Author Topic: Electric cars  (Read 695594 times)

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #225 on: September 27, 2017, 11:26:22 AM »
There is no doubt that the charging infrastructure is letting EVs down, and until it is up to scratch then uptake of EVs will never reach its full potential (no pun intended). It is not in Nissan, GM, BMW, Ford, etcs own interest to invest in charging. They sell ICE cars and would be more than happy to do so foe ever and a day. As Tesla only sell EVs they have to offer charging support. If Ford suddenly found it could only sell EVs in the UK (as it will do after 2040) it will bend over backwards to provide charging infrastructure. The same will go for all the other ICE manufacturers.

guest5079

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #226 on: September 27, 2017, 11:42:42 AM »
If Mr Dyson is looking into the EV market and he is keeping it all close to his chest, can one blame him? When he developed his vacuum cleaner with it's cyclone he had to take on Electrolux and others who pinched his ideas.
We had two Dysons in earlier years and we had problems. We have just dumped the second Miele, which was conforming to the new EU regs it was useless. In the spring we bought one of Mr Dyson's DC40's and it is still lifting stuff that the Miele left behind and I can assure you this is not a dirty house
The DC40 is well inside the EU directive.

pb82gh3

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #227 on: September 27, 2017, 12:34:36 PM »
Almost all my battery powered devices at home take AA or AAA rechargeable batteries, so refreshing batteries is very quick and simple. I suppose it would be too much to hope that the motor industry could cooperate and standardise so that simple and quick battery swap in/out was achievable.

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #228 on: September 27, 2017, 02:27:18 PM »
If Mr Dyson is looking into the EV market and he is keeping it all close to his chest, can one blame him? When he developed his vacuum cleaner with it's cyclone he had to take on Electrolux and others who pinched his ideas.
We had two Dysons in earlier years and we had problems. We have just dumped the second Miele, which was conforming to the new EU regs it was useless. In the spring we bought one of Mr Dyson's DC40's and it is still lifting stuff that the Miele left behind and I can assure you this is not a dirty house
The DC40 is well inside the EU directive.

The 'Dyson' cyclone had been in use for a very long time in industry before it was 'discovered' by Sir James in the 1980's, the cyclone was patented by Robert Kent in 1917.  When Jimmy was a kid he used to visit a sawmill near his house and saw how they sucked up the sawdust and separated it, a similar device has been used in compressed air filters for ages to separate water out of compressed air. The other vacuum cleaner makers were making more profit out of replaceable  dust filters than they ever made out of selling the cleaners so were in no hurry to change their designs even though they were well aware of the cyclone principles (same thing now with printers, they virtually give the printers away just so you will have to buy their ink cartridges).

The other makers came out with competing cyclone cleaners very quickly because Sir Jimmy could not really patent something that he did not invent.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 03:23:31 PM by culzean »
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Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #229 on: September 27, 2017, 03:11:36 PM »
same thing now with printers, they virtually give test printers away just so you will have to buy their ink cartridges
I can vouch for this. I worked for Lexmark, in their cartridge production factory in Rosyth (before they closed down their UK operation because of our stringent health and safety culture). The cartridges we produced, for distribution with new printers, held enough ink to do the initial set up and print a couple of foolscap sheets. After that, you had to buy the cartridges made with Chanel No5, 50 year old malt, and unicorn urine.
The sale price of the printers doesn't quite recover the cost of manufacturing.

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #230 on: September 27, 2017, 05:11:56 PM »
There is no doubt that the charging infrastructure is letting EVs down, and until it is up to scratch then uptake of EVs will never reach its full potential (no pun intended). It is not in Nissan, GM, BMW, Ford, etcs own interest to invest in charging. They sell ICE cars and would be more than happy to do so foe ever and a day. As Tesla only sell EVs they have to offer charging support. If Ford suddenly found it could only sell EVs in the UK (as it will do after 2040) it will bend over backwards to provide charging infrastructure. The same will go for all the other ICE manufacturers.

Excellent summary of why we are where we are.

madasafish

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #231 on: September 27, 2017, 06:04:59 PM »
Almost all my battery powered devices at home take AA or AAA rechargeable batteries, so refreshing batteries is very quick and simple. I suppose it would be too much to hope that the motor industry could cooperate and standardise so that simple and quick battery swap in/out was achievable.

As battery capacity and performance are a - if not THE - KEY element in EV performace, any suggestion of a universal battery size/fittings is pie in the sky. Furthermore BIG EVs require bigger batteries than small EVs so battery interchangeability is not going to be easy.
And a standard battery layout would constrain makers of differing car types and sizes.
In my opinion, it is never going to happen.. Until batteries weigh under 10kgs and are under 10*10*10cms in size...

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #232 on: September 27, 2017, 06:14:27 PM »
Seven minutes and a few seconds into this video shows them fitting the "small" battery fitted to the Renault ZOE. You can appreciate why they are not readily changeable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxGauhTIRXQ

peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #233 on: September 28, 2017, 05:48:01 PM »
Almost all my battery powered devices at home take AA or AAA rechargeable batteries, so refreshing batteries is very quick and simple. I suppose it would be too much to hope that the motor industry could cooperate and standardise so that simple and quick battery swap in/out was achievable.

As battery capacity and performance are a - if not THE - KEY element in EV performace, any suggestion of a universal battery size/fittings is pie in the sky. Furthermore BIG EVs require bigger batteries than small EVs so battery interchangeability is not going to be easy.
And a standard battery layout would constrain makers of differing car types and sizes.
In my opinion, it is never going to happen.. Until batteries weigh under 10kgs and are under 10*10*10cms in size...

And, just in support of this, it isn't even possible to swap the 24kwh battery in the Nissan Leaf for a 30kwh - not through official channels anyway.

Wonder, if at some time in the future, there might be after market players entering the fray?

guest1372

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #234 on: September 28, 2017, 06:38:48 PM »
With the whole platform concept such as the MQB with VW/Skoda/Audi/Seat it should be theoretically possible to have a standard range of batteries but the rate of change is so rapid that a 2019 battery is likely to be much better than a 2017 version.  An engineering manager I know who is indirectly involved in analysing tear-downs of competitors cars tells me that the battery management, monitoring, cooling & protection takes up more room than the battery itself in a BMW i3.  It seems quite likely that these ancillaries will be so tightly integrated that it will take much more than just a cell swap to have a viable upgrade or renewal path.
--
TG

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #235 on: September 29, 2017, 09:14:04 AM »
As with pretty much anything, it is the early adopters that get the problems and take the financial hit. Wait till it has settled down and tech is sorted, soon the subsidised honeymoon period will be over and governments will show their hand on new tax regimes for EV, new real world prices for public charging points etc. My guess is road pricing will be introduced because governments can't have differential taxes for electricity used to charge EV at home and power used for domestic purposes unless they have two meters one for house and one for car, which would be pretty much impossible to enforce as people can charge (more slowly at 3kw from a regular 13amp socket), they cannot expect other electrical power users to subsidise EV users fuel.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 10:41:18 AM by culzean »
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peteo48

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #236 on: September 29, 2017, 11:48:01 AM »
I can certainly see some new tax regime being necessary once EVs take off in a big way. Good point about early adopters - some of the contortions they go through with short range EVs are simply unacceptable to a majority of people used to the convenience of ICE cars or, of course, hybrids. The rest of us depend on early adopters, they perform a useful service but I might have mentioned a trip from Warrington to a village just outside of Rotherham - 140 miles. I did some research, on a purely academic basis, to see if this trip was possible in an EV. It wasn't - end of.

Not only were there no chargers on either of the main trans Pennine routes to Sheffield but a zap-map check on using the M62 as an alternative (140 miles became 180 incidentally) revealed that the Ecotricity chargers at the service station I would have used were out of order on both carriageways. Yesterday, because I'd had a discussion with a mate who simply wouldn't believe that the trip was impossible, I got onto a site that plans a route for you including charge stops.

It indicated that I wouldn't reach my destination in a Nissan Leaf!!

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #237 on: September 29, 2017, 09:42:41 PM »
Edinburgh is introducing electric buses starting this Sunday. They will run on a city centre route, through the worst polluted part of the city.
The buses have a 130 mile range and can be recharged in 3 or 4 hours.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-41429207

culzean

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #238 on: September 30, 2017, 09:59:59 AM »
An ideal use for an EV due to stop start nature of buses, battery charge could also be topped up at bus stops if inductive coils were fitted in the road activated by RFI chips in the bus. Wonder how the passenger heating and cooling is powered, as buses are notorious for being either too hot or too cold, and windows always misted up inside on wet days.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Electric cars
« Reply #239 on: October 01, 2017, 10:34:36 PM »
Watched the Fully Charged review of the new Volkswagen E Golf - and I want one. It is a classic Golf but an EV to boot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9LZNQBfm9U

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