Author Topic: Cold Start  (Read 3560 times)

copelandbc

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Cold Start
« on: February 25, 2018, 05:51:10 PM »
My 2010 Jazz had trouble starting this morning. This is its first winter with me as owner. The battery was fine but it was spluttering and took 6 or 7 goes to start. It spluttered a bit more and then settled down OK. No problem starting later in the day. Any advice. It's the auto model.

culzean

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2018, 08:59:11 PM »
My 2010 Jazz had trouble starting this morning. This is its first winter with me as owner. The battery was fine but it was spluttering and took 6 or 7 goes to start. It spluttered a bit more and then settled down OK. No problem starting later in the day. Any advice. It's the auto model.

Do you know if it is original battery ?  The battery loses  capacity so slowly that it goes unnoticed,  but posters on here have cured seemingly unrelated problems like engine misfiring and electric power steering playing up by investing in a new battery.  If battery is original on a 2010 car it is due for replacement.  A battery on the way out may still turn over OK,  but a bit slower than it should and while sending power to starter motor ( over 200 amps) the terminal voltage drops too low to give a decent spark and keep fuel pump going as well.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 08:32:49 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

John Ratsey

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2018, 09:07:12 PM »
Turn on the headlights and see how much they dim when you run the starter motor.  Some dimming is to be expected but a lot indicates a battery past its best (but check that the connections to the battery are tight before comdemning it). Also pause a few seconds between turning on the ignition and running the starter so the fuel pump has time to build up pressure.
2022 HR-V Elegance, previously 2020 Jazz Crosstar

VicW

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2018, 02:46:10 PM »
Unless your radio is at high volume you can hear the fuel pump start, it's under the front seats. Wait until it stops and you know that the fuel rail is pressurised ready for a start.

Vic.

valleyjazz

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2018, 06:37:49 PM »
Ours struggles to start occasionally, only when low on fuel. The car is parked on a steep driveway, nose up,

copelandbc

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2018, 08:10:25 PM »
It has not happened since, but to be safe ,I've refilled with high octane fuel. Thanks for replies. I'll have the battery checked out.

Spencer69

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2018, 08:28:54 PM »
Am not the only 1 that was going to post a query on this aspect of cold starts. This morning, just before leaving for appt at The Christie (so, didn't need this to happen), went to start car and battery wasn't flat, as there was no 'click, click, click'.

It was certainly trying and had some juice, just not enough to start engine (admittedly, car had only done very short journeys for previous 6 or 7 days-less than 1/4 mile/stop and start-and last night was particularly cold, -4! It was not a case of having left any lights on etc. Managed to obtain help from pitch across from whre we live where we purchased car and this solved todays problem and further journeys today.

However, i am thinkng of the future, and since battery not totally dead, just needing a boost, what are peoples opinions of items such as portable car jump starter/power bank-these are the smaller versions about size of ipad and not the large heavy type about size and weight of actual car battery! Plenty of reviews say these smaller lighter types are strong/powerful enough to start car from dead battery & sems way to go with todays battery technology.

Interested in further views and opinions. Many thanks.

culzean

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2018, 08:50:28 PM »
Am not the only 1 that was going to post a query on this aspect of cold starts. This morning, just before leaving for appt at The Christie (so, didn't need this to happen), went to start car and battery wasn't flat, as there was no 'click, click, click'.

It was certainly trying and had some juice, just not enough to start engine (admittedly, car had only done very short journeys for previous 6 or 7 days-less than 1/4 mile/stop and start-and last night was particularly cold, -4! It was not a case of having left any lights on etc. Managed to obtain help from pitch across from whre we live where we purchased car and this solved todays problem and further journeys today.

However, i am thinkng of the future, and since battery not totally dead, just needing a boost, what are peoples opinions of items such as portable car jump starter/power bank-these are the smaller versions about size of ipad and not the large heavy type about size and weight of actual car battery! Plenty of reviews say these smaller lighter types are strong/powerful enough to start car from dead battery & sems way to go with todays battery technology.

Interested in further views and opinions. Many thanks.

You ignore warnings your battery gives you at your peril,  most of the people who call the AA / RAC to come out to start their car have had warnings like this,  but they ignored them.   Get a new Yuasa calcium or silver battery and it will give you long service. Put the money you are going to spend on a battery booster towards a decent new battery - its a no brainer.
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

Jocko

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2018, 09:14:41 PM »
A car that won't stop can still be driven! A car that won't start is only good for keeping chickens. After 50 years of motoring I know that at the first sign of battery problems, get a new battery.

jazzway

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Cold Start
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2018, 04:16:20 AM »
We also have a 2010 Jazz. Because i had no idea if it still had the original battery or not, i asked my brother in law (independent   garage) to put a new battery in with the last annual service in November. We didn’t have problems yet, but i wanted to wait for that neither. Better save than sorry.
Advice: Already given — get a new battery!

John A

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2018, 07:35:27 AM »
A new battery is a cheap fix, especially if you have to use taxis instead.

I've got one of those jump start packs, this one in fact:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DBPOWER-8000mAh-Portable-Emergency-Flashlight-Black-Yellow/dp/B076HG11SC/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1519716851&sr=8-9&keywords=dbpower+600a+18000mah+portable+car+jump+starter

enough power to jump start a 1.6 petrol Audi a few months ago

culzean

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2018, 08:29:20 AM »
A new battery is a cheap fix, especially if you have to use taxis instead.

I've got one of those jump start packs, this one in fact:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DBPOWER-8000mAh-Portable-Emergency-Flashlight-Black-Yellow/dp/B076HG11SC/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1519716851&sr=8-9&keywords=dbpower+600a+18000mah+portable+car+jump+starter

enough power to jump start a 1.6 petrol Audi a few months ago

A lot of the people who reviewed the item seemed to have continuing problems with their batteries and rather than have a new battery fitted they got one of these instead.  It undoubtedly helped some unlucky people who had left an accessory plugged in (although Honda take power off the accessory sockets when ignition off anyway) - but the rest seemed oblivious to the fact that to keep going flat is not normal behaviour for a decent battery  :o   I would have spent the £29 on  a battery charger and had a new battery - why don't battery manufacturers make the date of manufacture clearer on their battery ?
It is there but sometimes it is a code and normally stamped into plastic - so black on black lettering.

Having said that I am tempted to get one for motorbike as the battery is only about 9A/h to start a V twin - but then again I tend to look after batteries where to a lot of car people they are just a lump of plastic under the bonnet that keeps working with no attention,  until it doesn't  :-X
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 08:41:15 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

culzean

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2018, 08:39:58 AM »
It has not happened since, but to be safe ,I've refilled with high octane fuel. Thanks for replies. I'll have the battery checked out.

Battery tests are rarely satisfactory unless battery is really screwed up, they often do not draw enough current (over 200 amps) for long enough to prove things out.  Truth is any battery over 5 years old in UK is probably past its best,  in hot areas like Southern USA and middle east the batteries are lucky to get past 18 months old as the heat kills the chemistry,  we are classed as 'temperate' in UK and normally temperatures are below 30 degrees C which helps batteries live longer.  I remember some car makers used  to fit battery into the boot area to avoid hot under-bonnet conditions and greatly prolong battery lifetime,  some like Jaguar still do this.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2018, 09:25:55 AM by culzean »
Some people will only consider you an expert if they agree with your point of view or advice,  when you give them advice they don't like they consider you an idiot

guest5079

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2018, 09:07:33 AM »
When I left the interior light on while I  rectified a problem with the rear N/S window, that was enough to stop me starting the next day. It was only about an hour. Our Jazz still had the original battery and allegedly was in good condition. I tried the 'head light ' test and it didn't indicate a flat battery BUT what I have found out is the flashing lights on the binnacle and strange noises from around the fuse box do indicate a flat battery. The AA attended and the car was started immediately.
After 7.5 yrs there was no question but to replace that battery. Yuasa with a 4 yr warranty £55. No problem fitting it just do the radio code.
As the wise ones say, once the battery starts playing up it is time to replace it.
I think this week will indicate those batteries that are at the end of their life.

madasafish

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Re: Cold Start
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2018, 11:00:56 AM »
At first sign of battery problems, I attach our smart charger. That gets rid of the short term problems.

If you use a car on short journeys in winter , the battery will never fully recharge. Running a battery - lead/acid- like that means you are effectively shortening its life compared to a fully charged one.

By adopting a reime as described, our original  Yuasa battery in our 2003 Yaris lasted 11 years,ditto son's Yaris.

Most European batteries - especially Bosch ## - will be lucky to last 4 years as the inherent design/quality is poor. Yuasa for me for replacements.
I note my Jazz battery - now 6 years old still starts the car first time..

## My former Audi A4 battery lasted 4 years.. along with its aircon condenser, front shock absorbers , catalyst, and numerous other parts.. A tribute to German engineering (German tanks in WW2 were notoriously unreliable - more lost to breakdowns than enemy action So Audi are continuing a long established trend..As for BMW coil packs...)

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