jazzway on October 14, 2017, 10:08:21 PM
I also found the article above.

First i found some Dutch recent articles and also some NL webshop even write "for off road use only" when you look at a LED bulb description.


https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/pages/terms-and-conditions (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/pages/terms-and-conditions)
Also these Leds: read 2.6.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on October 15, 2017, 08:18:50 AM
I also found the article above.

First i found some Dutch recent articles and also some NL webshop even write "for off road use only" when you look at a LED bulb description.


https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/pages/terms-and-conditions (https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/pages/terms-and-conditions)
Also these Leds: read 2.6.

That is just an ars£ covering phrase inserted by lawyers - I had looked at loads of HID (definitely illegal and very dazzling in a reflector designed for filament bulbs) and early LED bulbs which used round, square in fact any shape of chip which did not give a legal beam pattern,   but then Phillips got in on the act and developed their luxeon ZE-S chips, which are same size and shape as  filament and in exactly same position.  I have not once been flashed and have encountered many police vehicles. I tested the beam pattern against original filament bulb on my motorbike before buying for cars, and cut off and control of stray light is better with the LED than filament.   Problem is with hid conversion and early generation LED they were just too bright and beam pattern was just totally illegal as they sprayed light in all directions.  I will gladly risk a fine for the better light of the LED as it actually puts more light on near side verge and sharper beam,  I will not be taking them out for MOT either.


IMHO most of the headlights on your typical German staff car are so dazzling as to be illegal, but that is just my experience of many miles driving on average UK  'B' roads with them both behind and approaching from the front.

I still see more than a few vehicles driving around with obviously illegal HID and maybe older cheapo LED headlight conversions,  If they don't get pulled over I am 100% happy that I don't need to worry.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on October 15, 2017, 12:51:15 PM
But what the regulations actually states is that the light unit must be certified for the use of LEDs to be legal, not just the LED bulb in it! What that means is, every vehicle you see on the road, where the owner has fitted LED number plate lights or sidelights, technically fail Whole Vehicle Type Approval and as such are no longer covered by insurance! That is something that would take a team of lawyers forever to sort out.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest1372 on October 15, 2017, 01:14:57 PM
I think this only becomes an issue if you make an issue of yourself, by driving like an idiot or hanging out in car parks on a Saturday night or otherwise drawing attention to yourself.  But the dazzling car behind me this week (over bright lights with a sharp cut off that made it look a full beam flash over every bump plus DRL's still on at 11pm) was asking to be pulled over.  After encouraging it to overtake me I could not even read the number plate as it's LEDs were too bright so it was just washed out in two pools of light.  Was a 10+ year old Vectra so definitely not type approved for LEDs.

There is something to be said for improving a Mk1/GD headlight, but I'm not certain that LEDS are it; they have their place, like my trailer where vibration destroys filaments and Jazz rear lamp wiring is minimum size and not designed for double the expected load.

I have only changed one bulb in 15 years - the rear cabin light when the end fell off.
--
TG
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on October 15, 2017, 01:27:17 PM
I find my GD headlights excellent. They are actually better than the four light system on my S20.

(https://i.imgur.com/2ghB96q.jpg)
Title: Headlights
Post by: jazzway on October 15, 2017, 03:29:23 PM
You are completely right, Culzean, those LEDs you have bought are good, i don't doubt on that! But it is like i wrote in post #52, aftermarket. The law says using LEDs external in a light unit for halogen is not road legal. Is that a stupid law? Maybe.

And although i am not drawing attention to myself in driving or hanging out on car parkings, i don't take the risk. Police here in the south of the Netherlands has regularly other priorities than catching real criminals or idiots on the road.

Maybe with the GD Jazz, which is what i have heard a PIA to change a bulb, i would consider to take the risk with LEDs because they live much longer. However with the GG model we have it is as much as 5 minutes work.

The Osram Night Breakers (Unlimited and Laser) halogen bulbs are giving excellent white light, with the Lasers even brighter, whiter and a longer beam. And if that means that with our kilometrage the bulbs lifespan is about 2 years and that costs me €22 (£20), so be it.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Le_Brun on October 24, 2017, 07:35:23 PM
Need replacement headlights for my GE8, where is the best place to buy?
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: 123Drive! on October 25, 2017, 11:47:58 PM
I use Eurocarparts when they offer a discount.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on December 21, 2017, 08:08:17 PM
Whilst still mulling over whether I should take the plunge and buy some LED bulbs, I thought I would try and measure the output of  the various halogen bulbs that I have collected over the years.

I managed to find an App which would load onto my Ipad to create a photographic lightmeter. The idea was to try the various rated bulbs and measure the difference. I had in stock bulbs with Std, +120%, +130% and more recently +150% ratings, all of Halfords manufacture.

The results  turned out to be somewhat surprising, in that, whilst there was a difference between the Std bulb and the others, there was no real difference between the other 3 types. This was generally because the light 'hotspot' occurred in slightly different positions, making comparison difficult.

I maintain the the +150% bulb should effectively give 3 times the light of a Std bulb. I know there are others that dispute that logic and i would the question, what would a bulb claiming to give +50% extra give?
Again in my view 1/2 as much again as Std. and +100% twice a Std bulb. However I do accept that this procedure is not entirely scientific, but perhaps it's a bit more accurate than the Mk1 eyeball!!
Iv'e also read somewhere that there are variations between bulbs that are supposedly the same rating.

The net result of all this is, I decided to stay with the +130% bulb, as the 'Hotspot' on dipped beam, was a bit closer to the kerb, making it easier to see.

The only reason I have not yet changed to LED bulbs, is the concern regarding the legality of them for normal use and what the insurance view would be, should there be an incident in the future, maybe our insurance member might like to comment.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on December 21, 2017, 08:38:18 PM
Light output is a square root function, so you have to produce 4 times the lumens to double the brightness. Add to that the fact that the eyes are not linear either and perceived light is not always what you think it is.
I worked in the optical industry for a number of years and it is amazing how "clear" a 50% transmitter (coated glass) is. Clear window glass lets through about 85%, double glazing even less, and triple glazing about 74%. And the merest hint of dirt on your headlamp lenses can half the measured light output!
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on December 22, 2017, 10:13:38 AM
As I said just now, all of my bulbs of various rating, are made by Halfords.
I would welcome opinions as to whether bulbs by other makers are any better or worse than these and if better, then why?
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on December 22, 2017, 11:01:23 AM
As I said just now, all of my bulbs of various rating, are made by Halfords.
I would welcome opinions as to whether bulbs by other makers are any better or worse than these and if better, then why?

I have used Halfords, Philips and Osram xx% brighter offerings mainly in the past ( I have LED bulbs now, much better than all of them).   Generally I found Philips to have best beam pattern, Osram to be ever-so slightly brighter but more scattered light and Halfords to be pretty OK, especially when on offer 2 for 1 or similar.   Due to mileage I used to cover (much of it in dark at each end of the day on twisty country  'B' roads) I used to replace higher output bulbs every year,  I found from experience I could get possibly 15 to 18 (max) months out of the higher output bulbs but didn't want the hassle of driving with one light out and maybe having to buy a cheap bulb as an emergency fix.  In the case of  Jazz GD I would rather replace the bulb on a nice sunny summers day on our drive than in snow or rain in the winter (who wouldn't).

The Philips chipped LED I have now are better than all of them, with brighter, whiter light and a more usable beam pattern that shines more on the nearside verge and helps when other vehicles approaching (when centre white line is of little use)  would not willingly go back to filament bulbs now (as a side effect I am hoping lower heat from LED keeps headlamp plastic from going cloudy).
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: John A on December 22, 2017, 11:44:25 AM
The Philips chipped LED I have now are better than all of them, with brighter, whiter light and a more usable beam pattern that shines more on the nearside verge and helps when other vehicles approaching (when centre white line is of little use)  would not willingly go back to filament bulbs now (as a side effect I am hoping lower heat from LED keeps headlamp plastic from going cloudy).

Do the LED bulbs produce enough radiation / heat to keep the headlight lens free of ice / snow?
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on December 22, 2017, 11:54:01 AM
Do the LED bulbs produce enough radiation / heat to keep the headlight lens free of ice / snow?

Jury still out on that one,  I drove in recent snow OK (while it was still snowing and lenses stayed clear),  but these days ( :D ) I do not get out and about anywhere nearly as early as I used to in winter so haven't really had to find out ( I tend to clear frost and snow off headlights manually anyway).

If we are due another frost I will set the alarm (if I can find it) to wake me up and try an experiment...

One effect of lower heat output is that salty mush in winter and summer insects do not get baked onto headlights.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest1372 on December 22, 2017, 12:09:07 PM
Well there's a limit to the output of a bulb if it's road legal no matter what it's called. *

The spread and output is controlled by regulation so I would assume that they all aim to meet this standard rather than fall way beneath it.  I fitted a pair of Nightbreaker 130% this year and they are pretty much the same as the Honda originals which had started to deteriorate.  The cup behind the filament was slightly smaller which seemed to create a more intense line at the dipped cut off point when against a garage door but they don't seem to illuminate the road more or further.  The only difference was the Nightbreaker had a blue coating which may filter out some of the warmer tones from the output, although I can't see it on the road surface.  One reason for spending twice the price on these rather than a standard bulb from ECP was the potential short lifetime of a cheap bulb - the originals did 15 years.

Anyway - what's the 130% compared to and how?
--
TG

* Dazzler extreme plus nitro 400% ultimate  vs.  Standard H4 bulb

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on December 22, 2017, 12:29:11 PM
http://betterautomotivelighting.com/2017/02/20/the-difference-between-lux-and-lumen-what-is-brightness/

Useful article that shows the difference between lumens (bulb output) and lux (how well the light is used for illumination). 

If you look at GEN2 bulb with the square LED pattern, it should be obvious that it is never going to make a good beam pattern in a filament reflector because the light source is nowhere near the same shape as a filament,  look at the GEN3 bulb LED chips and beam pattern and you will see the LED chips are getting closer to the Philips Z-ES chips - and the beam pattern is really good.

If you look back to 'headlights' thread   https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8738.0   there are some youtube videos on there (page 1) from 'headlight revolution' showing clear difference with various styles of LED bulb between 'lumens' and 'lux' and they found Philips chipped bulbs to give by far the most effective beam pattern (although their output in 'lumens' was far lower than some of the bulbs that had proper illegal beam patterns which claimed stupid lumen figures).  There are also pictures of my wifes Jazz GE headlights on the garage door ( I have attached PDF again) and  they make filament bulbs look very yellow indeed,  and the 'hotspot' is larger and more uniform in 'lux'..

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on January 09, 2018, 11:59:45 AM
In previous posts there has been the suggestion that insurance companies, may take a dim view of changing Jazz headlights to LED operation.

So, I contacted the agent for my insurance company (National Farmers Union) this morning, to check whether there would be any problem with changing my headlight bulbs, from the normal filament to LED types. The agent was initially not sure, so has checked with the underwriters.

She has just phoned back to say, the the insurance company does not need to know about this change.

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on January 20, 2018, 10:30:41 AM
Have finally taken the plunge and purchased a pair of LED headlight together with the matching sidelights.

The initial installation went well although there did appear to be some surplus light radiating above the cut-off line, on dipped beam, particularly on the LH light. However a quick call to Duncan soon sorted it, he suggested that it was either poor location in the light unit or wrong setting of the adjustment on the bulb itself. The normal setting for RH drive is 8, but i found that this had moved, presumably during installation to around 9.5. The was quickly reset and all is now well.

So. for anyone fitting these lights, they are set to 8 as delivered, but just make sure that the locking grub screw is tight before installing.
I'm currently running with the in-car headlight adjuster set to 1 rather than 0 just to ensure that I don't offend anyone, so far so good and i am well pleased with their performance.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on January 20, 2018, 01:34:33 PM
Have finally taken the plunge and purchased a pair of LED headlight together with the matching sidelights.

The initial installation went well although there did appear to be some surplus light radiating above the cut-off line, on dipped beam, particularly on the LH light. However a quick call to Duncan soon sorted it, he suggested that it was either poor location in the light unit or wrong setting of the adjustment on the bulb itself. The normal setting for RH drive is 8, but i found that this had moved, presumably during installation to around 9.5. The was quickly reset and all is now well.

So. for anyone fitting these lights, they are set to 8 as delivered, but just make sure that the locking grub screw is tight before installing.
I'm currently running with the in-car headlight adjuster set to 1 rather than 0 just to ensure that I don't offend anyone, so far so good and i am well pleased with their performance.

Well done - don't think you will regret it - especially as you will not need to buy another headlight bulb and won't have the problem of a bulb blowing at a bad time.

After driving with them fitted for about 6 months now I would not be without them. Due to the extra light output and worrying about dazzle when I first had them I used to run Civic with headlamp adjuster on 1 as well just to make certain sure I was not dazzling drivers, recently I did actually physically adjust the dip beam (separate dip and main on Civic) down very slightly and moved the adjuster back to '0'.  On my wifes Jazz GE they have always been OK with headlamp adjuster set to '0' (apparently MOT tester should check beam with leveling adjuster on '0',  but don't know if they do).
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on January 23, 2018, 11:33:52 AM
Just put Civic through MOT (with LED bulbs fitted),  passed OK but apparently new VOSA rules from March 2018 mean that any aftermarket LED headlight bulb fitted will be a fail.  This is even though the beam pattern is better and much better light output ?  I asked the MOT guy why and he said 'VOSA people don't drive cars they all ride around on pushbikes' - Oh well,  looks like putting cheap filament bulbs in for MOT next time, it is a pretty easy job anyway except on GD Jazz..

If you compare beam pattern and light on my wifes jazz (photos attached a few post up,  and beam and light on TG photos a few posts up it is like chalk and cheese) - I wonder if testers have been having problems with weird dazzling beam patterns on cheap LED bulbs and just tarred then all with the same brush, even the Philips ones.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest1372 on January 23, 2018, 12:23:40 PM
.... but apparently new VOSA rules from March 2018 mean that any aftermarket LED headlight bulb fitted will be a fail. 
Can they be seen as LED through the lens?  As a tester can't move anything like the grommet on the back of the headlamp, I'd have thought it may be difficult to detect in daylight.  Aftermarket HID / Xenon often fail MOT because they don't have automatic levelling and washers, it seems this may also apply to some LED conversions. 

Although this is from a couple of years ago, it seems to be the relevant guidance note: http://www.partinfo.co.uk/files/MOT Changes - Lighting.pdf (http://www.partinfo.co.uk/files/MOT%20Changes%20-%20Lighting.pdf)

"The Department for Transport considers that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp cleaning and self-levelling systems. ....

Headlamp washing and levelling systems are mandatory for all vehicles fitted with LED headlamp systems, ...."


Maybe the interpretation of 'LED headlamp system' has now been clarified further to include any LED bulb.
--
TG
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest4871 on January 23, 2018, 01:07:20 PM
If you compare beam pattern and light on my wifes jazz (photos attached a few post up,  and beam and light on TG photos a few posts up it is like chalk and cheese) - I wonder if testers have been having problems with weird dazzling beam patterns on cheap LED bulbs and just tarred then all with the same brush, even the Philips ones.

It may be not to do with beam pattern or dazzle as such but residual glare from very white light. The light is very good  for the driver of the car but it is a pain to drive against a long line of cars emitting harsh (but not dazzling) white LED light.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on January 23, 2018, 04:36:54 PM
If you compare beam pattern and light on my wifes jazz (photos attached a few post up,  and beam and light on TG photos a few posts up it is like chalk and cheese) - I wonder if testers have been having problems with weird dazzling beam patterns on cheap LED bulbs and just tarred then all with the same brush, even the Philips ones.

It may be not to do with beam pattern or dazzle as such but residual glare from very white light. The light is very good  for the driver of the car but it is a pain to drive against a long line of cars emitting harsh (but not dazzling) white LED light.

Plenty of expensive German staff cars on our roads with very dazzling OEM lights, VOSA should be checking those.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on July 04, 2018, 08:22:36 AM
Hi

I hope you don’t mind me adding to this old thread but our jazz has just pasted its mot with the LED bulbs fitted

I informed the testing garage that LED bulbs were fitted (pointed out these are not HID), and I could replace the bulbs with halogen bulbs if needed.

The garage went to check and said if the beam pattern and light intensity and only white light colour when put on beam tester pass, then it’s legal. If any one of those fail, it’s a fail on mot

So I’m pleased not to have to mess around changing bulbs and thought I’d share my experience from yesterday

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 04, 2018, 08:34:10 AM
Hi

I hope you don’t mind me adding to this old thread but our jazz has just pasted its mot with the LED bulbs fitted

I informed the testing garage that LED bulbs were fitted (pointed out these are not HID), and I could replace the bulbs with halogen bulbs if needed.

The garage went to check and said if the beam pattern and light intensity and only white light colour when put on beam tester pass, then it’s legal. If any one of those fail, it’s a fail on mot

So I’m pleased not to have to mess around changing bulbs and thought I’d share my experience from yesterday

Many thanks

John

No problem reviving old threads with important information.

Many thanks for sharing your MOT experience John my wifes Jazz has exactly the same bulbs as your car, you have reassured me (and maybe other on the forum who bought the bulbs and some who were thinking about it  :-X ) that the beam pattern and light are acceptable ( which both you and I already knew anyway as they are a philips design and mimic a filament build with LED size and positioning).
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest7288 on July 23, 2018, 05:11:08 PM
Rather than go back and work out which bulbs you are refering to, can you please say which LEDs these are that passed.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 23, 2018, 06:35:12 PM
Rather than go back and work out which bulbs you are refering to, can you please say which LEDs these are that passed.

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=9942.msg57740#msg57740

My wifes Jazz MK2 Si passed MOT last month as well.

If I were you I would go back through the thread as there is some advice and some excellent pictures from d2d4j on fitting them (pretty easy on MK2,  bit of a pain on MK1 but then fitting any headlight bulb on MK - main thing to remember when presenting bulb to the back of headlight reflector is that there are 3 ears on the bulb and the widest one of the 3 points vertically upwards to align bulb to its location easily.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest7288 on July 29, 2018, 05:05:31 PM
Thank you and I did find it a tight fit when I fitted these LEDs. Tricky to get hands behind the unit.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 29, 2018, 07:40:40 PM
Thank you and I did find it a tight fit when I fitted these LEDs. Tricky to get hands behind the unit.

You won't really use headlights much in summer but do come back and let us know how you get on with them.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on January 24, 2019, 04:56:37 PM
Just adding to this thread to keep everything together.

After the MOT tester at local Honda informed me last February ( 2018) MOT that the LED headlight bulbs in my Civic would fail in future due to new regs I have just put the car in for MOT again this year at another MOT place ( cheaper as well).  The car was still fitted with H7 LED ( dipped beam) same as last year and it passed no problem with no comments or advisories... so much for grumblebum at Honda....

Here are the bulbs,  there are some newer ones available with flat copper braid cooling to replace the round heatsink on the ones I bought - means they can be tucked in and no heatsink to stick out.  The round heatsink is not a problem on Jazz MK1 and MK2 as the heatsink sits outside the rubber cover on rear of headlight but on the Civic it has a plastic clip on cover and the heatsink is trapped inside the headlight housing,  the braid ones would suit much better...

H7 ( dipped beam for civic led bulbs with fanless heatsink – I have had these for 18 months +)
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/led-headlight-conversion-bulbs-h7-4600-lumen-philips-z-es-main-dipped-glb477

H7 ( dipped beam for Civic led bulbs with copper braid cooling – newer type).
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/pair-of-compact-canbus-led-headlight-bulbs-h7-4600-lumen-main-dipped-glb477?variant=5425551147037

H4 led bulbs for Jazz
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/latest-led-headlights-h4-philips-z-es-hi-lo-beam-conversion-9-32v

extension leads from constant current unit to bulb ( if required )
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/headlight-led-bulbs/products/h1-h3-h4-h7-led-headlight-remote-mounting-leads-for-ic-units


Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on February 27, 2019, 09:09:56 PM
Hi

I hope you do not mind me adding to this thread, but on Sunday we were driving back in the fog and as we have a dashcam, it showed the LED lights.  So I will let you decide for yourself over the beam - dipped

The picture maybe a little grainy as I took a screenshot capture from playback

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on February 28, 2019, 02:58:18 PM
Hi

I hope you do not mind me adding to this thread, but on Sunday we were driving back in the fog and as we have a dashcam, it showed the LED lights.  So I will let you decide for yourself over the beam - dipped

The picture maybe a little grainy as I took a screenshot capture from playback

Many thanks

John

Yup - that is what I love about the classiccarled LED bulbs, they put more light on the verge, which is where you need it.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on May 07, 2019, 04:20:28 PM
My motorbike passed its first MOT today and it had the classiccarleds H4 headlight bulb fitted,  never even mentioned by tester.

Looks as though the beam pattern and brightness is perfectly acceptable to their headlight testing machine..
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: sparky Paul on May 07, 2019, 08:22:09 PM
.... if these let me avoid the horrible beam deflectors and give a proper illumination I would be ordering some pdq.
Comparing
UK (KE) http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TF0901&block_02=B__0800&block_03=21036&block_05=hcr (http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TF0901&block_02=B__0800&block_03=21036&block_05=hcr)
with
EU (KG) http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TF0901&block_02=B__0800&block_03=20970&block_05=hcr (http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TF0901&block_02=B__0800&block_03=20970&block_05=hcr)

.... the headlights have slightly different part numbers, that may be due to other differences but I feel it's probably their reflectors.
--
TG

Standard halogen or xenon headlamps are indeed different for LHD/RHD, both RHD headlamp beam patterns kick up to the left, and LHD ones kick up to the right. This is by design of the reflector (and glass beam deflectors on older headlights) and cannot be changed.

The only cars which can be swapped over without changing the headlamps are those with projector type lamps, the type with a single motorised lens which can change beam pattern as necessary. Our Vauxhall with adaptive lighting can be swapped over from RHD to LHD beam pattern and back in a few seconds.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: John Ratsey on May 07, 2019, 09:14:02 PM
My motorbike passed its first MOT today and it had the classiccarleds H4 headlight bulb fitted,  never even mentioned by tester.
I can also add that my HR-V fitted with those bulbs passed its MOT without any comment.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: milkfloat on May 08, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
I'd agree, at the moment, they are not testing for "lumens" per se it's more for pattern.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on May 08, 2019, 09:56:00 AM
I'd agree, at the moment, they are not testing for "lumens" per se it's more for pattern.

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/the-mot-headlamp-aim-test-is-changing/

Seems new rules were introduced in 2016 to check for proper beam pattern and alignment and beam height and 'dazzle zone'.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 15, 2019, 11:25:23 AM
Just to mention my wifes mk2 just passed its MOT again, the second one with the classiccarleds.co.uk H4 LED bulbs fitted, also had LED sidelight and reversing light bulbs fitted.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Steve1962 on July 28, 2019, 09:00:23 AM
Many thanks to Culzean in particular for the information regarding LED bulbs - am considering getting some for my 2011 Jazz, and in particular for my wife's  2014 Suzuki SX4.

Steve
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on July 28, 2019, 09:05:18 AM
As long as you are aware that they are illegal for road use in the UK.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on July 28, 2019, 09:34:41 AM
Hi

Like culzean, our jazz passed mot again without any issues on led lights. All front lights are led and again, I told mot garage it was fitted with led lights

When I fitted the led, I informed our insurance company and they made a note, or said they had but did not change anything on insurance

I have never been flashed by other road users

I have also fitted additional led DRL which now have flowing indicators. They are positioned between the top of the light cluster and bonnet

If I have any free time, I will post a small video

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Steve1962 on July 28, 2019, 10:23:42 AM
As long as you are aware that they are illegal for road use in the UK.

Thanks Jocko.

I'm going to speak to the garage who do my MOT's and servicing before deciding about the purchase.
We live in a very rural area with little or no street lighting so this would definitely be a worthwhile modification to do.


I'll keep you posted, and thanks to all for the input on this subject.

Cheers
Steve

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 28, 2019, 11:24:09 AM
As long as you are aware that they are illegal for road use in the UK.

The problems with fitting 'non-standard' bulbs were down to people fitting H4 HID bulbs in reflectors designed for filament bulbs,  the totally different light source and the fact most of them moved a solenoid operated 'shutter' over the  HID arc to provide some cut-off for dip beam, or the solenoid actually moved the whole tube with the arc in it back and forth a few mm,   but if you notice an H4 filament bulb has two distinct filaments in different positions in the optics - so a single source electric arc was never going to produce an acceptable beam pattern,  and the result was bright and unfocused light shining out of headlamps at other road users,  Move on to LED bulbs and then again pretty much every bulb had either a large square or round LED chip fitted which in no way replicated the long thin shape of a filament and once again resulted in an unfocused beam with a lot of the extra light not going where it should.  Then Philips came along and developed a ZES Luxeon LED light source that was made to exactly replicate the size, shape and position in reflector of a filament, and enabled two arrays of LED just like the two filaments in a normal H4 bulb,  with a much more useful 6000K ( daylight) light output compared to the distinctly yellow 3500 to 4500 of filament bulbs even the best Xenon filament 150% brighter bulbs get no better than 4500K.  Now like d2d4j and other users the cars have passed MOT with LED bulbs fitted, so the beam pattern and tightly controlled 'dazzle zone' are obviously OK ( boy racers used to remove their HID bulbs for MOT and then refit them ) I have not been flashed by other road users and the nearer to daylight output, although much whiter is not the annoying 'legal for road use' 9000K+ blue of German staff cars.  Not sure the bulbs are much brighter than 150% Xenon filaments I used to fit,  but the light quality makes driving much more pleasant.  What I have noticed most is that the classiccarleds LED bulbs put more light on the nearside verge - which makes them much better than any filament I ever tried ( and I have pretty much tried them all because for many years I had long daily commutes on mainly unlit twisting country B roads in all weathers and needed all the light i could get, so if any bulb promised to be brighter I would buy it).
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on July 28, 2019, 01:41:19 PM
I have no doubts that the bulbs you are fitting are safe, give a better lighting pattern, pass MOTs with no issues and generally make the car more pleasant to drive at night. Just, as the law stands at present, they are illegal to use on UK roads. As long as people fitting them are aware of that.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: ColinS on July 28, 2019, 06:41:58 PM
I have no doubts that the bulbs you are fitting are safe, give a better lighting pattern, pass MOTs with no issues and generally make the car more pleasant to drive at night. Just, as the law stands at present, they are illegal to use on UK roads. As long as people fitting them are aware of that.
+1

I did read a statement from the DfT saying that just because a car passes the MOT, doesn't mean that it is legal to drive on the road.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 28, 2019, 07:22:55 PM
The MOT is considered a once a year snapshot of vehicles condition and something can fail or break on the way home from an MOT that renders vehicle unsafe,  I don't think a head light bulb falls into that category as the beam pattern check is very specific in its parameters.  Bulb sellers have to put a disclaimer on the bulb if it is not homolgated for a reflector. Philips make filament bulbs and the ZES LED array they designed to replace filaments,  I am more than happy that my head light bulbs will not fail at inconvenient time and I may never have to buy another head light bulb.  Driving with a head light bulb blown in definitely against the law ( but only if it is dark :) ).

If an an MOT test station issues a certificate for your vehicle and you are stopped on way home and you are prosecuted for driving an illegal car away from an MOT station surely it would be the testers fault, otherwise what is the point of having an MOT ?

The DfT / VOSA saying that passing an MOT does not mean car is roadworthy basically makes an MOT meaningless, and is 4r53 covering of the worst kind..
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on July 28, 2019, 07:49:17 PM
The DfT / VOSA saying that passing an MOT does not mean car is roadworthy
ColinS said legal, not roadworthy. And MOT only covers items tested. I had a car with a chassis member made of plaster of Paris. It had passed the MOT because it couldn't be poked sufficiently in case the tester caused damage. I poked it and found the botched repair.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: ColinS on July 28, 2019, 08:00:40 PM
The MOT is considered a once a year snapshot of vehicles condition and something can fail or break on the way home from an MOT that renders vehicle unsafe,  I don't think a head light bulb falls into that category as the beam pattern check is very specific in its parameters.  Bulb sellers have to put a disclaimer on the bulb if it is not homolgated for a reflector. Philips make filament bulbs and the ZES LED array they designed to replace filaments,  I am more than happy that my head light bulbs will not fail at inconvenient time and I may never have to buy another head light bulb.  Driving with a head light bulb blown in definitely against the law ( but only if it is dark :) ).

If an an MOT test station issues a certificate for your vehicle and you are stopped on way home and you are prosecuted for driving an illegal car away from an MOT station surely it would be the testers fault, otherwise what is the point of having an MOT ?

The DfT / VOSA saying that passing an MOT does not mean car is roadworthy basically makes an MOT meaningless, and is 4r53 covering of the worst kind..
The MoT is a minimum safety standard that does not permit dismantling to be carried-out during the examination. It does not, generally, enforce Type Approval. Therefore, it is possible to have an unroadworthy car that has just passed its MoT Test.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 28, 2019, 10:07:55 PM
The DfT / VOSA saying that passing an MOT does not mean car is roadworthy
ColinS said legal, not roadworthy. And MOT only covers items tested. I had a car with a chassis member made of plaster of Paris. It had passed the MOT because it couldn't be poked sufficiently in case the tester caused damage. I poked it and found the botched repair.

Well it is clear on the beam testing machine if beam pattern is OK or not,  and the limits are pretty tight, especially the 'dazzle' area and the hotspot position... does not need any dismantling to check it.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on July 28, 2019, 10:13:01 PM
Well it is clear on the beam testing machine if beam pattern is OK or not,  and the limits are pretty tight, especially the 'dazzle' area and the hotspot position... does not need any dismantling to check it.
Still doesn't make them any more legal.

If it is of any consequence, I would probably fit them to my car, if it wasn't such a *********** to do, and if I wasn't happy with the headlights as they are.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest4871 on July 28, 2019, 10:13:36 PM
a much more useful 6000K ( daylight) light output compared to the distinctly yellow 3500 to 4500 of filament bulbs even the best Xenon filament 150% brighter bulbs get no better than 4500K.  Now like d2d4j and other users the cars have passed MOT with LED bulbs fitted, so the beam pattern and tightly controlled 'dazzle zone' are obviously OK ( boy racers used to remove their HID bulbs for MOT and then refit them ) I have not been flashed by other road users and the nearer to daylight output, although much whiter is not the annoying 'legal for road use' 9000K+ blue of German staff cars.  Not sure the bulbs are much brighter than 150% Xenon filaments I used to fit,  but the light quality makes driving much more pleasant.  What I have noticed most is that the classiccarleds LED bulbs put more light on the nearside verge - which makes them much better than any filament I ever tried ( and I have pretty much tried them all because for many years I had long daily commutes on mainly unlit twisting country B roads in all weathers and needed all the light i could get, so if any bulb promised to be brighter I would buy it).

The problem with LED bulbs is the colour of the light. "Daylight" bulbs at night are very harsh (not dazzling) to oncoming drivers compared with a "warm" white bulb. You may not have seen flashes but neither have you heard the curses!

(I hope you are not conflating Kelvin and Lumens?).
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on July 28, 2019, 10:27:30 PM
That is the problem with modern headlights. The lumen (brightness) output. Car headlights were traditionally regulated by a maximum and minimum wattage, but modern headlights have negated that. Modern headlights are so bright that even when set correctly they still destroy the night vision of approaching vehicles.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on July 28, 2019, 11:03:15 PM
Hi

If you look back on this thread, I posted 2 pictures showing beam pattern and brightness.

Decide for yourself, but to me the bean pattern certainly goes to the left with little to the right and if brightness was to bright, fog reflects lights so would be blinding to me, which is not.

Hence I am soo pleased culzean posted these led and why I have never been flashed

Big 4x4 and Audi, bmw, Mercedes and minis all have lights which blind me, and there factory fit

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Ralph on July 29, 2019, 06:17:42 AM
My factory fitted led lights had to be adjusted at the first service because they were too high and they are supposed to be self levelling. Still in that first year I never got flashed
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 29, 2019, 09:29:53 AM

Big 4x4 and Audi, bmw, Mercedes and minis all have lights which blind me, and there factory fit

Many thanks

John

I agree,  large German staff car lights ( well large cars and German cars in general including small German cars ) dazzling lights were the bane of my life when I was commuting on B roads,  and as you say they are CE marked and supposedly legal,  seemingly legal does not mean they don't dazzle you and seemingly illegal does not mean that are dazzling.. The beam cut-off on my headlights is better than the filament bulbs I used to buy and the placement of light more on the nearside verge much more useful for driving and less likely to bother other road users whether you are approaching them or following them.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest4871 on July 29, 2019, 10:44:19 AM

Big 4x4 and Audi, bmw, Mercedes and minis all have lights which blind me, and there factory fit

Many thanks

John

I agree,  large German staff car lights ( well large cars and German cars in general including small German cars ) dazzling lights were the bane of my life when I was commuting on B roads,  and as you say they are CE marked and supposedly legal,  seemingly legal does not mean they don't dazzle you and seemingly illegal does not mean that are dazzling.. The beam cut-off on my headlights is better than the filament bulbs I used to buy and the placement of light more on the nearside verge much more useful for driving and less likely to bother other road users whether you are approaching them or following them.

You are missing the point. It is not where the lights point but the colour of the light.

I believe new regulations are presently being considered.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on July 29, 2019, 11:13:15 AM
Hi zzaj

Many thanks but I understand what you are saying

I was told by the MOT garage, they check colour/intensity of headlights and of wrong colour, it is fail. Eg bluish light etc...

Those cars I mentioned have brilliant white light which is blinding and very distracting. Even some of the DRL factory fitted do not dim when sidelights are turned on and been in a small car with an approaching car with those on, does blind you. Well it certainly does me... that is my point...

Also, culzean led are not max lumens, so the fact they produce white light, is not blinding white light.

In fact, I would say they do not show more of the road ahead, it is just clearer due to been white light (not yellowish light) and the road signs are more visible

Have you looked at my 2 pictures, taken in fog. These show the led for what they are as taken from a dashcam

Would you like me to put up pictures of the other cars blinding lights (we record front and rear). If so, you may have to wait until I drive at night

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on July 29, 2019, 11:35:53 AM
I was told by the MOT garage, they check colour/intensity of headlights and of wrong colour, it is fail. Eg bluish light etc..
Yes and no. They only check that both lights are the same colour and intensity as each other. They don't care if they are bluish, white or yellowish, as long as they are both the same. Same goes for intensity. You are not allowed a bright light and a dull light, but they can be dull or bright, as long as they are both the same.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on July 29, 2019, 11:39:40 AM
Hi jocko

Many thanks

I am not mechanical so just repeating what they told me. They did state strongly, bluish light was a fail which I guess is hid lights

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 29, 2019, 05:02:10 PM

Big 4x4 and Audi, bmw, Mercedes and minis all have lights which blind me, and there factory fit

Many thanks

John

I agree,  large German staff car lights ( well large cars and German cars in general including small German cars ) dazzling lights were the bane of my life when I was commuting on B roads,  and as you say they are CE marked and supposedly legal,  seemingly legal does not mean they don't dazzle you and seemingly illegal does not mean that are dazzling.. The beam cut-off on my headlights is better than the filament bulbs I used to buy and the placement of light more on the nearside verge much more useful for driving and less likely to bother other road users whether you are approaching them or following them.

You are missing the point. It is not where the lights point but the colour of the light.

I believe new regulations are presently being considered.

Well I don't think I am missing the point at all some of those German HID light sources go up to 9000K which is very blue indeed...and it is the blue component of the light that gets scattered by the jelly in your eyes and causes glare,  also I am not in the habit of confusing lumens with colour temperature...
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest7494 on July 30, 2019, 09:09:52 AM
If I can just say on the recommendation of Culzean I purchased and fitted LED bulbs. Some time ago.
They improved without doubt the safety and vision capabilities of the vehicle,I have not been flashed by oncoming vehicles or indeed any other signs of vexation from approaching traffic.
So all these  expert and technical observations are completely over my head, these bulbs are safer for the pedestrians and cyclists using our local B roads and narrow lanes during dusk and darkness especially as there are NO street lights in the rural retreats also for myself an improved and less stressed journey.
So all in all a success all round and £70.00 well spent.
All I can say is in the interest of general road safety during night driving they are bang on,
However I would say this dammed auto headlight system is a pain in the a—- I would really like to have the facility to decide when headlights are to be turned on and off, and when to dip or main beam.
Sorry about the rant but these bloody EU rules and regulations get right up my nose.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on July 30, 2019, 10:08:40 AM
+1 to all that Jaffa Jazz has said regarding these lights, particularly his comments about the Auto lights. Why they should turn on, in bright sunshine, just because i happen to be stopped at traffic lights, under overhanging trees, is beyond me. Can't imagine what the guy in front of me thinks!

As an aside, my Jazz is booked in 20th August at our local Honda Franchise Dealer, for it's 3rd service and it's 1st MOT.
I will let to all know what happens regarding the headlight approval.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Steve1962 on July 30, 2019, 06:47:40 PM
Well,
After due consideration and taking into account all the comments posted on here, both for and against, I have decided to take the plunge and buy the LED bulbs from classiccarled.
I called the garage I use and asked their opinion - they have told me that as long as the beam pattern is not affected and the colour of the light is correct, they would have no issue with the bulbs being fitted.

I will let you know how I get on and will no doubt refer to the excellent fitting guidance offered here.

Thanks all.

Steve
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 30, 2019, 06:57:05 PM
Well,
After due consideration and taking into account all the comments posted on here, both for and against, I have decided to take the plunge and buy the LED bulbs from classiccarled.
I called the garage I use and asked their opinion - they have told me that as long as the beam pattern is not affected and the colour of the light is correct, they would have no issue with the bulbs being fitted.

I will let you know how I get on and will no doubt refer to the excellent fitting guidance offered here.

Thanks all.

Steve

Good man, you will not regret it come the dark nights, IMHO the lack of heat from the front end of the LED bulbs  ( The heat comes out of the heatsink at the rear of bulb ) really helps with the clouding of the plastic headlamp covers and stops dirt baking on. I have for many years used AutoGlym super resin polish on our headlamp covers once a month or so and they stay shiny and no sign of fading ( it works on PVCu house window frames as well to keep them sparkling - I only do them once a year though ).

If you look back through this thread nearer the beginning ( post number 13 ) I posted photos as PDF attachments showing beam pattern in my wife's MK2 of the bulbs.  I have LED bulbs from classiccarleds in my Civic, but because it has 4 headlamps with seperate dip and main using H1 and H7  I decided only to fit them to dipped lamps, when you go to main beam all 4 headlamps come on anyway, and you use dip 90% more than main anyway, and main beam bulbs are easy peazy to replace...

On both our Jazz and Civic I have no hesitation driving around on dipped beam during the day now, as the LED bulbs do not 'wear out' like filament bulbs and draw less than 1/3 of the power...
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Steve1962 on July 30, 2019, 07:23:57 PM


Good man, you will not regret it come the dark nights, IMHO the lack of heat from the front end of the LED bulbs  ( The heat comes out of the heatsink at the rear of bulb ) really helps with the clouding of the plastic headlamp covers and stops dirt baking on. I have for many years used AutoGlym super resin polish on our headlamp covers once a month or so and they stay shiny and no sign of fading ( it works on PVCu house window frames as well to keep them sparkling - I only do them once a year though ).

If you look back through this thread nearer the beginning ( post number 13 ) I posted photos as PDF attachments showing beam pattern in my wife's MK2 of the bulbs.  I have LED bulbs from classiccarleds in my Civic, but because it has 4 headlamps with seperate dip and main using H1 and H7  I decided only to fit them to dipped lamps, when you go to main beam all 4 headlamps come on anyway, and you use dip 90% more than main anyway, and main beam bulbs are easy peazy to replace...
[/quote]

Thanks Culzean,

Any handy tips for installing them - I am notoriously ham fisted at anything practical ( I call it bad luck, but the wife begs to differ..... ;D ;D).....

Steve

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 30, 2019, 07:54:06 PM
Most findings about fitting are in this thread.

You will find a couple of hexagon Allen keys in with the bulbs, these fit the grub screws on the bulbs.  One grub screw is holding the body of the bulb static in relation to the orientation tabs on the bulb mounting flange - there are instructions with the bulb which number to line up for RH drive car, the people on here who have bought the bulbs have found they are already set up properly for UK. Just make sure the grub screw is nipped up properly.  The other grub screw locks the heatsink to the rear of bulb, the heatsink screws on and make sure grub screw is fully slackened off before trying to unscrew it.  The Allen keys are very close is size so check you have the correct one.   You will have to screw heatsink off to fit bulb, with the heatsink off you can easily flick the spring clips on the back of Honda reflector that hold bulb in place ( it makes bulb easier to fit if you bear in mind that the widest of the 3 tabs on the bulb flange faces vertically upwards to line up with its slot in reflector flange ) once bulb is clipped in you can refit the rubber seal that you removed when you took old filament bulb out - then rescrew the heatsink back onto bulb, heatsink can screw on two ways, make sure the threaded portion of heatsink that sticks out screws on first so that main finned body of heatsink sits away from back of bulb and more towards bulkhead, this improves the air flow around heatsink by taking fins further away from rubber grommet. Hand tighten heatsink and do not worry about tightening the grub screw as you will find it impossible to do it anyway, mine have been in over two years with no grub screw fitted, let alone tightened.  I did smear a bit of computer heatsink compound on my threads, but it gets really messy.  They supply cable ties with bulbs to fix the bulb power supply ( constant current driver )  to somewhere convenient nearby.   I found the heatsink never really gets hotter than 40 to 50 degree C ( can easily hold you hand on it) so it is quite safe to mount near cables, the power supply module barely gets warm.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Steve1962 on July 30, 2019, 08:27:43 PM
Most findings about fitting are in this thread.

You will find a couple of hexagon Allen keys in with the bulbs, these fit the grub screws on the bulbs.  One grub screw is holding the body of the bulb static in relation to the orientation tabs on the bulb mounting flange - there are instructions with the bulb which number to line up for RH drive car, the people on here who have bought the bulbs have found they are already set up properly for UK. Just make sure the grub screw is nipped up properly.  The other grub screw locks the heatsink to the rear of bulb, the heatsink screws on and make sure grub screw is fully slackened off before trying to unscrew it.  The Allen keys are very close is size so check you have the correct one.   You will have to screw heatsink off to fit bulb, with the heatsink off you can easily flick the spring clips on the back of Honda reflector that hold bulb in place ( it makes bulb easier to fit if you bear in mind that the widest of the 3 tabs on the bulb flange faces vertically upwards to line up with its slot in reflector flange ) once bulb is clipped in you can refit the rubber seal that you removed when you took old filament bulb out - then rescrew the heatsink back onto bulb, heatsink can screw on two ways, make sure the threaded portion of heatsink that sticks out screws on first so that main finned body of heatsink sits away from back of bulb and more towards bulkhead, this improves the air flow around heatsink by taking fins further away from rubber grommet. Hand tighten heatsink and do not worry about tightening the grub screw as you will find it impossible to do it anyway, mine have been in over two years with no grub screw fitted, let alone tightened.  I did smear a bit of computer heatsink compound on my threads, but it gets really messy.  They supply cable ties with bulbs to fix the bulb power supply ( constant current driver )  to somewhere convenient nearby.   I found the heatsink never really gets hotter than 40 to 50 degree C ( can easily hold you hand on it) so it is quite safe to mount near cables, the power supply module barely gets warm.

That is what I call guidance - brilliant!!

Will post a response when the deed is done......assuming I still have enough fingers left to type....lol.

Steve
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 31, 2019, 02:32:02 PM
Just checked what number my wifes Jazz bulbs set to for UK use ( there is a moulded in line at top of part of bulb that is fixed to the normal 3 tabs H4 bulb mounting and a numbered scale around the inner part of bulb that can rotate when you undo the locking grub screw ) this is visible if you look through head light cover, they are set to number 8 to give the beam a LH tilt towards near side verge.  I was very impressed with the quality of the bulbs when I got ours - look like something NASA would build...
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on July 31, 2019, 04:58:57 PM
I haven't checked the beam setting number on mine, but as I understand it, the RH cut off portion of the dipped beam should be horizontal, which gives a tilt up on the LH side of roughly 20' or so.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 31, 2019, 05:16:11 PM
I haven't checked the beam setting number on mine, but as I understand it, the RH cut off portion of the dipped beam should be horizontal, which gives a tilt up on the LH side of roughly 20' or so.

The paperwork that came with bulb suggested position 8 for UK vehicle and they came already locked in that position, which  assume all the ones sold in countries that drive on the left would be.. if you did not change the position of yours it will undoubtedly have been set to 8 by manufacturer.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on July 31, 2019, 05:34:27 PM
Fully accept what you say re the setting number, but , I do recall that the setting moved whilst screwing on the heat sink because the grub screw had not been properly tightened and I adjusted it to give the horizontal portion as just described, is this assumption correct?
I will when I get chance take the bulbs out and check the setting number.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on July 31, 2019, 06:09:34 PM
Hi

Ours were preset to number 8.

I just made sure they were tight on the lock nut

Also, you do not need to remove the led to check. On our jazz the headlight is clear and big enough to see what the position of the led setting

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 31, 2019, 06:20:38 PM

Also, you do not need to remove the led to check. On our jazz the headlight is clear and big enough to see what the position of the led setting


What John says is 100% you can see the setting through headlight clear acrylic cover - all i did was shine a torch at the base of the bulb ( bright sun was reflecting off headlight ) and could clearly see the number 8 lined up on both bulbs, the number will be at top of base in 12 o'clock position..
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on July 31, 2019, 09:19:19 PM
Now I am confused, mine are set to 7 and if I adjust them clockwise to 8, (looking from the front of the car) then the RH cutoff portion of the dipped beam will no longer be horizontal and will shining up into oncoming drivers eyes?

So, I ask again, should the RH cutoff line be horizontal?

Certainly I am aware of the  LH side of the lights, illuminating the kerb and road  signs a lot more than the old bulbs did and obviously setting at 7 will do that.

So, tomorrow I will, in the absence of other advice, reset them to 8 and see how we go.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Jocko on July 31, 2019, 09:31:10 PM
I will when I get chance take the bulbs out and check the setting number.
Is the other side set to 8? I'd set the one that moved to match the one that didn't.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 31, 2019, 09:56:21 PM
As you say having bulb set at 7 will put more light on verge as the kick up is slightly more pronounced than when set on 8.  The thing is the vertical cut off of the beam is so crisp with little stray light that either will be OK. I noticed that the beam cut off is sharper than filament bulb..

Even at the recommended position 8 the first thing I noticed was the extra light on the verge.... if you are happy and car passed MOT I would not bother moving bulb.

Don't forget reflectors are already shaped for LH or RH drive cars to put light to the left or right as required so even with a standard filament bulb the mounting on rear of reflector and position of mounting tabs orientates the filament and low beam baffle to suit..
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on July 31, 2019, 10:08:55 PM
Thanks for your reply Culzean, the car is booked in for it's 3rd service and 1st MOT on 20th August, so I guess it's a wait and see game. The MOT will obviously be done by the Honda Franchise Dealer, rather than a MOT station.

I guess I'm a bit wary about raising the RH beam by moving to 8 as I normally run with the incar headlight adjustment a couple of notches down anyway to avoid flashing.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on July 31, 2019, 10:14:09 PM
Thanks for your reply Culzean, the car is booked in for it's 3rd service and 1st MOT on 20th August, so I guess it's a wait and see game. The MOT will obviously be done by the Honda Franchise Dealer, rather than a MOT station.

I guess I'm a bit wary about raising the RH beam by moving to 8 as I normally run with the incar headlight adjustment a couple of notches down anyway to avoid flashing.

The tester may put the beam height control on zero anyway for the test as this is its highest position..  The beam test looks for a kick up towards verge anyway..
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on July 31, 2019, 10:26:19 PM
To my mind, from the point of view of less nuisance to oncoming motorists, 7 is better than 8.
The last thing I want is to imitate the German staff cars!!
I should also confirm that both lights are currently set to 7
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Kenneve on August 01, 2019, 12:28:51 PM
Had second thoughts and in deference to Culzean and the other experts on this forum, i have this morning adjusted both headlights to position 8, (all of a 10 minute job, I guess the Mk3 is a bit easier than previous models).  I just need to see what the MOT inspector makes of them later this month.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on August 01, 2019, 03:46:07 PM
Had second thoughts and in deference to Culzean and the other experts on this forum, i have this morning adjusted both headlights to position 8, (all of a 10 minute job, I guess the Mk3 is a bit easier than previous models).  I just need to see what the MOT inspector makes of them later this month.

Would be interested to see if you notice any difference in where the light goes now.....have to say  am more than happy with the extra light on the near side verge - much better than a filament bulb.. but looking at the LED arrangement with 4 chips each side I am not surprised that beam  seems to be flatter, with more light across the road and better vertical cut off ( no stray light into dazzle zone ).

In Shropshire the council put a solid white line along each verge ( maybe because it being very rural ) and I miss it when travelling to other places, that white line is much more useful than the line in centre of road when vehicles approaching at night.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Steve1962 on August 05, 2019, 05:51:53 PM
Right chaps,
Got a set of the  LED H4 bulbs and have installed them in my wife's Suzuki SX4 about an hour ago, and I put the dust cap back on and then threaded the heat sink back into place without issue.

Impressed with the quality, they look well made.

Not too hard to do even for a caveman like me - for once I took my time and no knuckles were grazed nor blood shed.

I have one question to ask to those who have fitted them - how and where are you fixing the junction box to keep it secure?

I haven't been out in the dark yet but plan to take a little spin tonight and will report back afterwards.

Thanks all.

Steve
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Basil on September 12, 2019, 09:07:44 AM
I've been reading the posts about replacement LED bulbs with interest as I find the standard lights quite good but there's always room for improvement.

I thought most new cars these days were fitted with LED's, I didn't realise there was also something called HID which I assume is the type fitted to a lot of Audi's and BMW's.

I find the headlights on some of these new cars do seem really bright and can be a bit distracting for other road users but the worst I've experienced was a boy racer type car, perhaps about 10 years old. It caught up with the car about 2 or 3 places behind me and I just couldn't believe how bright and dazzling the lights were. The cars in between us then turned off and the car was directly behind me, I could hardly see a thing so I slowed down to let it overtake me.

I'm not sure what bulbs were in the above car but I'm sure they must have badly adjusted to be that bad, which probably made it a lot worse when the lights were so bright.

Anyway, with all the recommendations, I've been thinking of taking the plunge but after a quick google I've found several up to date reports (including whatcar) saying LED's are an illegal replacement for cars originally fitted with filament bulbs. Even the ClassicCarLEDs website has a disclaimer saying aftermarket external LED bulbs are not 100% technically road legal.

Am I missing something ?

How many of you have checked with your insurance company if it affects your cover ?

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: d2d4j on September 12, 2019, 09:21:01 AM
Hi

We fitted classic cars led a few years ago (thanks culzean) and it has passed 2 mot (I did inform garage leds were fitted)

I also informed our insurance company and they noted it on our policy but only at my insistence to do so.

So no insurance issues

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on September 12, 2019, 10:56:21 AM
There are lots of truly awful cheap and nasty aftermarket LED and high intensity discharge ( HID - an electric arc in a tube ) kits available and they get fitted by some people and they take them out for MOT and then put them back after.  Look at some of the videos in this original headlights thread and you will see that a lot of the LED bulbs were tested and then binned,  only the ones with the philips Luxeon ZES chips passed their tests for hotspot position and beam shape / distribution.  Now £70 is not a small amount to pay for a pair of bulbs when you can go on fleabay and get a pair for £10,  but a lot of cars on here have passed MOT with the classiccarleds ones fitted, as remarked most of the extra light goes on the nearside verge and the beam pattern is flat and well controlled with very little stray light.

The dazzling lights even come on modern German and high end cars,  most of the dazzling ones on older cars are probably badly designed LED or HID retrofit.  It is important that the shape and position of the light source matches the shape of the filament bulb it replaces,  some nasty ones have big square or round LED chips,  the classiccarleds philips chips are made to be same length and height as a filament, and in the same position on the bulb relative to focus point of headlight reflector.

Headlight revolution videos on page 1 about halfway down.

If you look around 25 minute point on 'what to look for when buying' video from headlight revolution it discusses the philips chips...

https://clubjazz.org/forum/index.php?topic=8738.0

here is another video - again look after 24 minute mark to see the importance of chip size and placement to beam pattern...

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Basil on September 12, 2019, 11:49:51 AM
Thanks for the comments and advice.

I'm not doubting the quality of these bulbs but even though they pass MOT's and several insurance companies seem to be ok with them, they don't seem to be technically 100% legal do they ?

I just asked my insurance company and they said they couldn't find any reference to fitting aftermarket LED bulbs so they 'should' be ok.

I suppose if they pass MOT's, are ok with insurance companies and the million dollar question,  are not unsafe for other road users, they might be technically illegal but it's probably ok to fit them.

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest4871 on September 12, 2019, 01:55:53 PM
They are unsafe for other road users.

LED modified headlights are illegal.

They are not covered in the MOT and will thus are not a failure. It does not make them legal.

The problem for other road users is the light spectrum. See the attached analysis below from classiccarsled to see why.

The blue spectrum in LED bulbs is equal to the daylight spectrum. This causes night blindness even in daylight for on coming road users.

The LED light spectrum is markedly different to halogen.

LED headlights are as anti social as loud exhausts and pounding music. That doesn't seem to worry people who only think of themselves.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on September 12, 2019, 02:11:05 PM
Thanks for the comments and advice.

I'm not doubting the quality of these bulbs but even though they pass MOT's and several insurance companies seem to be ok with them, they don't seem to be technically 100% legal do they ?

I just asked my insurance company and they said they couldn't find any reference to fitting aftermarket LED bulbs so they 'should' be ok.

I suppose if they pass MOT's, are ok with insurance companies and the million dollar question,  are not unsafe for other road users, they might be technically illegal but it's probably ok to fit them.

Another advantage of the LED bulbs is that I am quite happy to drive on dipped beam in daylight because the LED do not have a limited lifespan like filament bulbs,  especially the +130, +150 ones, and because less heat out the front ( it goes our at rear through heatsink) the insects and other crud does not bake onto headlight lens...

Bear in mind the MOT is very precise on beam pattern and light distribution ( there are some graphs earlier in this thread about what the MOT beam testing machine looks for ) - this is to ensure that headlights are as effective as possible but you do not dazzle other road users ( the term they use is 'dazzle zone' ). Your car will fail MOT if headlight are set too low, as well as too high or wrong beam pattern.

As far as light temperature is concerned many high end cars with HID ( and scrotes cars with HID and dodgy LED ) are very much more blue than the 6000K of the LED discussed here.  If you read boy racer forums they know their lights will not pass MOT and take bulbs out for the test and fit filament bulbs,  and then put dodgy bits back.

It is just natural technical advancement for LED to take over from filaments,  just as filaments took over from acetylene lamps, and acetylene lamps took over from oil lamps, oil lamps from candles etc. etc.. something will take over from LED soon.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest4871 on September 12, 2019, 02:40:23 PM
As far as light temperature is concerned many high end cars with HID ( and scrotes cars with HID and dodgy LED ) are very much more blue than the 6000K of the LED discussed here.  If you read boy racer forums they know their lights will not pass MOT and take bulbs out for the test and fit filament bulbs,  and then put dodgy bits back.

We are talking LED bulbs here! Because people do worse does make a wrong right.

I don't read boy racer forums myself (except here  :D). I don't follow topics on dodgy bulb modifications or dodgy exhausts or dodgy bass amplifiers. I don't think the last is an MOT issue either.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: guest4871 on September 12, 2019, 02:50:33 PM

Another advantage of the LED bulbs is that I am quite happy to drive on dipped beam in daylight because the LED do not have a limited lifespan like filament bulbs,  especially the +130, +150 ones, and because less heat out the front ( it goes our at rear through heatsink) the insects and other crud does not bake onto headlight lens...

Bear in mind the MOT is very precise on beam pattern and light distribution ( there are some graphs earlier in this thread about what the MOT beam testing machine looks for ) - this is to ensure that headlights are as effective as possible but you do not dazzle other road users ( the term they use is 'dazzle zone' ). Your car will fail MOT if headlight are set too low, as well as too high or wrong beam pattern.

As far as light temperature is concerned many high end cars with HID ( and scrotes cars with HID and dodgy LED ) are very much more blue than the 6000K of the LED discussed here.  If you read boy racer forums they know their lights will not pass MOT and take bulbs out for the test and fit filament bulbs,  and then put dodgy bits back.

It is just natural technical advancement for LED to take over from filaments,  just as filaments took over from acetylene lamps, and acetylene lamps took over from oil lamps, oil lamps from candles etc. etc.. something will take over from LED soon.

I see you have edited this post.

Quote "I am quite happy to drive on dipped beam in daylight". My point entirely.

Modified LED headlights are just as much a problem in daylight too for other road users as are some DLR.

It is not an issue of beam pattern or 'dazzle'.

We won't need headlights with autonomous cars.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: cornishpasty on September 12, 2019, 03:26:01 PM
Really informative post by Culzean. Thank you. I guess cyclists and pedestrians both would appreciate headlights on vehicles. unless they are robots too !
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on September 12, 2019, 05:04:39 PM
We won't need headlights with autonomous cars.

By the time you see proper autonomous cars we will be using pieces of luminous rock from a far galaxy as headlights = don't hold you breath waiting for credible free roaming autonomous cars that don't run over cyclists or drive into fire trucks to appear anytime soon.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on September 03, 2020, 01:47:25 PM
Now you can get laser activated phosphorous bulbs.... only seem suitable for projector style headlights at the moment.

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Steve1962 on September 03, 2020, 07:09:06 PM
Thanks to Culzean's original post about LED bulbs from classiccarleds.co.uk, I have fitted them on my 61 plate Jazz, and our other car, a 64 plate Suzuki SX4.

The bulbs are an impressive improvement, and well worth the investment for me, as we live in the countryside where the roads are unlit - these lights provide a wide beam which lights up the side of the road very well.

Both cars have been through MOT's without issue as the beam pattern is fine.

I'd recommend them.

Steve
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Basil on September 07, 2020, 01:11:18 PM
I'm not one to rush into things, so a year after enquiring about them I've finally had a set delivered !

They look quite impressive, I can see why they're £70 now.

There is only 1 allen key and that's for the two grub screws that hold the mounting ring in place, the heat sink is kept in place with a spring washer.

I can't see any numbers for the bulb rotation but there are 13 positions and the 12th is marked in green, the instructions say this suits the majority of vehicles.

I'll try to fit them later.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on September 07, 2020, 02:45:59 PM
The bulbs may have changed slightly since I got ours over 3 years ago.  They are normally supplied in the correct rotation position for RHD UK use. You have got them at the right time now days getting shorter, I would have really appreciated them when I used to commute 40 miles each way on B roads in all weather, much of it in dark.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Steve1962 on September 07, 2020, 05:47:54 PM
The bulbs may have changed slightly since I got ours over 3 years ago.  They are normally supplied in the correct rotation position for RHD UK use. You have got them at the right time now days getting shorter, I would have really appreciated them when I used to commute 40 miles each way on B roads in all weather, much of it in dark.

The position marked will be the right one - Culzean is right about your timing to fit these - they really do make such a difference, I doubt very much that you'll regret fitting them.

Thanks
Steve
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Basil on September 08, 2020, 08:59:06 AM
I managed to fit them yesterday and left them on their default settings, it's a bit of a fiddly job as you can't really see what your doing but I found it fairly easy. There were no enclosed cable ties but luckily I already had some as I wouldn't want to leave the cables unsecured.

I gave them a quick test when it got dark and I can see what you mean, it puts clear, bright white light where you need it but the beam pattern is very controlled and they're not excessively bright so they could dazzle other road users.

The light from the sidelights now looks really yellow in comparison.

It will be good to go for a longer drive in the dark, over a mixture of road types to fully appreciate the improvement.

Thanks all for the recommendation and advice.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on September 08, 2020, 11:24:00 AM
I managed to fit them yesterday and left them on their default settings, it's a bit of a fiddly job as you can't really see what your doing but I found it fairly easy. There were no enclosed cable ties but luckily I already had some as I wouldn't want to leave the cables unsecured.

I gave them a quick test when it got dark and I can see what you mean, it puts clear, bright white light where you need it but the beam pattern is very controlled and they're not excessively bright so they could dazzle other road users.

The light from the sidelights now looks really yellow in comparison.

It will be good to go for a longer drive in the dark, over a mixture of road types to fully appreciate the improvement.

Thanks all for the recommendation and advice.

The dip is great as it puts more light on nearside verge than filament bulbs, this is very handy at night on unlit twisty country lanes, and for road signs - especially with lights coming other way.  If you think the dip is good wait till you try main.

My Civic has four headlights and I only put H7 led bulbs in dip beam ( main beam are H1 ) as dip is the one used 95% of the time,  and when you switch to main beam all four headlights lights come on anyway.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: John Ratsey on September 08, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
The light from the sidelights now looks really yellow in comparison.
So maybe treat those to some LED bulbs as well - as they serve as the DRLs then brighter is better.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on October 21, 2020, 10:24:21 AM
I can't see any numbers for the bulb rotation but there are 13 positions and the 12th is marked in green, the instructions say this suits the majority of vehicles.

When you think about it every H4 filament bulb sold is identical with its filament position in relation to the 3 location tabs on the flange of the bulb ( the widest tab always at the top - it helps to know this when trying to fit a bulb ). They do not make LH or RH drive versions of the H4 it is the mounting part on the rear of headlight that sets which way the standard bulb base is rotated etc - the green 12 must be when LED orientation is absolutely standard just like the filaments on the standard ubiquitous mass produced H4 bulb. Personally I would have thought that no adjustment is needed and maybe the adjustment may well be a gimmick ? My thoughts are that if something is adjustable it can be adjusted wrongly.  Fortunately the way the bulbs are made you can look at front of bulb through the headlight lens and see check which number the rotation is set to
( see attached PDF )
.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: UKjim on February 07, 2021, 09:53:29 AM
It looks like with MOT rules changes from 1st January 2021 all of us with LED headlight bulbs will have to remove them to pass this year’s MOT. It’s a real shame as it’s one of the best upgrades I have installed on the Jazz.

I can’t see the problem if the beam pattern is correct   The cut off on the Classic Car LED H4’s is so much better than halogen bulbs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on February 07, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
It looks like with MOT rules changes from 1st January 2021 all of us with LED headlight bulbs will have to remove them to pass this year’s MOT. It’s a real shame as it’s one of the best upgrades I have installed on the Jazz.

I can’t see the problem if the beam pattern is correct   The cut off on the Classic Car LED H4’s is so much better than halogen bulbs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Civic passed its MOT in late January with the LED bulbs still fitted....
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: UKjim on February 07, 2021, 10:10:26 AM
It looks like with MOT rules changes from 1st January 2021 all of us with LED headlight bulbs will have to remove them to pass this year’s MOT. It’s a real shame as it’s one of the best upgrades I have installed on the Jazz.

I can’t see the problem if the beam pattern is correct   The cut off on the Classic Car LED H4’s is so much better than halogen bulbs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Civic passed its MOT in late January with the LED bulbs still fitted....
Presumably your MOT tester didn’t know about the revised rules or chose to ignore them.
My regular tester who is a friend has retired so I will have to find a new tester this year, so I may not be as lucky as you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on February 07, 2021, 10:27:12 AM
It looks like with MOT rules changes from 1st January 2021 all of us with LED headlight bulbs will have to remove them to pass this year’s MOT. It’s a real shame as it’s one of the best upgrades I have installed on the Jazz.

I can’t see the problem if the beam pattern is correct   The cut off on the Classic Car LED H4’s is so much better than halogen bulbs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My Civic passed its MOT in late January with the LED bulbs still fitted....
Presumably your MOT tester didn’t know about the revised rules or chose to ignore them.
My regular tester who is a friend has retired so I will have to find a new tester this year, so I may not be as lucky as you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The boy racers used to regularly change their bulbs from HID to filament for MOT, any MOT tester worth his salt knew that - for one day out of 365 the original filament went back in.  It is not big job to change back to filament, as the 3 pin socket is still there, just unplug from constant current LED power supply and plug onto back of normal bulb.  Wouldn't want to do it on a MK1 though, but on Civic and MK2 and later Jazz the bulb is easily accessible...  I will leave LED in wifes Jazz in July and see what the tester says, get a free retest anyway.  My MOT place is pretty much on the ball as they do loads of MOT tests,  they have 6 MOT bays - the reason I chose them is 1. they do motorbikes and 2. they are not a garage that fixes vehicles, so no vested interest in failing a vehicle just as a work-creation scheme.  They do performance tuning and customise high power cars,  they used to do Ford Cosworth customised vehicles ( including Transit vans  :o ) now they concentrate on Nissan Skyline etc.

To me the important thing is the beam shape,  and as others have remarked the cut-off and nearside spread of the Classiccarled LED is much better than the best filament bulb it ever tried ( and I tried most of them ),  and the only one that came close on beam shape was the Philips ones.

I am guessing that there have been an increase in MOT failures in past few years for bad beam patterns and this has been put in to cover that ( as if the current beam pattern, light colour and brightness regulations were not enough ) - as I said inspector has never mentioned beam pattern on either of out cars.
Title: Headlights
Post by: UKjim on February 07, 2021, 10:38:22 AM

.........To me the important thing is the beam shape,  and as others have remarked the cut-off and nearside spread of the Classiccarled LED is much better than the best filament bulb it ever tried ( and I tried most of them ),  and the only one that came close on beam shape was the Philips ones.


Totally agree with you
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Basil on February 08, 2021, 03:19:11 PM
My car is booked in for an MOT on the 22nd of Feb at the main dealer where I bought it and my friend who is the sales director is taking it in for me.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: UKjim on February 08, 2021, 03:29:16 PM
My car is booked in for an MOT on the 22nd of Feb at the main dealer where I bought it and my friend who is the sales director is taking it in for me.
Please let us know how you get on.


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Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on February 08, 2021, 04:26:43 PM
Presumably your MOT tester didn’t know about the revised rules or chose to ignore them.
My regular tester who is a friend has retired so I will have to find a new tester this year, so I may not be as lucky as you.


I would assume that all registered MOT inspectors are sent information on upcoming changes well in advance to allow them to study them, a bit like car companies send out technical service bulletins.  You wouldn't expect MOT guys to find out about them in a car magazine article months later.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on February 08, 2021, 04:32:52 PM
Posted this in here as well as other newer 'Led Headlights' thread,  just shows the importance of getting LED light source the correct size and shape in the correct place in reflector.   The classiccarleds LED bulbs use Philips Ultinon Z-ES chips exactly like the best bulbs tested in this video.

Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: sparky Paul on February 08, 2021, 05:15:03 PM
This is the new rule in the testing manual

Quote
4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment

4.1.4 Headlamps - Compliance with requirements

'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.'

has been changed to

'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.'

So, there is very little ambiguity.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Steve1962 on February 08, 2021, 07:29:46 PM
This is the new rule in the testing manual

Quote
4. Lamps, reflectors and electrical equipment

4.1.4 Headlamps - Compliance with requirements

'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with HID bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.'

has been changed to

'Existing halogen headlamp units should not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp.'

So, there is very little ambiguity.

That's a real bugger as I've got the ClassiccarLED bulbs in my Jazz -2011, and they are really good.
I am going to call my garage tomorrow to get their view on it.

Steve
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: sparky Paul on February 08, 2021, 07:40:39 PM
That's a real bugger as I've got the ClassiccarLED bulbs in my Jazz -2011, and they are really good.
I am going to call my garage tomorrow to get their view on it.

Personally, I think I would do what culzean says - just put it in for the test and say nothing. Unless the beam is all to cock, I can them being overlooked... and if you get a particularly fussy tester, just plead ignorance and swap them out.

Telling them they are fitted is only going to increase the chance that you'll have to remove them.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: culzean on February 08, 2021, 09:10:07 PM
That's a real bugger as I've got the ClassiccarLED bulbs in my Jazz -2011, and they are really good.
I am going to call my garage tomorrow to get their view on it.

Personally, I think I would do what culzean says - just put it in for the test and say nothing. Unless the beam is all to cock, I can them being overlooked... and if you get a particularly fussy tester, just plead ignorance and swap them out.

Telling them they are fitted is only going to increase the chance that you'll have to remove them.

Don't bring them to attention of anyone, sparkyP is right, if beam pattern is good ( and we know it is) they will pass..otherwise a quick swap and free retest at most places.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Basil on February 23, 2021, 09:35:53 AM
I had the MOT yesterday, I was going to put the original bulbs back in but decided to leave the LED's in and say nothing.

I had a phone call from the garage mid morning, they said the Garmin was obstructing the drivers view so they would have to remove it for the MOT and the rear brakes were binding and the discs and pads needed replacing but no mention of the bulbs.

They called me later in the day to say it had passed and the car was ready to pick up.
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: UKjim on February 23, 2021, 09:42:02 AM
Good news, we need to start a covert list of all the LED friendly MOT Stations!


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Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: sparky Paul on February 23, 2021, 09:47:26 AM
Lovely, another 12 months worry free motoring!  :)
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: Basil on March 19, 2021, 01:18:46 PM
The regulations seem to have changed again:

From 22 March 2021, we’re changing these rules so that not all motorcycles and vehicles will fail the MOT test if their halogen headlamp units have been converted to be used with HID or LED bulbs.

Class 1 and 2 motorcycles must not be failed for the defect ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’.

Headlamps must comply with all other requirements of the test and headlamp aim.

The motorcycle inspection manual will be updated shortly, and the ability to select the defect within the MOT testing service will be removed.

For class 3,4,5 and 7 vehicles, the defect ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ only applies to vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986.

Should a vehicle be presented for an MOT test with conversions before 1 April 1986 they must not be failed with immediate effect.

Vehicles presented with converted halogen headlamp units first used on or after 1 April 1986 will continue to be failed.

Headlamps must comply with all other requirements of the test and headlamp aim.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/special-notice-01-21-headlamp-conversions/mot-special-notice-01-21-headlamp-conversions
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: sparky Paul on March 19, 2021, 02:27:19 PM
Vehicles presented with converted halogen headlamp units first used on or after 1 April 1986 will continue to be failed.

The date seems a bit arbitrary. I wonder how they arrived at that?
Title: Re: Headlights
Post by: UKjim on March 19, 2021, 02:33:20 PM
I can’t understand the logic behind the decision to allow older cars to have LED or HID headlights but not on newer cars, doesn’t make any sense to me. Surely the only way to pass or fail a car is on correct aim and beam pattern.